PAL SVCD rips vs. NTSC SVCD rips

[cafu]

Hello

I've done a few rips with d2s, both pal and ntsc rips.
One thing I have noticed is that pal rips always seem to be worse quality than the ntsc ones, a lot more blocky.

I've tried both Tmpgenc and CCE, but the results are the same.
(Allthough CCE is better than Tmpgenc of course)

I have followed the d2s guide on doom9.net, with just minor changes,

Does any know what would be the best configuration in d2s for pal rips?

oh btw, I did try the lovely search button, but no luck :rolleyes:

Here is the log from pal rip I did yesterday.
Back to the future 1:

WNASPI32.DLL 4.71.2.0
Key found: D74876E800
--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 02:12:54
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.1.0 build 1c
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 02:13:00
- Free on drive D: 55948.23 mb
- Internal rip
--------------------------------------------------------
Preparing vobfiles to be ripped:
- F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
- F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
- F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
- F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
- F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_6.vob

Ripping: F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
Ripping: F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
Ripping: F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
Ripping: F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
Ripping: F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
Ripping: F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_6.vob
Ripping finished. Speed: 6898

--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 02:26:35
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[D:\DVDrip\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[D:\DVDrip\VTS_01_1.vob,D:\DVDrip\VTS_01_2.vob,D:\DVDrip\VTS_01_3.vob,D:\DVDrip\VTS_01_4.vob,D:\DVDrip\VTS_01_5.vob,D:\DVDrip\VTS_01_6.vob]
Framerate: 25000
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 02:29:04
- Free on drive D: 50470.45 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: D:\DVDrip\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 02:32:16
- Free on drive D: 50164.88 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Encoding Audio. Filename: D:\DVDrip\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "D:\DVDrip\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "D:\DVDrip\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\DVDrip\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
Audio conversion of D:\DVDrip\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 02:56:05
- Free on drive D: 49986.62 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Frameserver.
Closing program

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1668571576
AudioSectors: 189636076
VideoPAPO: 22909500
ScanOffsetBytes: 200261
SeqAligningBytes: 12727686
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 1443098044.80
Seconds: 6682.36
CalcMPEGStream: 1443098044.80
Frames: 166884
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 2
Cut point 796.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 166884
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 500
Max. bitrate: 2530
Avg. Bitrate: 1727
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (borders added, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\DVDrip\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
BicubicResize(480,432,0.0,0.6)
AddBorders(0,72,0,72)
----AVS End----

Closing program
CCE Max Speed: 0.810
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 14:34:50
- Free on drive D: 48573.79 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 14:34:54
- Free on drive D: 48573.79 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 14:34:59
- Free on drive D: 48573.79 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 14:35:03
- Free on drive D: 48573.79 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 1
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 1 seconds
Cut point: 796 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVDrip\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of D:\DVDrip\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
3444 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 3445
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 1 seconds
Cut point: 796 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVDrip\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 22.12.2002 14:45:22
- Free on drive D: 46997.14 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------

[chainsaw135]

I myself never have done a PAL movie but, i can say a few things that you could try and see if it helps. First change your number of passes from 4 to 5 I always do 5 and i'm able to notice a slight improvement from a 4 pass encode. Another thing i would change is the image quality from 17 to 24 or 22 the cce manual recommends 24, thats usually how i set mine. Also i would raise your min average to 755 or 800.

One more thing, with a bitrate under 1800 you might try temporal smooth as it tends to smooth out block's caused by low bitrate/high compression. If those setting changes don't meet your standards while doing a movie at 1727 average bitrate then the only other option is to raise your bitrate i generally dont like going under 1800 but prefer to keep it around 2,100 or higher.

