Windows Video 9 looks VERY good to me

[Psymaster]

I don't know about your tests, but mine are showning that is clearly better than DivX/XviD. It's a pity I won't be encoding movies with it because I want them in plain avi or ogm format. If someone could change the codec so it shows up in VirtualDub and play in avi and ogm muxed with any sound format we want it would be...... BIG.

But probably it has some protection so we might want a good hacker for this. Isn't this how DivX came around in the first place?

[temporance]

Originally posted by Psymaster
If someone could change the codec so it shows up in VirtualDub and play in avi and ogm muxed with any sound format we want it would be...... BIG.

But probably it has some protection so we might want a good hacker for this. Isn't this how DivX came around in the first place?
IMHO, it would be better spending time and energy developing hdot264 so that it is fast enough to use. Has anyone tried comparing WMBV9 and hdot264 for quality at a given bitrate? My money's on hdot264.

[Tommy Carrot]

Finally i was able to test wmv9, thanks to Nic's little encoder.

I have to say, i'm not so impressed. The encoding speed is about three times slower than xvid, and i cannot say the quality is definetaly better. In fact, at higher bitrates, i find xvid to the better. It keeps much more details at the same bitrate (i used quality based with both codec, trying to matching the bitrates). I don't know how can microsoft hype that this is twice more efficient, often this is not even _as_ efficient as xvid, at least on higher (900-1000 kbit) bitrates.

At lower bitrates, this is more pleasing to the eye, indeed, but because the more advanced postprocessing, and not the codec itself. Xvid still keeps more details, only WM9 is able to filter out the artifacts, and xvid is not. Without postfiltering, WM9 is really not so impressive. (if you convert wmv to huffyuvved avi with Tmpgenc, the results is not filtered, and has the same blocks as mpeg4, even the qpel artifacts are visible.)

I agree h.264 is much more interesting.

EDIT: I used chroma motion and qpel, no bframes.

[CruNcher]

for me it reduces macroblocks a little bit better then XviD but as allways with WMV it's bluring the picture again not that much as in WMV8 but it's visible

[?¿öM¿?]

I always used to say "the best possible quality, whatever the time it takes". I wanted to test out WME9 itself, so I dragged one of my 100%q encodes out of archive and set WME9 to work. I am sure the results are probably going to be good, WHEN I GET THEM! It has been encoding at 1-2FPS for a long time. I should just abort it, but I am too stubborn. The first pass was alright, only a little slower than DivX, but this second pass is ridiculous. Perhaps my problem is related using DivX5 encoded avi as input? I haven't tried nic's little program yet, will do that after this one finally finishes :(
Thanks m$:sly: I think I've learnt that "best" is not always best.:D

EDIT: This is on a P4 2.2 w/512MB ram.

[sam_b]

Don't test hdot264 whatever you do :D

[Tommy Carrot]

Originally posted by sam_b
Don't test hdot264 whatever you do :D

But at least hdot264 is at pre-alpha stage, wmv9 is final. :D

[amirm]

Originally posted by Psymaster
I don't know about your tests, but mine are showning that is clearly better than DivX/XviD. It's a pity I won't be encoding movies with it because I want them in plain avi or ogm format. If someone could change the codec so it shows up in VirtualDub and play in avi and ogm muxed with any sound format we want it would be...... BIG.

But probably it has some protection so we might want a good hacker for this. Isn't this how DivX came around in the first place?

Thanks for the kind words onthe codec. But no need to hack our codec to get AVI support. We will be doing this ourselves. Next month, we hope to release a VCM version of WMV 9 that should let you see it in just about any app that supporst VfW (like the ones you list). And yes, you can also use it in AVI and with other audio codecs if you like.

Amir
Microsoft

[trbarry]

Thanks for the kind words onthe codec. But no need to hack our codec to get AVI support. We will be doing this ourselves. Next month, we hope to release a VCM version of WMV 9 that should let you see it in just about any app that supporst VfW (like the ones you list). And yes, you can also use it in AVI and with other audio codecs if you like.

