Typical resolutions...

[Forsaken]

I know this is leaning towards an opinion question as to which settings work better, but I was just wondering using GKnot, what kind of resolution sizes can you guys who rip a lot of movies usually get? With 700meg size 1 cd.

[OvERaCiD23]

It all depends on the compressibility (but I assume you know that and are just asking in general). For 1 CD rips (DivX5, 128kbps MP3), I usually get somewhere between 528xXXX - 592xXXX. I WILL NOT go below 528xXXX. I usually go for 2 CD rips though (DivX5, 5.1 AC3), and end up with 640xXXX - 704xXXX.

Keep your CompTests around or above 60%, use a good resizer (Soft Bicubic or higher, stay away from bilinear when resizing in 2 directions), some good filters (Convolution3D, NoMoSmooth, FluxSmooth), and a reasonable audio track (128kbps MP3, 96kbps OGG), and you'll have good 1 CD rips.

[bkam]

I normally aim for about the resolution mentioned by OvERaCiD23 but lately I've been going a bit higher. It all depends on your movies. I encoded a couple a few days ago and was unsatisfied with the resolution on 1cd, opting for 640 on 2cds and maybe even some filtering (The Thin Red Line and The Shawshank Redemption I believe). Then I did the Superbit Gattaca, Psycho, and Blue Velvet and got super high compressibility so I squeezed out some extra resolution on one CD. I think Gattaca was around 640, Psycho was 608 because 640 was above the size of the DVD in one direction (is this what you mean by resizing in two directions? I never understood. I always just resize below so Gknot isn't red--figured higher size than DVD isn't better.) Blue Velvet was amazing, though. I normally use --alt preset 128 for the mp3, but I used --alt preset standard, included a 35mb encode of one of the extras (cut scenes or such), and did LanczosResize(704,304) and I think get 84% compressibility. Pretty dark movie, so sometimes you get lucky.

My general guidelines are 576 for a bottom limit, but just lately as I've been playing around to beat my previous best encodes. 512 is about the lowest I go for anything but musicals, because I mostly watch those for the music and don't mind bad visuals as much (plus they're so long!). In general the past 6 or so encodes, if I had to go below 608 with Neutral Bicubic, I went to 2cds. For most people I think that is somewhat overkill.

Oh, also my point for responding, was that you can possibly squeeze out a bit more quality by doing a better job of compressing the credits than Gknot does. I believe this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19789&highlight=credits+AND+preprocessing) has some good info on it. Make sure to set Bilinear for credits and often TemporalSmoother with high setting afterwards can get your credits between 1 and 3 megs, which will give your video slightly more space.

Otherwise I think OvERaCiD23 sums it up.

[Forsaken]

Ok, thanks for the reply guys. Shows me my 400 plus or minus res movies are too low. Figured as much. Now with all these extra filters you guys are talking about, do they come in the GKnot package, and useable from GKnot, or do I need something special?

I seem to have forgotten the other question I wanted to ask, oh well. Thanks for your help guys.

[bkam]

Originally posted by Forsaken
Ok, thanks for the reply guys. Shows me my 400 plus or minus res movies are too low. Figured as much. This is your personal preference, really. I would find that those resolutions lose too much detail, but if you're happy with them, they should be fine fine. If you are unsatisfied, though, then you can try our suggestions.

Now with all these extra filters you guys are talking about, do they come in the GKnot package, and useable from GKnot, or do I need something special? You have to download the .dlls into your Gknot or AviSynth directory and manually edit your AviSynth scripts (.avs files). Often the latest version of the filter can be found in the forums with a simple search. I will post you a few links to get started though.

I wrote a step-by-step thread about how to use c3d since it took me so long to figure out (being the idiot that I am) and you can read that here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40847).
Vlad's Convolution3d (http://hellninjacommando.com/con3d/)
Sansgrip's NoMoSmooth & FluxSmooth (http://www.jungleweb.net/~sansgrip/avisynth/)

Never used ogg but under guides on doom9's page you can find instructions.

[Forsaken]

Ok, that was a big help thanks. Both those filters you posted are noise filters right? So do I just set the noise filters in gKnot to none, and then edit my AVS file? And use the Simple resize filter in gKnot with C3d after the resize for best compressability?

I guess I don't understand the resize filter deal enough yet to fully grasp the before and after arguments.

[bkam]

Yeah, C3d and FluxSmooth are both temporal-spatial smoothers (they do both).

