Question about the "Getting the best out of CCE" guide...

[Ntsita]

Well, i have just automated the Bach’s method.
In synthesis:
Bach has said (rightly) that for getting the best out of CCE, by the fastest way, it’s possible using mode ‘One Pass VBR’.
But missing the possibility to insert the average bitrate, the final videofile size should be left unknowed less than you know the right Q value to insert to arrive at your desired videofile size.
The next program that i’ll release, resolve the problem.
Be sufficient insert the videofile size that you want (in bytes) and it’ll find the right Q value, it’ll encode the video file (at your choice) and it’ll shutdown the computer (always at your choice).

Limitations: (...there are always present:mad: )
Works with:
-Avisynth script (only one at time)
-Only CCE 2.66.x
-Avisynth 2.5
-Avisynth 2.0x with mpeg*dec*.dll that supports function ‘SelectRangeEvery’

Doesn’t work with:
-chapter list in CCE (it’ll be lost)
-Audio file inserted in “Input Audio from another file” (it’ll be lost)
-Encode Range partially setted up in CCE (it'll be lost)
-Boh? (You can say me with your test)

I think to release “Bach One Pass VBR” perhaps tomorrow in my home page.

Hi :D

[Ntsita]

Ok, i have released it in my home page. :D :D :D
Try it: 'Bach One Pass VBR'

[rkorkie]

Hey Ntsita, I tried your Bach One Pass VBR tool, and it doesn't seem to be working for me. The output of your log file was this:

*********************
Start Log of Bach One Pass VBR:
Your desired filesize: 4372996923 bytes (4170 MBytes nearly).
Q=32 --> 000 bytes (0 MBytes nearly).
Q=16 --> 000 bytes (0 MBytes nearly).
Q=8 --> 000 bytes (0 MBytes nearly).
Q=4 --> 000 bytes (0 MBytes nearly).
Q=2 --> 000 bytes (0 MBytes nearly).

The value to use is:
Q=1 with Filesize of 000 bytes (0 MBytes predicted).

ENDLOG. (by NTSITA v1.00)
*********************

However, I then tried your One Pass VBR Finder 2.01, and I got better results, but still mixed results:

*********************
Start Log of CCE Qfinder:
Your desidered filesize: 4372996923 bytes.
Q=32 --> 15283988 bytes.
Q=16 --> 25917704 bytes.
Q=8 --> 39244756 bytes.
Q=4 --> 50068628 bytes.
Q=2 --> 55502576 bytes.

The value to use is:
Q=1 with Filesize of 27751288 bytes. (predicted)

ENDLOG. (by NTSITA v2.01)
*********************

Notice how its calculation for Q is not quite correct. Nevertheless, can you explain to me why the results with both programs? I was doing the movie The Graduate (fyi). Thanx for any help!

[Ntsita]

Okay, for 'Bach One Pass VBR' post your ?.avs used and ?_SRE.avs created by this tool, so i can examine them.

For 'CCE One Pass VBR Qfinder' you have entered the entire size of your videofile instead of 1% of it.
Retry with 1% of videofile size and it'll surely succeed (your Qvalue will be 6 or 7, observing your log).
Post also this .avs script (i want notice where you have placed function 'SelectRangeEvery').

Hi. (i wait your post)

[rkorkie]

For the Back one pass, here is my .avs:

***********************
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\GRADUATE\graduate.d2v")
#selectrangeevery(1200,12)
AddAudio()
ConvertToYUY2()
***********************

Here is the one generated by your program:

***********************
#Adding 'SelectRangeEvery' by NTSITA

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\GRADUATE\graduate.d2v")
#selectrangeevery(1200,12)
AddAudio()
ConvertToYUY2()
SelectRangeEvery(1200,12)

#Added 'SelectRangeEvery' by NTSITA
***********************

As far as the CCE one pass is concerned, you are right, I screwed up and put 100% of the file size. I must have been confused cause the new program requires 100% of the size, not 1%. My mistake. But any help you can give me with the Bach program would be appreciated. Thanx!

Ryan

[rkorkie]

Ntsita, by the way, I don't really understand the difference in your programs that you wrote between the "CCE One Pass VBR" and the "Bach One Pass VBR". From what I understand and what I see, they seem to do the exact same thing. Any explanation there? Thanx!

[Ntsita]

'Bach One Pass VBR' is an update of 'CCE ONE Pass VBR Qfinder' with sostantial improvements so much that i have changed its name.

Hi ;)

[rkorkie]

so do you have any ideas as to why Bach VBR 1.0 was returning values of Zero, and your previous program (CCE VBR 2.01) was correct in giving me a Q of 7????

Ryan

[Ntsita]

Bach One Pass VBR Problem

Can you rerun Bach tool with 'graduate.avs'?

While running, keep opened and visible the output videofile dir.
You can notice a file created (temporary and repeatly for each pass) named 'QsizeTemp.txt'.
Try to open it and PM me the content.
Also tell me the ouput dir (also if the same of input avs)
Hi

[rkorkie]

Well, this could be part of the problem. The file 'QsizeTemp.txt' does NOT appear in that directory anytime during the process. I looked in c:\ and saw a file that you create called ntsita.bat. In that file I see:

dir /o-s "D:\GRADUATE\bob_d1.mpv" > "D:\GRADUATE\QsizeTEMP.txt"

So, it seems there should be a file in D:\GRADUATE, but I carefully watch the directory the entire time and I never see anything appear.

Does that help any?