Well, then I guess I'll stop complaining and try it again next month.

Now if you could just accelerate the delivery of hardware accelerated playback ..... ;)

- Tom

[ookzDVD]

I will start to use WMV9 if they provide the vfw so I could control
the setting from VirtualDub, lol ;)

[Psymaster]

Originally posted by amirm
Thanks for the kind words onthe codec. But no need to hack our codec to get AVI support. We will be doing this ourselves. Next month, we hope to release a VCM version of WMV 9 that should let you see it in just about any app that supporst VfW (like the ones you list). And yes, you can also use it in AVI and with other audio codecs if you like.

Amir
Microsoft

That's wonderful! A really great move from microsoft this one. I suppose the same is true for wma?

[temporance]

Originally posted by amirm
But no need to hack our codec to get AVI support. We will be doing this ourselves.Why, have you lost the source code?!?! ;)

Seriously though, I guess VBR WMA in AVI is out of the question due to the problems of VBR audio in AVI files. This is a shame, I like the WM audio formats and it would be nice if they were more widely available.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by temporance Seriously though, I guess VBR WMA in AVI is out of the question due to the problems of VBR audio in AVI files. This is a shame, I like the WM audio formats and it would be nice if they were more widely available.

.. dont worry, there is already a codec ID for WMA V1 and V2 in our list of natively supported codecs ;) ...

[bond]

Originally posted by amirm
But no need to hack our codec to get AVI support. We will be doing this ourselves. Next month, we hope to release a VCM version of WMV 9 that should let you see it in just about any app that supporst VfW (like the ones you list). And yes, you can also use it in AVI and with other audio codecs if you like.

Amir
MicrosoftThese are really really really good news!

Perhaps thats because billy boy is reading our forum? perhaps amir... :eek:
[sorry for that ;) ]

[NeVeRLiFt]

Originally posted by amirm
Thanks for the kind words onthe codec. But no need to hack our codec to get AVI support. We will be doing this ourselves. Next month, we hope to release a VCM version of WMV 9 that should let you see it in just about any app that supporst VfW (like the ones you list). And yes, you can also use it in AVI and with other audio codecs if you like.

Amir
Microsoft

Wow! This is nice to hear but can you comment on one thing?

Will we beable to control the settings of wmv9 in Virtualdub for example?


Cool to see Microsoft and RealVideo doing all they are doing and being so involved...

:eek:



Edit: Does this mean Avery Lee can add support in Virtualdub so it can edit wmv9 files? ;)


Edit: There is talk that ASFTools can edit wmv9...

[The Belgain]

Will we be able to use 5.1 wma in any container and on OSes other than WinXP? I assume that it's a VBR codec and so not suitable for avi's, but it should be ok in ogm's no?

I have to say that 5.1 wma at 192 sounds about as good as 96 or maybe even 128 mp3 (which is impressive given it has 6 channels rather than 2) and would finally make 1CD rips with surround sound a possibility.

[Sirber]

Can someone post some screenshots? I never saw WM9...

[TheXung]

Originally posted by Sirber
Can someone post some screenshots? I never saw WM9...

I would if I knew how to capture the screenshots.

[Neo Neko]

First off I would like to say WM9 has some prommise. But it's performance is well below the par Microsoft hyped. Amir that link you gave me to the independant WM9/MPEG4 comaprrison was quite hillarious. They were using the QT6 MPEG4 encoder. Which anyone here will tell you is the worst MPEG4 codec on the market today. If WM9 could not have beat QT6 MPEG4 by a wide margin Microsoft would have been a laughingstock. It was quite an unfair comparrison as well. Poor QT6 which has no B frames or Qpel period as it is simple profile only against WM9 which makes use of lots of advanced simple profile features and more. :D It was a true apples to oranges comparrison.