Settings I commonly use are Convolution3d(preset="movieHQ") and Convolution3d(preset="movieLQ"), or I think Convolution3d(0,8,8,8,8,8,0) is popular for heavy noise.

FluxSmooth(x,y): x is temporal, y is spatial, I usually put x to 5-10 and y to 0-5 because x is less noticable and makes it less smooth.

You're right about setting the noise filter to none and editing the avs manually. However, SimpleResize is not recommended. I just explained what I know of resize filters in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42923). Maybe that will help. The best for compressibility is Bilinear, but it will make the picture much softer and probably blur a little so it's not preferred unless you really need the compressibility (although, if you encode credits separately, it's definitely good to use bilinear). Soft Bicubic is good if you don't mind a little softer to get higher compressibility but Neutral is sort of the generally agreed on "best trade-off."

Basically:
Smooth before resize = lower compressibility gains (it rises, just not as much), slower encoding times, but better quality.
Smooth after resize = higher compressibility gains, faster encoding times, but less quality.

This is because resizing will cost you some detail even with the sharpest resizer. If you smooth before resizing you're applying the smoother to the source image, if you smooth after you're applying to the already degraded (to some extent) smaller image. Someone correct me if any of that is wrong.

[Forsaken]

Ok man thanks for all the help, I'll go ahead and try those. I think that's all the questions I have for now. ;)

[OvERaCiD23]

Originally posted by bkam
Basically:
Smooth before resize = lower compressibility gains (it rises, just not as much), slower encoding times, but better quality.
Smooth after resize = higher compressibility gains, faster encoding times, but less quality.

This is because resizing will cost you some detail even with the sharpest resizer. If you smooth before resizing you're applying the smoother to the source image, if you smooth after you're applying to the already degraded (to some extent) smaller image. Someone correct me if any of that is wrong.

That's true, but the quality difference is quite negligable. Putting the noise filters before resizing drops my encoding rate by 2-4fps (P3 900mhz), so I usually opt to put it after my resizing (some circumstances I do put it before, if I want "super-quality" :D ). Compressiblity gains are only 1-2% as well. It's basically your call, but putting it before resizing is the "correct" method.

[bkam]

Thanks for the info overacid, I was under the impression that the difference was slightly more dramatic.

[hakko504]

If you are doing heavy filtering (2 or more filters) it can be a good idea to edit the avs so one filter is applied before the resize and the rest after. That is usually an acceptable tradeoff between quality and speed.

[ReTroAcTive]

the resolution i use depends on the movies compressiblity and how many cds i want to use to back them up. i almost always use a 60% on the compressiblity check only going under, to 56% at the lowest, when i have to to get it to fit on one cd.
i like to stay with 1cd for any movie not longer then 2 hours, though this isnt a rule. i will go to 2 cds if i really like the movie and want a really clean rip. i, unlike most people around here, dont mind going below the 640xXXX resolution if needs be to get the compessiblity check up to around 60%. ide rather have a clean clear picture at full screen then the detail i lose.

[Refwhett]

bkam: I am a total newbie and I read your advice on how to use filter with avisynth and gknot. But whenever I try to edit the avi script generated by gknot and then adding it manualy to the encoder queue like you said it encodes the credits just fine and then when i starts the main movie passes it is done in 6 secinds or so.
I get an exception error and an integer overfolw error.
what's wrong?
the only weord thing I noticed when reviewing the log is that it says
"assomed movie has 0 frames" while the credits seem to have to many frames.

[jggimi]

Welcome to the forum, Refwhett. I hope you find it helpful.

Check if the .avs scripts you create are valid. Try the "Preview" button or try opening the .avs files in any AVI player. For example, if you are using the Convolution3d filter without the .dll plugin, you will not get any video from an .avs script.

If the .avs files are valid, and the proper length, then post your _Gknot.log file. It's possible that you have a procedural problem that could be uncovered in review.

[Refwhett]

Thanks jggimi,

The .avs file is fine, I played it with zoom and all was well.
I added the full log file here. Hope someone can see what I'm doing wrong. If I don't change anything and just follow the gknot guide everything is usually fine but I wanted to try and get even better results.... didn't work so far :confused:

I transcoded the ac3 file seperatley wth besweet (just to try it out)

2/1/2003 11:12:31 PM: Job "Movie 1" started.

o DivX5-Single, Quality 40%: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast_cred.avs
o DivX5-First Pass: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.avs
o DivX5-Second Pass: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.avs
o Append Credits.
o Delete Intermediate Files.
End of Job 2 (Movie 1).
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gordian Knot 0.27.0.13
Encoding Job Data:

Type: EncD5_Both_CreditsSep
Number: 2
Name: Movie 1
Platform: WinXP (5.1.2600).2

Files:
VirtualDubExe: C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\virtualdub\Virtualdub.exe
NandubExe: C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\nandub\Nandub.exe
AviFinal: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.avi
AviMovie: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast_Movie.avi
AviCredits: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast_Credits.avi
MovieFS: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.avs
CreditsFS: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast_cred.avs
Log : M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.log
Stats: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.stats
Ecf : M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.ecf

Options:
Quality/DRF: 40
CreditsStart: 0
UseEcf: 1
CreditsIVTC: 0
CreditsAppend: 1
DeleteInterm.: 1
EnforceBitrate:0
AntiShit: 0

Calculator:
VideoSize: 614058 kbyte.
Audio1Size: 93057 kbyte.
Audio2Size: 0 kbyte.
Overhead: 9684 kbyte.
AviSize: 716800 kbyte (700 mbyte).
FilesSize: 0 kbyte.
TotalSize: 716800 kbyte (700 mbyte).
Interleaving: vbrmp3
Bitrate: 818 k(=1000)Bits/s
Frames: 153698
FPS: 25.000
Duration: 1:42:28
Quality: 0.127 bits/(pixel*frame).
CompCheck3: 0.000 bits/(pixel*frame).
CompCheck5: 0.212 bits/(pixel*frame).
DivX5BiDirect: 1
DivX5GMC: 1
DivX5QuartPel: 0
DivX5PsyVis: 0
Resolution: 672 x 384

Audio 1:
mode: Just Mux Source File.
sourceFile: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.mp3
wavFile: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast.wav
mp3File: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast_1.mp3
azid: ""
lame: ""
delay: 0
interval: 2
preload: 500
mux: 1
recalc: 1
deleteWav: 1

Audio 2:
none.

11:12:31 PM: Audio 1, determined: 93057 kb
11:12:31 PM: Audio 1, calc: 93057 kb
11:12:31 PM: New Bitrate for Movie = 818 k(=1000)Bits/s

Adding this script to C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\virtualdub\VirtualDub.jobs:

// $job "DivX4 Single Pass"
// $input "M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast_cred.avs"
// $output "M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast_Credits.avi"
// $state 0
// $start_time 0 0
// $end_time 0 0
// $script

VirtualDub.Open("M:\\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\\VIDEO_TS\\fast_cred.avs",0,0);
VirtualDub.audio.SetSource(0);
VirtualDub.audio.SetMode(0);
VirtualDub.audio.SetInterleave(1,0,0,0,0);
VirtualDub.audio.SetClipMode(1,1);
VirtualDub.audio.SetConversion(0,0,0,0,0);
VirtualDub.audio.SetVolume();
VirtualDub.audio.SetCompression();
VirtualDub.video.SetDepth(24,24);
VirtualDub.video.SetMode(1);
VirtualDub.video.SetFrameRate(0,1);
VirtualDub.video.SetIVTC(0,0,-1,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetRange(0,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetCompression(0x78766964,0,10000,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetCompData(308,"GAEAAACgDwDQBwAACgAAABQAAAAsAQAADAAAAAIAAAAFAAAAAQAAAJABAAAAAAAAAAAAAB4AAABkAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAyAAAAAAAAAAAQAACamZmZmZnJP5qZmZmZmck/QAAAAAEAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIACAADgAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOA/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAEAAAD/////BAAAAGVtcHR5AGM6XHRlc3QuZGl2eABlbXB0eS5tdgBt");
VirtualDub.video.filters.Clear();
VirtualDub.subset.Delete();
VirtualDub.SaveAVI("M:\\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\\VIDEO_TS\\fast_Credits.avi");
VirtualDub.Close();

// $endjob
//
//--------------------------------------------------
// $done

11:12:31 PM: Started DivX5-Single, Quality 40%: M:\THE_FAST_AND_THE_FURIOUS\VIDEO_TS\fast_cred.avs
11:19:37 PM: Finished DivX5-Single, Quality 40%. Duration: 7 minutes, 5 seconds.
11:19:37 PM: Assumed: Main Movie has 0 Frames.
11:19:37 PM: Assumed: Credits Part has 153698 Frames.
11:19:37 PM: Credits Size = 4392Kb
11:19:37 PM: New Bitrate for Movie = 124859699 k(=1000)Bits/s
11:19:37 PM: *************************************
11:19:37 PM: EXCEPTION: Integer overflow
11:19:37 PM: EXCEPTION: Encoder Thread Terminated.
11:19:37 PM: *************************************
Total Encoding Time: 7 minutes, 6 seconds.
2/1/2003 11:19:37 PM: Job "Movie 1" finished.