Ryan

[Ntsita]

Tomorrow, i verify the tool in relation of this.
(Strange, the two tools for 'QsizeTemp.txt' make same work, and '..Qfinder' functions well for you.:confused: )
Hi

[jankster]

Ntsita,

I'm not a huge expert here, so excuse me for any ignorance, but doesn't "one Pass VBR" produce flat bitrates, that is CBR. I use "Bitrate Viewer" and see a huge quality improvement with 2 or 3 passes. Is this "Bach One Pass VBR" just for people with very slow computers? I have a XP1700 and can transcode 4 movies in 24 hours with 2-pass.

[Ntsita]

Noooo:eek: , the 'One Pass VBR' doesn't produce flat bitrate as CBR, but it produces a flat quantization level that is like a Constant Quality in TMPEG.
You, probably, have exchanged, the slightly flat line seen in 'Bitrate Viewer', for bitrate level but it's quantization level.

Depending on the Q value entered in CCE , it's like as you say CCE to encode a movie with a much most possible fixed quantization level that, however, it isn't directly proportional to quantization level.

(Ex. Qvalue=5 doesn't produce a movie with QuantizationLevel=5)

BTW, the quality produced with 'One Pass VBR' is really indistinguishable from that produced in 'MultiPass VBR' (seen with eyes:cool: ), while you want the same filesize produced.

In fact, you should must have the same average quantization level, if you examine them with 'Bitrate Viewer'.

Then, the quality is nearly the same with this two methods (there are however some exceptions).

I repeat that the 'One Pass VBR' isn't be considered till now because, principally, there wasn't a fast way to determinate the average bitrate produced with it (AvgBitRate=Desired FileSize).

Now that there is...;)

Hi, NTSITA.

[Ntsita]

Well, i have updated 'Bach One Pass VBR' that should must resolve the rkorkie's problem above mentioned.

Download v1.01 from my home page

@rkorkie
Posts the result.

NTSITA

[jankster]

Ntsita,

Thanks for your responce. I'll chew on it for awhile and play around with it.

[rkorkie]

Hey Ntsita...thanx for the tool. I don't notice any difference in the output from CCE 2.01, however, maybe it's slightly more automated. Were those the improvements made?

[Ntsita]

Is anyone interested to 'Bach One Pass VBR' for many .avs input processing?

I'm very undecided if work on this.:rolleyes:

[rkorkie]

yes, that would be very handy. Typically I do my encoding in batches, so it would be nice if I could find the Q in batches. I've been experimenting with the Roba and the Bach method for transcoding, and I'm not convinced I can tell the differences. What do you think?

[Ntsita]

Only difference that i have noticed, is in the speed.:D :D :D

[VILLA21]

"...btw: my tip to guesstimate the final file size is GOP dependent. So, if you are setting the GOP in CCE using M=3 and N/M=4, you need to use
selectrangeevery(1200,12)..."

@Bach, how do u calculate the x,y values of the selecteveryrange command from M and N/M GOP values?

[Ntsita]

It's simple.
SelectRangeEvery (X,Y)...where
'Y' value= (M)x(N/M)
'X' value= 100 x Y

Hi.:)

[humet]

Hi,

Ntsita's Bach One Pass VBR v1.01 doesn't work properly on my computer, some of the mouse clicks are off a bit.

[Ntsita]

During automation, you don't move mouse and keyboard.
If you so did, please be more specific with problem.

[humet]

I do not move the mouse or keyboard.

The mouse clicks just above the title, and stops.

[Ntsita]

@Humet
Do you have loaded your *.avs in CCE before run 'Bach one Pass' tool?

[humet]

@ Ntsita

Yeh i have, what resolution does my screen have to be, does it matter?

thanks

[Ntsita]

No, it doesn't.
Then, when you run the tool, you:
enter the videofile size
accept the size entered
choose if encode whole movie
choose if shutdown pc (if choosen to encode whole movie)
enter in the 'open file' window the same avs already loaded in CCE

and tool stops here?

(i think you are in Main CCE Window when run the tool, right?)

[humet]

@ Ntsita

It does all of that, then, the main CCE Window moves, then the mouse cursor moves to just above the row with my AVS file loaded and it clicks.

[Ntsita]

The problem is in double-click mouse.
Try (when the tool is stopped... actually, it waits a window that doesn't appear) to double-click the avs line.
In this manner, the tool would go to next step.

However this, doesn't resolve the problem.

I'll try to resolve your problem two weeks later on (i'm in vacation for a week).

Hi.

[humet]

@Ntsita

After I Have double clicked the AVS line, It works, then it stops just above the OK button, it also doesn't change the QValue.

[whirlpool]

Bach - Question, does determinining the best Q value for Single Pass VBR give as accurate control over the overall reencoded size as using multipass VBR and setting the bitrate? Varying the Q value by 1 does not give as much control as varying the Avge Bit rate by 1, do you get my point?

I've re-written CCE_OPVBR_Q_Finder (mentioned in earlier posts) as it was incorrectly coded (This version uses scriptit and doesn't have any dependency on screen resolution).

It correctly finds the required Q value based on 1% of the film, but, wouldn't it be better to use 1% of the film and VBR 2 pass and optimise the average encoding rate to get a desired size.

It seems to me that varying the average bit rate must produce a finer level of control over the final size, (compared to varying Q. A difference of 1 in the q value can produce a significant difference in the final size).

[whirlpool]

Bach, thanks for the reply. Yes, I take your point, a good approximation to the desired size may be more preferable to some people than the extra time spent getting closer to the desired size.

I plan to do a test to convince myself that the results from the 1 pass Q approxiation method are visually as good as the multipass VBR method. Once I'm convinced, I'll use the 1 pass method for future reencode projects.

Thanks for the advice.

[The_Flash]

I was a big fan of running 5-passes w/ CCE. I've tried encoding using an optimal Q in v2.67 and I can visually see very little (if any) difference. That's a good thing. Consider me converted. Thanks to all for the helpful advice and useful tools.