very interesting test results

[jankster]

Hi all,

I was experimenting with ways to exactly hit a target file size using CCE in 1 pass. User "Bach" responded with some related links to other threads on the same subject, one of which was viewing encode results with "Bitrate Viewer". I encoded the same m2v source (average bitrate of 5350) with different software set to VBR and 90% of original bitrate, and scanned approx the first 20,000 frames in Bitrate Viewer, then exported the result as a Excel sheet. The exported results show the bitrate at 1 second intervals. The total number of seconds scanned is different for each test, because I stopped Bitrate Viewer at random times, so only look at how the numbers are grouped, not the total count of the columns. I sorted, grouped, and counted the frames by their bitrate (left most column). The results as shown below.

Bitrate--SourceDVD--CCE_1-pass--CCE_multipass--Rempeg2--Premiere6.5
<2000--------1----------1-------------1----------2----------1
2-3000------41----------9-----------128---------50---------15
3-4000-----186--------744-----------453--------166--------514
4-5000-----263---------75-----------198--------240--------182
5-6000-----235----------0------------45--------142----------2
6-7000-----112----------0-------------3---------56----------0
7-8000------43----------0-------------0---------23----------0
>8000-------27----------0-------------0----------2----------0

In terms of reproducing the exact same "bitrate dynamic range" of the original DVD, ReMPEG2 did the best. Viewing the waveforms of the original to ReMPEG2 was the same, only smaller. Using CCE in 1-pass mode is more like CBR. Premiere's Mpeg exporter also produces flat line like waveforms in Bitrate Viewer. CCE in multipass (set it to 2 passes) shifted alot of frames to the low end.

Bottom line is I never will use CCE in 1-pass mode again. Rempeg2 seems to be the best in this test, but it is SLOW (unless you only have 1-2 DVD's to encode over night, time does not matter then). Rempeg2 also corrupts ~(1 out of 10) encodes, so you have to scan the results.

It would be interesting to use this method on CCE in multi-pass with pass count set to 2/3/4. Maybe later.

User "Bach", please respond to my test results.

Thanks

[jankster]

Bach,

No I was not looking at the files. I trans/encoded to 90% of source. Looking at the files (WinDVD4, ATI AIW8500DV video card, 19" monitor set to 32bit depth) I could not see much difference. What I could see is "mosquitos" around text in the ReMPEG2 file not seen in the CCE file (2-pass, min-0, max-9000, avg-4854, quality 25). I even took same frame 32 bit screen snaps through WinDVD4 of "blue skys" and detailed color images. Basically the same.

I'm going to go from 90% to 60% bitrate reduction and try again, this will be a better test.

I now understand that the goal of DVD-9 to DVD-5 is not to evenly reduce the bitrate across the board (Rempeg2), but to reallocate the frame bits in the best manner for the overall reduced bitrate.

Vacation days are great, just taken it easy, and playing around.

[jankster]

More test results.

CCE is better than ReMPEG2 hands down (I know everyone says this, but I just wanted to see myself). At a 60% reduction of average bitrate, ReMPEG2 starts to pixelate badly on sharp contrasting edges, and quick changes in solid/blank areas. CCE looks as good as source. However in "normal" video scenes they look the same. Even took some screen snaps to confirm.

Test source data was a 213MB M2V file from a DVD with a AVG bit rate of 5020. CCE version 2.64 values where "MPEG2-multipass", min=0, max=9000, avg=3012, quality=25, no anti-noise.

Since CCE is better, I did some testing on multipass results. Used Bitrate Viewer on the same 213MB M2V and ran it thru CCE multipass at 1, 2, and 3 passes. Exported Bitrate Viewer to Excel and compiled. Results below. The 3rd pass doesn't seem to do much.


