Ram speed question

[Mrsash]

Well i am a newbie with a little knowledge of things in the pc world. I wanted to find out some details regarding memory

Recently i have heard about the granite bay motherboard from Asus and gigabyte before that intel PE boards came out which support 667MHZ bus speed

1 What speed does the granite bay motherboards run at? i am thinking
533MHZ
2 With these motherboards doensnt the Processor have to be
certified for 667Mhz bus speed like the p4 A and B type Processors?

Now for memory speeds
Rdram 800MHZ
Rdram 1066MHZ
DDR 266MHZ
DDR 333MHZ
DDR 400MHZ
DDR 433MHZ

These are some i know of. Now my question is regarding the review of gigabyte granite bay motherboard at www.Hardwarezone.com which ran faster than a board with rdram 1066. Now doesnt RDRAM 1066 run at 1066MHZ if it does then shouldnt PE board be faster with this RDRAM. While the review mentions the gigabyte board has support for Dual channel DDR 266 ram , i still do not understand how this dual channel ram can out do a board with RDram running at almost twice the frequency?:confused:

I appreaciate the any info

thanks

[Ramirez]

Let's see if I can help you out here…


Resently I have heard about the granite bay motherboard from Asus and gigabyte
before that Intel PE boards came out which support 667MHZ bus speed
What speed does the granite bay motherboards run at? I am thinking 533MHZ
Neither i845PE, nor E7205 (Granite Bay) Chipsets Supports 667FSB.
The Official FSB Settings are 400/533 MHz only.
(667MHz FSB setting available by --Overclocking--I.E the way
to run your processor At higher Clock/Bus speed, beyond those specified by the hardware manufacturer.)

Now doesn’t RDRAM 1066 run at 1066MHZ if it does then shouldn’t PE board be faster with this RDRAM. While the review mentions the gigabyte board has support for Dual channel DDR 266 ram, I still do not understand how this dual channel ram can out do a board with RDram running at almost twice the frequency?

Well, you are obviously over-impressed by the RDR ability to operate at such a high frequencies, but Keep In mind that sometimes-high frequencies are minor factor and should be disregarded.
Now, due to its architecture, RDRAM operates on a slim 16-bit bus, witch offers the following theoretical bandwidth: (533MHz FSB) x (16-bit Bus) x (2) / (8 bits per byte) = 2.1GB/S
As opposed to RDR, DDR operates on a 64-bit bus, and when combined with the Dual Channel architecture offers up to 4.2GB/S of theoretical memory bandwidth using PC266 memory.


Regards

[Mrsash]

That did help a lot
thanks


but one more question

Neither i845PE, nor E7205 (Granite Bay) Chipsets Supports
667FSB. The Official FSB Settings are 400/533 MHz only.
(667MHz FSB setting available by --Overclocking--I.E the way
to run your processor At higher Clock/Bus speed, beyond those
specified by the hardware manufacturer.)

I thought i saw some gigabyte motherboards having model number XXX667 in their range and also in the pc magaines i have read about these. It might be onle that the motherboard support it and not the cpu. Now that brings me to another question why is intel not upping to 667MHZ suppoting cpu's?:( with the 800Mhz bus speed comming will dual channel DDR266 be enough or will DDR333 and DDR400 really help?

thanks

[Ramirez]

I thought i saw some gigabyte motherboards having model number XXX667 in their range and also in the pc magaines i have read about these. It might be onle that the motherboard support it and not the cpu
Well,I'd suggest you not to jump to conclusions just because the way they are titled/numbered
A much better idea would be to check their hardware specs.You now what they say "Don't judge a book by its cover" ;).)
Now regarding this 667FSB issue,many of the recently released mboards might support 667FSB (and they probably are) but as far as I know Intel is about to skip this stage, and move ahead Towards 800FSB CPU'S.(You might want to check the Intel Chipsets Roadmap (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1752&p=2) )
with the 800Mhz bus speed comming will dual channel DDR266 be enough or will DDR333 and DDR400 really help?
Will it work with Dual Channel DDR 266? No Way! But it will work with Dual Channel DDR400.

Regards

Edit:Fixed URL.