[jggimi]

The only thing *I* can see is that it looks like the credits start point was not set, as under options I sawCreditsStart: 0But if the start point isn't set, then the trim options panel in the Save&Encode pop-up window would be greyed-out, and you wouldn't be able to set Trim to "both".

It looks like you are setting trim filters manually in the .avs, rather than setting the trim option in Gknot's window. Note:11:19:37 PM: Assumed: Main Movie has 0 Frames.
11:19:37 PM: Assumed: Credits Part has 153698 Frames.This is due to the credit-start point not being set, or set to frame #0. Then:11:19:37 PM: Credits Size = 4392Kb
11:19:37 PM: New Bitrate for Movie = 124859699 k(=1000)Bits/s Gknot has calculated a new bitrate for 0 frames. You're getting the failure later on because the maximum bitrate for DivX 5 is 10000 k.

The main movie, fast.avs, should end at the set-credits-start point, and the credits, fast_cred.avs, should begin there, through the setting of the trim filter. If you've set the trim filters manually, just make sure you set the credit start point in Gknot.

You could also disable the "recalculate bitrate" option. But I don't recommend it. Even though you have a known size .mp3 that you could plug in to the Audio A sizing, your end-credits are (or were) an unknown size.

[Refwhett]

hmmm, I see you're point.
I don't remember what happened with the credits but I know that I didn't trim them manually in the avs, maybe I forgot to set them in the initial avs I created with gknot. But then I wouldn't even have a *_credits.avs file...
I'll give it another go and pay attention to the trim values in the avs.
Thanks for the help!!

[Refwhett]

ok I manged to fix that problem. but....
I don't understand something.
I prepare rips following all the steps form the guide to their word.
But I can only get decent comp. test results on very low resulotions <500. So I though "Ok, I have to add some filters".
Now that I managed to get that going it seems to make things even worse and I get better comp. test results without the filters.

I tried using Convolution3D and Fluxsmoother.
Am I missing out on something again? How can I get my quality up, with out having to go for 3cd's?
This is very frustrating :confused:

[Evil Andy]

Can you post us your avs files?

[Refwhett]

Well this one isn't the one I had troubel with before but it's identical. (I didn't not trim the credits on this one but it's just an example of how I tryes to implement the filters).

#
# Created with Gordian Knot
#
# http://gknot.doom9.org
#
# PLUGINS
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\Convolution3D.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\FluxSmooth.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\decomb.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\IVTC.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\Avisynth_Spatial.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\GreedyHMA.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\TomsMoComp.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\WINNT\System32\vobsub.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\SimpleResize.dll")
#
# SOURCE
mpeg2source("M:\INNERSPACE\VIDEO_TS\inner.d2v")
#
# TRIM
#trim(startframe,endframe)
#
# IVTC
#Telecide().Decimate(5)
# or use
#IVTC(44,11,95)
#GreedyHMA(1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0)
#
# DEINTERLACING (1)
#FieldDeinterlace()
#TomsMoComp(1,5,1)
#
# CROPPING
crop(0,75,718,433)
#
# DEINTERLACING (2)
#SeparateFields().SelectEven()
# or maybe
#GreedyHMA(1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0)
#
#
# SUBTITLES
#VobSub("FileName")
#
convolution3d(preset="movieHQ")
# RESIZING
BicubicResize(480,208,0,0.5)
fluxsmooth(7,3)
#
# DENOISING: choose one combination (or none)
# 1) little noise (fast)
#TemporalSmoother(2,1)
#
# 2) medium noise (slow)
#SpatialSoftenMMX(1,4,6,false,false,4,4,6,8)
#TemporalSmoother(2)
#
# 3) heavy noise (very slow, you have been warned)
#SpatialSoftenMMX(2,4,6,false,false,4,4,6,8)
#TemporalSmoother(3)
#SpatialSoftenMMX(1,4,6,false,false,4,4,6,8)
#
# BORDERS
#AddBorders(left,top,right,bottom)
#
# COMPRESSIBILITY CHECK
# !!!!Snip Size now has to be 14 for use in GKnot!
#SelectRangeEvery(280,14)
#
# FOOL CCEnc
#ResampleAudio(44100)