Time--------1pass---------2pass---------3pass

3-----------902-----------897-----------897
4-----------1284----------1347----------1347
5-----------1195----------1201----------1192
6-----------1393----------1370----------1375
7-----------1492----------1436----------1438
8-----------1280----------1232----------1234
9-----------1316----------1274----------1274
10----------1733----------1706----------1710
11----------1674----------1644----------1647
12----------1663----------1627----------1636
13----------1368----------1326----------1323
14----------1606----------1534----------1536
15----------1945----------1908----------1908
16----------2859----------1332----------1332
17----------1355----------1270----------1269
18----------1972----------1497----------1497
19----------1643----------1450----------1444
20----------1423----------1315----------1315
21----------1332----------1203----------1242
22----------1253----------1217----------1209
23----------1259----------1182----------1180
24----------1294----------1212----------1211
25----------1264----------1194----------1192
26----------1315----------1287----------1286
27----------1206----------1118----------1118
28----------1365----------1350----------1349
29----------1499----------1425----------1425
30----------1280----------1209----------1209
31----------1571----------1535----------1538
32----------1406----------1340----------1341
33----------1713----------1630----------1642
34----------1739----------1662----------1666
35----------1846----------1771----------1776
36----------1684----------1641----------1647
37----------2174----------2145----------2146
38----------2479----------2463----------2463
39----------2394----------2381----------2383
40----------2757----------2760----------2762
41----------3153----------3155----------3156
42----------2993----------3013----------3010
43----------2867----------2887----------2891
44----------2903----------2905----------2906
45----------2813----------2808----------2808
46----------3289----------3312----------3312
47----------2785----------2813----------2813
48----------2707----------2712----------2715
49----------3313----------3310----------3310
50----------3044----------3038----------3040
51----------2968----------2957----------2957
52----------3327----------3301----------3301
53----------2985----------2961----------2961
54----------2427----------2388----------2390
55----------2752----------2705----------2713
56----------2641----------2635----------2632
57----------2793----------2799----------2799
58----------2013----------2034----------2033
59----------2315----------2324----------2327
60----------2249----------2271----------2269
61----------2078----------2097----------2097
62----------2267----------2292----------2291
63----------1629----------1639----------1639
64----------1874----------1885----------1885
65----------1523----------1532----------1531
66----------1414----------1422----------1421
67----------2009----------2014----------2014
68----------1615----------1631----------1633
69----------1553----------1565----------1563
70----------1728----------1740----------1737
71----------1956----------1966----------1968
72----------1993----------2007----------2007
73----------1754----------1759----------1759
74----------1655----------1671----------1671
75----------1721----------1731----------1733
76----------2501----------2522----------2518
77----------1912----------1938----------1935
78----------2643----------2678----------2678
79----------2183----------2208----------2211
80----------1902----------1918----------1918
81----------2069----------2080----------2080
82----------1835----------1851----------1851
83----------1670----------1675----------1674
84----------1890----------1905----------1904
85----------2017----------2050----------2046
86----------1959----------1974----------1972
87----------2272----------2315----------2309
88----------2450----------2488----------2488
89----------2479----------2500----------2501
90----------2262----------2280----------2280
91----------2836----------2862----------2862
92----------2651----------2682----------2682
93----------2584----------2597----------2600
94----------2451----------2474----------2483
95----------2192----------2214----------2215
96----------2321----------2345----------2342
97----------2332----------2346----------2343
98----------2596----------2620----------2618
99----------2374----------2386----------2386
100---------2692----------2719----------2719
101---------2242----------2254----------2253
102---------2635----------2648----------2648
103---------2277----------2296----------2289
104---------2786----------2816----------2818
105---------2958----------2987----------2987
106---------2434----------2458----------2458
107---------1970----------1975----------1977
108---------1693----------1714----------1714
109---------1833----------1852----------1852
110---------2328----------2346----------2346
111---------2051----------2073----------2073
112---------1805----------1820----------1820
113---------2079----------2097----------2095
114---------2423----------2428----------2428
115---------2174----------2203----------2203
116----------2268----------2306----------2306
117----------2044----------2077----------2070
118----------1984----------2016----------2015
119----------2151----------2182----------2182
120----------1887----------1914----------1918
121----------2084----------2130----------2123
122----------1815----------1846----------1846
123----------1789----------1820----------1820
124----------2078----------2105----------2099
125----------2090----------2123----------2123
126----------2404----------2450----------2451
127----------2110----------2157----------2157
128----------1929----------1967----------1967
129----------2342----------2375----------2375
130----------2254----------2314----------2315
131----------1868----------1894----------1897
132----------1905----------1942----------1942
133----------2224----------2261----------2254
134----------2131----------2155----------2155
135----------2128----------2143----------2140
136----------2316----------2349----------2345
137----------3104----------3136----------3141
138----------2902----------2940----------2945
139----------2971----------3013----------3015
140----------3333----------3377----------3377
141----------2774----------2807----------2807
142----------1843----------1832----------1834
143----------1540----------1518----------1519
144----------1491----------1477----------1477
145----------2298----------2282----------2280
146----------2054----------2045----------2046
147----------2461----------2464----------2464
148----------3946----------4022----------4022
149----------2415----------2387----------2387
150----------2397----------2354----------2348
151----------2482----------2464----------2465
152----------2929----------2934----------2934
153----------3091----------3097----------3097
154----------2257----------2270----------2270
155----------2498----------2516----------2516
156----------2156----------2173----------2173
