nanDub rc3

[Selur]

Just read the following at
http://reloadworld.de/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=17095#post17095 (it's a german board)

posted by Tsunami:

Statement von Nando :

Due to the fact that Nandub is now defunct,
yet still used for video editing,
I've taken up the project to update it to the latest libraries and code from VirtualDub.
I'll work on a little bit of coding to get it all compatible.
I'm NOT a good programmer...
In fact, you can consider me as not being a programmer,
but I understand most concepts of the programming world.
I understand very little C++...
and I took half a year course in it....
Anyhow, here's the latest builds of Nandub including updated OGG and Vorbis libraries.
I'll try to include an MP3Pro encoder and decoder into the program soon.
Then, I'll work on what ever people want,
as long as people can help me out with the programming.


http://bluedigital.150m.com/nandub/nandub.html
http://users.rcn.com/jmg68/nandub/nandubrc3.zip


Did anyone test this version and maybe know if there's a changelog and sourcecode somewhere?

Cu Selur

[Neo Neko]

Hrm. I have such mixed emotions on this subject. In it's day Nandub indeed had it's good points. And I believe Nando had nothing but good intentions. But pretty much everything non-sbc related was gone about in all the wrong ways. And even SBC the good point of it is now outdated and becomming rapidly outclassed. I would hope that anyone who picks up such a task would rework the program to be usable with current more propper MPEG4 codecs such as Divx, Xvid, and 3vix. Perhaps I am just thinking the worst of them expecting that this is done in an effort to cling to the old outmoded hacks of the past(AKA Divx 3.11/MSMPEG4).

In the end I suppose I shall just have to wait and see. Perhaps it will be done with foreward thinking which was the spirit I believe Nando started Nandub with and not with the stubborn backwards thinking I see some times.

[Nic]

Statement von Nando
Is that statement really from Nando ?? The RC3 version linked is not written by him & that neither sounds like his style of writing
(also, having an mp3pro encoder/decoder is no meagre task ;) not alot out there from codingtechnologies about how they implement sbr in mp3). IMHO nando would have known that...

-Nic

[sillKotscha]

have a look in the 'about' box...

[Koepi]

sillkotscha:

I don't want to waste bandwidth, so what's in the about-box?

Regards
Koepi

[Nic]

I already stated that nando didn't do the rc3 version (so the about box isnt saying anymore than that), I guess I wasnt really asking "Is that statement really from Nando ??" but instead stating "that statement isn't really from Nando.". ;)

-Nic

[sillKotscha]

in the about_box:

Nandub1.0rc3 [...] by jimmsta...

and on the other hand nothing else to say than Nic ;)

Sill

[bond]

NanDub Change log

Build 30 (Version 1.0 RC3)
[ Updated and improved! ]
* look below for all versions! *

Build 28 (Version 1.0 Beta 2.002)
[ Fixed in very little time ]
* Accidently changed things in Main.cpp, and forced 55 errors... changed back to old file.*

Build 27 (Version 1.0 Beta 2.001)
[fixed features]
* Major: OGG Vorbis libraries and initialization fixed!
** Updated to vorbis 1.0!!!!!**
* Fixed bug with menus being 'sticky'.
* updated this file!

Build 20-25 (Version 1.0 beta 2)
[updated features]
* Filters updates
* Capture source updated
* Resource Files (ICON, etc) updated
* Libraries updated
* coach messages updated
* YUV codec updated
* Minor bug fixes with dialogs, help...

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by bond Build 27 (Version 1.0 Beta 2.001)
[fixed features]
* Major: OGG Vorbis libraries and initialization fixed!
** Updated to vorbis 1.0!!!!!**


Somebody stop this guy, please !! And do it quick !!

Vorbis in AVI ... yirk ...

[Nosferatu]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
Somebody stop this guy, please !! And do it quick !!

Vorbis in AVI ... yirk ...

Interesting combination....;)
Jimmsta is not doing anything wrong....at least Nandub project goes further.
AVI structure is not so advanced as MCF or OGG, but still oftenly used.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Nosferatu Interesting combination....;)
Yes, very interesting. Nando put a complete Ogg container into AVI as there was no other way, making seeking into the file completely impossible. The development on the necessary DShow filter, called MediaXW from Ingo Ralf, was stopped by the author because he recognised there was no good way to do it.
Its nothing else but another bad hack, and i am inviting you to help out on a Vdub support forum i know of, too see where such hacks do lead. I cant count the number of posts from Newbies to the forum having probs with files with VBR MP3, though admittedly things went better since Avery created a special error message about VBR audio streams if it detects one.
Jimmsta is not doing anything wrong....at least Nandub project goes further
nandub is dead, and at least since there is VirtualdubMod i cant see any sane reason why it should be revitalized.
AVI structure is not so optimal as MCF or OGG, but still oftenly used.
'not so optimal' ?? Man, do you know at all what you are talking about ? Or was this reply simply ment to upset me somehow ?

