Convolution3d (preset="movieLQ") good enough for Blade Runner CC Laserdisc?

[niggenz]

Hi everyone,

Question for the C3D experts out there. I am going to get my Blade Runner Critierion Collection laserdisc to transferred to DVD-R. My question is if the following preset

Convolution3d (preset="movieLQ")
#Movie Low Quality (noisy DVD source)
#Alias for Convolution3D (0, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)


adequate for noise reduction for an S-Video laserdisc transer.

Thanks in advance,
-niggenz

[niggenz]

......errrr. Actually, is that the preset I should be using for LD sources?

[lancer]

if I were you I wouldn't capture via s-video. off my pioneer 515 the quality on svideo is bloody awful but your mileage my vary. composite usually gives the best color values from which to capture from.

I use LQ convolution as well as hiQ. it depends on the quality of the initial capture in huffyuv. for something dark like bladerunner you might need to run the low quality one to make sure it can handle the dark scenes.

[niggenz]

Cool. Yeah, for some strange reason, S-Video output on some of the Pioneer LD models is worse than composite. Thanks for the info. I will now give it a test run.

[NuclearFusi0n]

is LD progressive?

[lancer]

if it's a NTSC disc what is on the disc is progressive but the player does a 3:2 pulldown to give 29.97 NTSC output so you have to decomb back to a 24fps progressive source as part of your process.

if its PAL you don't have to do this.

[niggenz]

lancer,

Video stored on LD is progressive? I was already planning on using decomb, but what you have stated is a revelation to me. Are you telling me that an LD player does the telecining and that the video on LD is 24 fps?

[b0b0b0b]

Aren't LD's analog? So wouldn't the player be doing as much "3:2 pulldown" as a VCR?

[scmccarthy]

Are you telling me that an LD player does the telecining and that the video on LD is 24 fps?
DVD doesn't have to store repeating fields and uses repeat first field and top fields first flags to do telecining on the fly. This avoids storing identical fields. LD is digital like DVD and is simililar in many ways, but I do not know if LD uses rff and tff flags too.

Stephen

[edit] Even if the source on a DVD is originally 24 fps progressive, some of the repeating fields might be hard coded on the DVD while others let the player use the flags to make it all interlaced. The challenge of getting a progressive stream from both DVDs and LDs is that they are made assuming the player will have to interlace or telecide everything anyway. As progressive TVs become more common, I think mastering techniques for DVD is changing for the better.

[niggenz]

LD video is digital?

[lancer]

from my understanding laserdisc is an analogue source on a disc. bear in mind that laserdiscs really date from the late 70's which is all pre digital.

progressive comes into it because in my case I am doing star wars from LD.

the footage is stored 23.976 fps progressiveon the disc and the player does a 3:2 pulldown and interlaces it to 29.97 fps for playback as aTV compatible NTSC signal.

thereforeI have to decomb to get it back to it's original 23.976fps.

I could just leave it but by decombing I save 5 fps and can therefore have a higher bit rate.

[Antti]

>the footage is stored 23.976 fps progressiveon the disc and the
>player does a 3:2 pulldown and interlaces it to 29.97 fps for

I doubt this. LD material is analog, and there simply isn't a analog video standard for 23.976 fps material. Doing a 3:2 pulldown would also require field memory in the player, and it's outside LD specs.

Pulldown is made beforehand, and video on disc is 29.97 telecined.

[scmccarthy]

analog -- digital, 23.976 -- 29.97, both are beside the point.

assuming analog 29.97, the remaining question is, was it recorded that way originally for TV broadcast or LaserDisc, or was it telecined from 24fps film. Because as long as it is telecined material, then doing IVTC makes sense. That's what IVTC means, inverse telecine.

I have no idea how one would capture a laserdisc movie or what form the data would take, but if it was telecined, that means that for every ten fields, only eight of them are unique. If you can toss out the duplicate fields, you can reduce the reduce the frame rate accordingly. Even on a DVD, sometimes the telecining is hardcoded and looks like video when it still is really telecined material.

Stephen

[edit] I just realized that if a laserdisc cannot be ripped like a DVD, even if it stores the movies digitally and even if the player did do pulldown, it would not matter unless someone has a laserdisc player with digital output for a digital TV. What is stored on the disc and the format output by the player might differ, but all that matters is the output from the player. We care how CDs and DVDs store their data only because computers have DVD drives.

[theReal]

Why don't you just keep 29.97 fps when you're encoding to DVD anyways?

I have yet seen only one DVD made from LD (Schindler's List) and it looked quite good the way it was encoded (29.97 fps telecined).
I converted it to Divx though, so I had to ivtc it - but it was a lot of work and I still overlooked one small scene where the ivtc wasn't working properly...
For encoding to DVD, I guess I'd just leave it 29.97 fps...

[Aktan]

You IVTC cause it may have originally be that way, since there is less frames there will be more bits per frame at the same video size.

[theReal]

You IVTC cause it may have originally be that way, since there is less frames there will be more bits per frame at the same video size.Of course - but what I meant is: if the ivtc is very difficult so you might get some bad scenes (even if it's only one) then I'd prefer not to ivtc it if I can use high DVD bitrates (and only then).
You absolutely have to ivtc for compressing to lower bitrates (Divx, SVCD) but DVD bitrates should be high enough to provide good quality even with a 29.97fps telecined movie.