Now your question about why PAL can look worse then NTSC, when compared to each other. I wanna explain some differences and why one can be worse or better then the other. PAL really should have superior quality compared to NTSC and if the compression isn't a factor PAL does have a 20% better picture resolution compared to a NTSC video. Well that all sounds good and everything but what it means is if you compress the PAL to much you'll actually start loosing more of the quality faster then you would with a NTSC video. So you can either higher your bitrate which in turn will have you using 3 disks per movie instead of the 2, or you can try some of the settings i've suggested and hope that its good enough maybe do some searches on different settings that people use and see if any of those are to your liking as your eye's could see totally different then another persons anyways that should answer some of your questions.

[cafu]

Thanks for the great reply!

I'll try out your tips and post results later.

[DVD__GR]

Originally posted by chainsaw135
I myself never have done a PAL movie but, i can see a few things that you could try and see if it helps. First change your number of passes from 4 to 5 I always do 5 and i'm able to notice a slight improvement from a 4 pass encode. Another thing i would change is the image quality from 17 to 24 or 22 the cce manual recommends 24, thats usually how i set mine. Also i would raise your min average to 755 or 800.

I would like to discuss ur proposed settings.
I dont agree for the image quality priority setting.
i dont remember buy as you know going to 1 u get more bits allocated in fast motion scenes.I got huge improvent in movies like matrix and spiderman getting it to 15-17.tested at 10 and at 25.at ten the background was not so good and close and fast motion scenes were perfect,on the other hand at 25 i lost much in detail where i needed it.
Using 5from4passes also i dont think its much change cafu's movies
bitrate.could u tell me how you could tell the difference between 4 and 5??I dont tottaly disagree as we all know more is better in cinemacraft,my thought is that 5 if too much if u have a good average bitrate value.

[chainsaw135]

Originally posted by DVD__GR
I would like to discuss ur proposed settings.
I dont agree for the image quality priority setting.
i dont remember buy as you know going to 1 u get more bits allocated in fast motion scenes.I got huge improvent in movies like matrix and spiderman getting it to 15-17.tested at 10 and at 25.at ten the background was not so good and close and fast motion scenes were perfect,on the other hand at 25 i lost much in detail where i needed it.
Using 5from4passes also i dont think its much change cafu's movies
bitrate.could u tell me how you could tell the difference between 4 and 5??I dont tottaly disagree as we all know more is better in cinemacraft,my thought is that 5 if too much if u have a good average bitrate value.


@dvd_gr well thats fine if you dont agree thats why we have an open discussion and a forum:) but i've done plenty of testing over the past year to know what settings i prefer. If you dont agree or don't like the settings and you think yours are better for this case then i'd suggest posting some helpful information on your settings so cafu can use them in trying to find the results he likes. I myself used to think 4 passes wasen't any different then 5 but i went in and tweaked my settings and tested and i can tell a slight improvement and since time is not an issues thats how i do things.

And you should play around with the image quality priority settings, if you have a high action movies vs a low action movie you will need to adjust. I like you dont set mine to 25 either so i can agree 25 is a bit high.
ALso you stated above that that 4 passes and 5 passes dosen't change his bitrate much, well actually it dosen't change his bitrate at all what it does it orginizes the bitrates but dosen't make his bitrate go higher as you read in my post to him that i suggested if those things i've posted are not up to his standards he needs a higher bitrate.

Oh and before i forget you stated that 5 is to much if you have a high bitrate. Well really its not to much, but in this case he dosen't have a high bitrate, and for myself if you read around the forum you'll notice i post that i only use 2 cdr's when doing movies unless the movie is over 2 1/2 hours long. what that means is i never have a high bitrate like i'm thinking you are talking about.


@cafu one more thing i'd like to add is since your trying to find what looks good to you and the settings you prefer, i'd suggest testing just a chapter of a movie instead of the whole movie.

[ux-3]

@dvd_gr:
I had trouble to understand your post. Please proofread once before posting.
Thanks

[cafu]

I've now ripped chapter 3 of back to the future with chainsaw135 settings and it does look a bit better, but not very drasticly.

Having said that, it does not look bad, but still I find the ntsc rips to look better.

Oh well, at least I now have more optimized/tweaked settings for dvd2svcd.

cheers