[ChristianHJW]

OK, i downloaded this shit to find out who this guy 'Jimmsta' is.

Of course, he doesnt give any proper reference where to contact him ( and i will do, for sure ) only thing i could find was an email adress in the Nandub about box :

bde at softhome dot net

Anybody can confirm this is him ? Or has he been to lazy to exchange email adresses ? In the original nandub version there was nando's email adress at thsi pace, so maybe he did ?

Will try to contact the guy now to stop this nonsense ....

[Nosferatu]

I guess Jimmsta haven't inserted his email adress due persons like you.
I read the MCF specifications, I do not doubt in fact it may take the place of AVI in the future, but for now it lays in shadows of development phase....

[esby]

Well nandub dead... not sure...

For me the dev stopped at rc2.

if some guy we don't know wants to do something with the last actual code.
It's not really my problem.
As long he labels properly the change and he keeps compatibility
with the 'old' nandub, it's fine for me.

It is well known that nandub have tons of bugs.
Especially the one that you can do two encodes with the same settings
and not have the same result most of the time...

But i'm still using nandub for encoding.
Why?
Because other alternatives, which looks promising (i'm refering to xvid here, not to div5.X) are still in dev and not stable (in my opinion).

So if someone can fix nandub bugs ( and not add more by the way -- )
it's ok for me, but only if the second condition (in the parenthesis) is matched.

esby

[ppera2]

There is still lot of people who claim that DivX 3.11 with Nandub offers best quality and uses it exclusivelly to make DivX (Mpeg4) video. I'm not from them, I use currently Nandub only for muxing VBR MP3 with video.

I remember when, before some 18 month Nando finished Nandub in couple weeks in very intensive work, with lot of test and feedback from this forum users. This was a nice example how it should to do.

To making Nandub considerably better from RC2 version requires really big effort and knowledge. As I see from 'statement' there is no intention to improve video encoding part, but audio part. Question is that, is there any sense to make it, when people learned to use in meantime appeared programs for that purpose? We have as I know 2 good freeware programs for OGG muxing. There is also problem with AC3 muxing. It works, but not good - see discussion with author of AVIMUX about it.

My conclusion is: I see fast and easy way to improve Nandub: just drop out sections AC3 and OGG from audio menu.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Nosferatu I guess Jimmsta haven't inserted his email adress due persons like you.
Maybe
I read the MCF specifications, I do not doubt in fact it may take the place of AVI in the future, but for now it lays in shadows of development phase....
What have MCF and matroska to do with this man ?
We have OGM, and its working ! Its simply stupid to put Ogg Vorbis in AVI, and an irresponsible action from this guy to try to enforce it ... as a 'developer' he should really know better ...

[Dark-Cracker]

hi,

i don't see the interest to regroup all the virtualdub modified version in 1 tool (vudmod) if on the other hand some people still try to work on some modified version (nandub project).the nandubrc3 developper have update the audio part but the ogg in avi doesn't work and i suppose there are still a problem with the xvid bframe when u mux. if someone want to continu the nandub project (because u have still some good result) it would be better to associate it with the vdubmod team (support of ogg, avs, fixed mux...) to add the support of the divx3, a better curve adjustement and perhaps a split on the desired size not on the specified kframe.in this case it will be a real rc3 release :)

"stop to waste time with some outdated version".

Bye.
sorry for my crap english and for this useless post on my personnal opinion.

[esby]

Well for me, nandub is meant for sbc, if people wants to use special audio format with avi(I won't discuss the fact that these format are a good idea or a bad one).
I think it's better to let it handle by another tool.
cause... The less complex the tool, the less it will be buggy...

Concerning nandub, i don't know if the vdub mod structure can be used
for nandub.
What i know is that nandub is based on div 3.11 codec which is becoming more & more obsolete todays...

I don't think adding nandub features(and weigth) to vdub mod project might be a good idea, mainly because you'll add probably useless features for the future, and these features may have a non negligeable cost for the structure.

If one feature had to be added to vdub(and not necessary mod) it could be the ecf scripting, but even i think it is a bit too much oriented to divx 3.11 alpha...
Because if vdub could handle the ecf correctly, that means you won't need nandub to encode but only to build an ecf, or maybe that you'll need another tool to build an ecf...
And maybe if you can use something like an ecf to provide custom support to the codec with vdub it could be a good idea, it this is possible (eg with xvid ( dunno completely if it's possible))

esby

[int 21h]

Last time I checked, the majority of the world was free. This guy has the freedom to develop whatever he wants. Nandub was released under the GPL with the intent that anyone who wanted to change it, could and would.

Christian's comments just demonstrate his fanaticism and plain disrespect of anyone who is not developing with his idea of the future of multimedia in mind.

Perhaps, instead of contacting this developer to belittle and harass him, you should contact him and extend a helping hand pointing him to VdubMod. Its quite possible that he is completely unaware of it.

In any event, I'm quite sure that this man had the best of intentions in mind when he started the project, the last thing he needs is to be thrown under the bus.