[Mrsash]

thanks man that helped a lot.

thanks

[destemido]

ramirez... i'm not sure if your calculations are correct...
RDram runs at 533 Mhz right??? so in double channel mode that means 1066mhz. ddr however runs at 133x2 266mhz (ddr266)
also ddr mobos have memory/FSB ratio meaning no ddr runs at 533 mhz!!! so the calculations are wrong!!!
pc1066 offer a pick theorical BW of 4.3 GB/s

edit: another fact to consider is latency... rdram has lots of it..
but that is due to architecture limitations. there's a very good article about it on the net... don't know the address though!!!

another edit...
pc2100 (ddr266) has a peak theorical of 2.1 GB/s
pc2700 (ddr333) " " " 2.7 GB/s
pc3200 (ddr400) " " " 3.2 GB/s

all in single channel, of course.

[Mrsash]

Rather good info

Now regarding this 667FSB issue,many of the recently released mboards might support 667FSB (and they probably are) but as far as I know Intel is about to skip this stage, and move ahead Towards 800FSB CPU'S.(You might want to check the Intel Chipsets Roadmap )


Hmmm well what speed ddrram be good for the 800Mhz bus speed. Am i correct in thinking situation today an ideal system would be Processor, ddr ram and bus speed running at 3.06Ghz?

Is the main problem in todays systems the hard drive speed since it uses it as a swap file?

I had a pc magazine which said that PCI Express is comming which will support 533Mhz rather than the current 33Mhz (if i am right). Now if that happens data can finally be tranferred at a better rate.:sly:

[destemido]

ddr400 will be ideal to maximise performance....
it's basically the same thing as now.. you can use ddr266 on a p4, but put some ddr333 and you'll notice a performance boost.
it's not really about perfomance gain, but less performance loss!!!
as both ddr memories can't give the p4 enough bandwith..

[destemido]

so ... ramirez acording to your calculations a p4 with ddr 266 is faster then one with pc-800, right???

get the fuck out of here....
go study your lesson better...
the diference between 16-bit and 32 bit is the fact that 32-bit rimms need not to be instaled in pairs...
oh... and ALL rdram mobos are dual channel....

[Ramirez]

@Destemido YOU ARE ONE PATHTETIC LITLE MAN..

As opposed to you I'm doing my best to help people
around here, while all that you're doing is making 1- line long useless comments in DVD-authoring forum
So far you did 181 posts, but none a single attempt to seriously help somebody
Now in regards to this particular tread, Ether you don't have enough brains to
Understand what I'm trying to say here, Or maybe it's just you are seriously messed'up person in general, I really don't care.

I'd suggest you to lose that bad a$$ attitude of yours; it's not going to lead you anywhere.
That's it, end of discussion.

[destemido]

yeah, yeah, yeah...
pathetic me???
why??? because i proved you wrong????
gee... i must have pissed you off very badly. you had to see where i post, in a vain atempt to dig some dirt on me....
poor you!!!
make sure when you "teach" someone that you teach something thats actually correct...

oh... and about the one line useless posts... if that were so, then why is my PM box full, with msg from people asking for files, guides, very detailed explanations about a certain problem...
there are some posts where i say "use the search button" but that is far from being useless.

your problem is that when you put something in your head no matter what other people say... you'll always be right...

the only really useless post i have are the ones on this thread... talking to you...

enough said already.....

[The Edge]

@destemido
Some useful links.
1. (www.angermgmt.com) 2. (www.apa.org/pubinfo/anger.html ) 3. (www.anger-management.net/ )

Edge

[destemido]

see... now this is how the forum should be like...
liked those links, you're a funny guy...
i'm not even going to ask why i'm being considered the bad here!!!
i must have something against stupidity...
:p

[The Edge]

incest is the game the whole family can play... (nasty one)

interesting

PS.
I don't consider you bad at all. Those links were to try and change the aggressive tone that this tread was heading for. No offence.;)

Edge

[Ramirez]

Oh yes, you have pissed me off- BIG TIME! I have no problem to admit that
And yes, I did a little search on forums after your name, but not because
I wanted to "dig some dirt on you" I only wanted to see how well you're treating
Others members of this forum, because honestly I was in shock by the way you've
Treated me, I'm only a human and obviously I don't know everything, you think I wrong? Then correct me,
but do it with a minimum degree of courtesy,I'll be glad to admit that I was wrong.
Now,I didn’t came here to Conduct a personal vendetta against you, far from it, but comeone
just look at your Previous posts, don't you realize how offensive it looks!