157----------2358----------2379----------2379
158----------2515----------2530----------2529
159----------2484----------2509----------2509
160----------2273----------2313----------2313
161----------2275----------2296----------2288
162----------2382----------2411----------2411
163----------2384----------2408----------2408
164----------2901----------2933----------2931
165----------2613----------2655----------2653
166----------1882----------1907----------1907
167----------1889----------1914----------1914
168----------1830----------1851----------1850
169----------2019----------2054----------2057
170----------1627----------1651----------1651
171----------2217----------2228----------2235
172----------1837----------1865----------1865
173----------1835----------1849----------1852
174----------1845----------1874----------1871
175----------1912----------1918----------1921
176----------2177----------2206----------2207
177----------1849----------1873----------1873
178----------2112----------2135----------2132
179----------2252----------2293----------2289
180----------2132----------2151----------2154
181----------1703----------1725----------1725
182----------1755----------1775----------1772
183----------2486----------2510----------2510
184----------2848----------2882----------2882
185----------2565----------2602----------2609
186----------3018----------3063----------3061
187----------2483----------2509----------2509
188----------2884----------2917----------2915
189----------3367----------3405----------3408
190----------3443----------3471----------3476
191----------3252----------3271----------3271
192----------2927----------2945----------2944
193----------3055----------3053----------3053
194----------2906----------2901----------2906
195----------2726----------2726----------2726
196----------3271----------3293----------3296
197----------3014----------3048----------3048
198----------4052----------4120----------4116
199----------2920----------2888----------2889
200----------2680----------2616----------2614
201----------2515----------2466----------2466
202----------2170----------2134----------2139
203----------2396----------2389----------2390
204----------2699----------2703----------2708
205----------3275----------3282----------3279
206----------2864----------2865----------2863
207----------2952----------2975----------2976
208----------2758----------2789----------2789
209----------3442----------3479----------3477
210----------2985----------2987----------2987
211----------2831----------2824----------2824
212----------2869----------2876----------2876
213----------2632----------2649----------2648
214----------3121----------3148----------3151
215----------2694----------2689----------2689
216----------2206----------2205----------2202
217----------2759----------2765----------2771
218----------2649----------2652----------2652
219----------2097----------2097----------2097
220----------2368----------2384----------2384
221----------2984----------3017----------3017
222----------2442----------2464----------2464
223----------2625----------2634----------2628
224----------2158----------2181----------2183
225----------2460----------2496----------2496
226----------2811----------2823----------2827
227----------2393----------2431----------2433
228----------2285----------2325----------2322
229----------2316----------2340----------2340
230----------2526----------2542----------2542
231----------3319----------3396----------3396
232----------3783----------3795----------3795
233----------3627----------3637----------3638
234----------3554----------3513----------3518
235----------3528----------3464----------3469
236----------3073----------3018----------3023
237----------2879----------2806----------2807
238----------2623----------2583----------2583
239----------2747----------2737----------2737
240----------2740----------2732----------2732
241----------2700----------2686----------2686
242----------2872----------2858----------2858
243----------2956----------2955----------2955
244----------2663----------2655----------2657
245----------2648----------2650----------2650
246----------2846----------2820----------2822
247----------2388----------2346----------2346
248----------2292----------2282----------2278
249----------2680----------2668----------2668
250----------2233----------2243----------2242
251----------2396----------2389----------2389
252----------1910----------1910----------1909
253----------2086----------2093----------2089
254----------2134----------2135----------2139
255----------2257----------2270----------2272
256----------2044----------2065----------2068
257----------2898----------2925----------2925
258----------2484----------2510----------2505
259----------2504----------2514----------2516
260----------1660----------1666----------1666
261----------1829----------1828----------1841
262----------1690----------1692----------1692
263----------1929----------1935----------1935
264----------2132----------2136----------2134
265----------2028----------2035----------2035
266----------1722----------1731----------1728
267----------2082----------2098----------2094
268----------2497----------2521----------2517
269----------2762----------2786----------2783
270----------2492----------2500----------2499
271----------2199----------2210----------2209
272----------2445----------2471----------2468
273----------1899----------1911----------1911
274----------1913----------1930----------1928
275----------1811----------1838----------1834
276----------2175----------2193----------2193
277----------2714----------2740----------2740
278----------2024----------2030----------2030
279----------1942----------1947----------1947
280----------2025----------2025----------2026
281----------2247----------2249----------2249
282----------2214----------2225----------2224
283----------2454----------2474----------2474
284----------1882----------1900----------1897
285----------2190----------2210----------2210
286----------2251----------2270----------2269
287----------2059----------2074----------2074
288----------2380----------2410----------2406
289----------1981----------2004----------2004
290----------2531----------2557----------2557
291----------2456----------2486----------2486
292----------2509----------2527----------2525
293----------2200----------2208----------2207
294----------2669----------2689----------2690
295----------2157----------2191----------2191
296----------2311----------2343----------2345
297----------2725----------2757----------2756

AVG----------2301----------2301----------2302
MAX----------4139----------4190----------4188
MIN----------902-----------897-----------897

[tyee]

Bach
I have a one question on the 1passVBR of CCE. If CCE needs to make a .vaf file first when doing a "1pass MultiVBR" encode, which is really 2 passes, how can we get a Variable Bitrate with the 1passVBR if a .vaf file is not required (which it isn't).

Is CCE really looking at frames before and after the current frame during a 1passVBR so that the required bitrate can be chosen for the current frame?

tyee