[Zhnujm]

Originally posted by int 21h
Last time I checked, the majority of the world was free. This guy has the freedom to develop whatever he wants. Nandub was released under the GPL with the intent that anyone who wanted to change it, could and would.

Christian's comments just demonstrate his fanaticism and plain disrespect of anyone who is not developing with his idea of the future of multimedia in mind.

Perhaps, instead of contacting this developer to belittle and harass him, you should contact him and extend a helping hand pointing him to VdubMod. Its quite possible that he is completely unaware of it.

In any event, I'm quite sure that this man had the best of intentions in mind when he started the project, the last thing he needs is to be thrown under the bus.

sorry, but that has to be repeated in bold.

[cofferscuffs]

Originally posted by Neo Neko
[B]I would hope that anyone who picks up such a task would rework the program to be usable with current more propper MPEG4 codecs such as Divx, Xvid, and 3vix. [B]

why would you even wish for that? they already have their own decent curve calc. etc. especially xvid

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by int 21h Last time I checked, the majority of the world was free. This guy has the freedom to develop whatever he wants. Nandub was released under the GPL with the intent that anyone who wanted to change it, could and would.
No doubt, this guy can do whatever he wants with nandub's code, modify the sources, release his own binaries ..... but is he allowed to call it nandub RC3 then ? Does the GPL cover the handling of the project name also ? Did he ask Nando, the copyright holder of the project name 'nandub' AFAIK, if he allows using the name for his project ? Would Nando agree with what this guy is doing now ? I dont think so .... maybe you or Cabra can ask Nando, so he can clarify ....
Christian's comments just demonstrate his fanaticism and plain disrespect of anyone who is not developing with his idea of the future of multimedia in mind.
I apologize for the insulting words i was using to describe Jimmsta's project. And yes, maybe i am right about to become fanatic about my goals. Its just completely demotivating if you are trying to convince people that there is the need for an open standard container to be able to use Vorbis and other new codecs, and then somebody ( again ) jumps on the scene and makes a quick dirty hack and everybody goes ' ... hello, this is what i was waiting for, Vorbis in AVI, Christian and his friends were all wrong, lets use it ..'. In such moments you all feel like Sissyphos, rolling the stone up on the mountain, again and again .....
Perhaps, instead of contacting this developer to belittle and harass him, you should contact him and extend a helping hand pointing him to VdubMod. Its quite possible that he is completely unaware of it.
You should know me good enough meanwhile, my email to him was not at all insulting, infact i was using the word 'please' many many times in it. I am not sure i pointed him to VdubMod, will try to dig out the email and include that in my resending ....
In any event, I'm quite sure that this man had the best of intentions in mind when he started the project, the last thing he needs is to be thrown under the bus.
Again, i apologize for my overreaction ....

[int 21h]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
No doubt, this guy can do whatever he wants with nandub's code, modify the sources, release his own binaries ..... but is he allowed to call it nandub RC3 then ? Does the GPL cover the handling of the project name also ? Did he ask Nando, the copyright holder of the project name 'nandub' AFAIK, if he allows using the name for his project ? Would Nando agree with what this guy is doing now ? I dont think so .... maybe you or Cabra can ask Nando, so he can clarify ....


He can call it whatever he wants, the last time I contacted nando, he had absolutely no interest in anything to do with the MPEG-4 community and no interest in anything related to Nandub (this includes bug fixes, future developments, et al.), further, the software has been abandoned by the original group of users, so for all intents and purposes its now labeled as 'abandonware'.

[AlphaDivxMovies]

I agree with you. After do much time doing SBC i can say that what is hard for me now is not getting a good SBC encoding but gettting Xvid to match the quality of my previous encodes. But M$ products should remain M$ products and we should continue work on this new free codec.
The rc3 nandub version has brought a smile to my face and i will test it just for kicks. This guy deserves our respect and help, not all this bashing. It is silly, some of you show your true mental age thru your comments and depreciative remarks. Sorry but i had to say it, i get really pissed when sometimes i see people not here to help others but are just pushing their own ideas and work.
SBC is still a viable option and this guy deserves 2 things:

1)The thanks of the video encoding community
2)An invite to take part of the VirtualMod project (finnaly a shutdown check box?)- maybe he is oblivious of the fact.

Althought not very revolutionary, this "update" goes to show that no matter as hard as some people try, Nandub and divx3.11 will not go away that easily. It took a lot of my time in the beginning but i am not sorry. Xvid is good but it is not the holy grail. So just chill out cause there is room for everyone.

[sillKotscha]

Originally posted by AlphaDivxMovies
2)An invite to take part of the VirtualMod project (finnaly a shutdown check box?)- maybe he is oblivious of the fact.


already implemented... in VDub_mod

[NeVeRLiFt]

I would have liked to seen a Nandub like tool for XviD... Building it into the codec seems to have caused problems and slowed down the development of the codec itself.