On my tests with broadcast material WM9 performed on par with Divx 5 and the Xvid development compilees in pretty much every way except encoding time. WM9 was hella slow to encode. It was sad. All that extra time for something that looked at best as good as the competition or possibly worse. I don't care about 1080p content because by the time it gets common place WM9 will be outdated. WM9 is worlds better than WM8. But I have yet to see it perform clearly better than the infant MPEG4 codecs still in development like Divx and Xvid. They both have a long way to go before they encompase the MPEG4 spec, but WM9 is final. :D

@Amir
So Microsoft is releasing VFW and ACM versions of WM9? And they will not be format locked? I'll believe it when I see it. But I will say that when it happens it will go a long way to reparing Microsoft's image in the eyes of many people. But I will ask you again. When will Microsoft be releasing decoder binaries for other OS? You are releasing PPC BSD decoders for it. A simple recompile of the relevant decoder libraries and they should work under any *NIX environment. Let the coders of those environments and platforms come up with the GUI. All anyone is really asking is simple playback. Saying that all they simply have to do is buy the DEV kit wont cut it either. You and I both know that the chances of something like this happening for Linux, BeOS, BSD, or QNX is slim to none. The only remotly Linux related company that I could see purchasing the dev kit would be Sony. But I think that it is highly unlikely and if they did and they made a linux version it would be a MIPS Linux version for the PS2 etc. A simple decoder. C'mon man you guys can swing it. It will not be the end of Microsoft nor will it put a dent in dev kit sales. It would however make the format more attractive.

Still@Amir
I assume that the ACM codec will not include support for encoding more than two channels or Lossless WMA. Correct?

Anywhoo. Amir you guys did not do to bad. The codec is better whan WMV8. But I still have serious concerns if it will be able to keep up with the MPEG4 codecs at the rate they are progressing. You guys did manage to 1 up the MPEG-LA for licensing fees. Unfortuantly for most of us here that means very little as we have not been paying many or any MPEG4 related license fees. It will however make the codec a bit more commercially attractive.

[midiguy]

what's going on? Real Media and MS are doing some things I never expected! Has there been some sort of crazy change in the market for pc video recently or something like that? why all of a sudden huge changes are happening like this?

PS: I'm very high right now, sorry if my post don't make sense

[Atamido]

I didn't see it posted earlier, so here it is.

The WM9 Encoder SDK is available for download from Microsofts website here. (http://download.microsoft.com/download/3/4/2/342475bf-a953-4091-b879-83dff8f2f909/WMEncoderSDK.exe)

[Sirber]

I encoded the begining of "Tanguy", and the output screen is Green. I like green but not that much ;).

In my heart, RV9 is still the king.

[Son Gokou]

I just downloaded the "Windows Media Encoder" yesterday, and while I can't say I've tried encoding film content with it, I was so impressed with the results as far as anime. If you encode anime like me with DivX or Xvid you know some anime can give you a lot of trouble. Particularly, Dragonball Z, damn blocky anime. Anyway, on with the screenshots, keep in mind these screenshots were taken in full screen mode, very basic settings with deinterlace and a 1500 bitrate:

http://www.webspawner.com/users/dragon142/sample1.jpg
http://www.webspawner.com/users/dragon142/sample2.jpg
http://www.webspawner.com/users/dragon142/sample3.jpg
http://www.webspawner.com/users/dragon142/sample4.jpg

I was truly impressed, I'm still such a newbie with this I don't even know how to combine the audio and video streams, to say nothing of adding subtitles to my video (rather I know all about that with DivX, but Windows Media is only usable by it's own tools and won't load in programs like VirtualDub). If someone could tell me I'd appreciate it. I'm just glad to have found something that encodes anime as easily as DivX encodes film type content.

Edit: Nevermind I've got how to combine the audio and video, stupid me. However I could still use some help with the subtitles.

[Sirber]

[QUOTE... very basic settings with deinterlace and a 1500 bitrate:
[/QUOTE]

Every codec looks great at 1500 kbps :p, the real fun is at ~500 kbps or less. I encoded my futurama (MPEG(250Mb, 29.9 FPS) -> RV9(40Mb, 15 FPS)) at 250kbps including a 32kbps audio stream, and it looks like the original mpeg.