[destemido]

ahh... finally we are getting somewhere!!! :D
i really don't think i was rude...
it's not my intention to be rude... i know a little a about computers thats all.... pretty much just like you.
hey don't feel bad... there are lots of discutions around the planet on many forums... funny and ironic at the same time...
whenever i read those posts i thought, i would never post anything like that... yet.... (you get the point)

but i must say my first post was nothing compared to your answer...
and that also pissed me off. this thread was the only thing that kept me going throughtout (don't mind the spelling) the afternoon.

now... here's the interesting part.. this is where i recongnise i may have offended you so...

I'M SORRY!!! :o

@the edge... the current sig is not original... so i should think of one of my own...

just to finish... i think we'll get along just fine from now on...

EDIT: feel free to PM me if you ever, if not there already, get into the authoring scene... (not that i'm a real expert, though sometimes i think i'm one and also tend to forget i've only been here for a month) and maybe we can exchange ideas, files, whatever... whether to teach or to learn!!!
:D :D :D

[Mrsash]

Hi there guys good info. i dont wanna make you two argue but this dicusion has still left me wondering what rig i should buy?
thanks for the help

[destemido]

lol, you're right... i just received a yellow car, saying i violated rule #4... how pathetic...
doesn't matter anyway!!!
now... to answer your question...
what i've heard is that dual channel DDR mobos will be faster then RDram ones. If i were you i would go for one of those mobos, becuase it's a lot cheaper (512MB ddr333 cost less than 256MB pc-800 at least in my country) and if you're an enthusiast you can achieve higher o/c's with ddr. there is a downside... granite bay mobos are said to be extremely expensive... but considering the fact that you may keep your ram when upgrading for a faster system, it shouldn't be a big problem.
i only got an RDram mobo becuase i already had the ram. but i was a fool to do so...
as for the new processors (800Mhz FSB)... i don't know exactly when they are comming but it should happen anytime soon, since they are to be replaced by the prescott in H2 03. (second half of 2003, if you didn't know that)
hope i managed to post anything usefull this time!!!

[Ramirez]

@Destemido
Hi,thank you for the kind replay; perhaps my answer was kinda harsh, so I’m sorry if I’ve offended you in some way (excessive use of exclamation points can do that to a person yow know ;)) and indeed, as you said I think that everything is gonna be just fine between you and me from now on. Now in regards to your kind suggestion to ask you for explanations, good programs, etc in a DVD authoring area, I’m definitely gonna use It, thanks! The only thing I need is a DVD burner. (Those toys are kinda pricey in my country)

Now in regards to this damn memory issue, I'd like to explain to you what actually happens here. In his initial post Mrsash asked, how come the granite bay chipset designed to work with dual channel DDR instead of the RDRAM witch runs at much higher freq, so I’ve answered him that dual DDR will provide much more bandwidth then RDRAM, witch only capable to provide 2.1/GBS.
When I wrote that I was convinced that RDRAM is unable to operate in dual channel configuration, witch is obviously isn’t true () MIA COPLA!! MY FAULT!! :(
Perhaps I thought that way because of the strange way that RDR is actually works? (While one rimm transmitting data, the other one is resting)
but this is more like a latency issue right? The Conclusion: RDRAM can, and will provide exact the same Bandwidth as DDR, the main reason why the Granite Bay Chipset Was designed to work with DDR would be the price consideration.

Here is an updated list of memory B/W Calculation.

(533 FSB) x (64-bit Bus) / (8) = 4.2GB/S PC-266 DUAL CHANNEL DDR
533 FSB) x (16- bit Bus) x (4) / (8) = 4.2GB/S PC-1066 DUAL CHANNEL RDRAM

Did I've got this right this time? :)

Thanks again.

[destemido]

yeah you got that right!!! :D
oh... and did you get a PM with "warning" on the subject?
it said i violated rule #4 (something like.. be nice to each other)
i did...

edit:
there's a very nice detailed article about DDR vs RDram in
http://www.arstechnica.com/
it's a very good site with detailed information...

[Ramirez]

thanks for the article,and no,no PM'S so I guess I was kinda nice :D