Is there any way for contesting a strike ?

[waldok]

Hi,

Just a honest question. I've been striked twice recently in DVD2SVCD basic forum and I feel this is absolutely unfair.
(See the thread called "Can you do AVI>VCD in DVD2SVCD 1.10 build 1")

My fault there was to express my disagreement with mods behavior and their words towards a "newbie". No doubt their argument about using search engine first was right, but the way they put it was not acceptable, like directly threatening him with a strike and also threatening some other guy afterwards who was also trying to express his opinion : (quote from a mod there : The whole thing about a moderator isn't for you to worry about nor to tell us what it should be about. If you want to worry about moderating i suggest you get your own forum and be a moderator, but at this site your comments about moderating is not called for and i warn you not to keep up such course or i will take action against you.)

I find this kind of "dictator" answers unacceptable in a community forum and extremely hostile. Thus my reaction, (maybe overreacted a bit, but no insult thrown at anyone)

I was striked for infringement on rule 1 and 12 which is absolutely wrong since I didn't ask any question (rule 1) and I didn't insult anybody (rule 2).

My question is : is there some other "authority" than two "excessively proud" mods that can examine the facts and decide if I deserved these strikes or not.

My point here is not about the strikes themselves, but rather about the way this kind of mods will transform the forum into a place where no newbie will dare to ask any question anymore.

I completely agree about respecting the rules, but I disagree when mods act as small kings and can't react other than by striking people and closing the thread.

I'm not trying to start anything here, I'm more than grateful to all mods and people here for they really help a lot, but I think every participant is allowed to express his opinion.

Please let me know if I'm wrong.

Sorry for bothering here

Waldok.

[Koepi]

Waldok,

sorry, but those strikes are correct.

You didn't read the forum rules carefully it seems:
4) Be nice to each other and respect the moderator. Profanity and insults will not be tolerated. If you have a problem with another member turn to the respective moderator and if the moderator can't help you send a private message to Doom9.

And I think too that our moderating rules are not for discussing them - they're here to keep up the quality.

I agree that you should run a forum of your own a little to see how time consuming and ungrateful the work is. Everybody complains about your decisions.

We're putting much work into this forum and expect the users to do a little (_really_ just a little compared to what we do) work themselfes: respect the rules, search first before you ask questions. For low-quality and repeated questions/answers you can head over to other forums, they usually accept it.

Calling us dictators isn't a good turn. I really dislike that, and it shows your lack of respect. I for one won't take you serious any longer, and I think you deserve your third and fourth strike for rule no. 4 for this post above.

Koepi

[mpucoder]

But to answer the question - Yes, there is an appeal process. Bring the matter to the attention of Doom9. In this case you probably don't need to do anything as he has hopefully read this thread.

[Doom9]

well.. I've read it but I'm on my way to see LOTR II. But just fyi I'm no big fan of the "dragging things out in public" way of handling such issues. As quoted it says talk to the respective forum mod and if that doesn't help the admin.. don't complain in front of everybody.

[waldok]

So I'll live with this although I don't agree on all the points mentioned here (especially Koepi's way) But who cares . At least I got answers.

@koepi : It seems the term "dictator" takes a heavier sense in your language than in mine. Anyway...

@Doom9 I generally don't like "complaining to the whole world" but this was more a "real" question since it seeems there was no way to discuss this with the concerned mods (thread closed and strikes fall like rain...)

Anyway, thank you guys for taking the time to answer.

Waldok.
Strike-drops keep falling on my head....:p

[bkST88r[CTL]]

mods i think this topic is pretty much done, but i would just like to add something. I have been staff/admin on many boards, and it is truely a pain in the arse for people to try to argue every single thing. People make mistakes. sometimes they say things they dont want to, and people may interperet them in the wrong way. or you just f*cked up. either way, just live through it. its not the end of the world. the rules are here to make an enjoyable environment for everyone, and the worst thing you can do (*and will piss the staff off*) is to yell it way out in the open...i.e this thread

just my thoughts

-.02

[Mrafrohead]

I do understand the rules. But I do think that it is nice to see this type of thread in existance. Not for a flame fest, but more as an educator type of thing.

It allows the mods to see the frustration when things of that sort happen. It allows the members to see where the mods are coming from in this type of situation also.

@Keopi - your comment regarding the amount of work that you put into it and all. I totally hear you there.. I used to help out in a chan on EFNET. It was a selfhelp chan, yet everyone needed help. I worked my 455 off in that channel constantly. And most of the time, yes it was very hard work and totally thankless. Kept it up till the chan went to crap though;) It was fun. But I can relate. Lots of demands and very little thanks.

@Waldok - Something to remember. We're all human here. Sometimes people have bad days and are quick with their comments. Just let them roll off. I once had a disagreement with a person in the forum and both of us were rather harsh with each other. But that's life. You pick yourself up and move on with it. No biggy... Turns out later on I read some other stuff by the same person I got into the argument with. That person appears genuinely nice. Appears to have just been a fluke.:)

My experience in general with this forum/site. - Everyone here is usually VERY good with everyone. I know I have a very small post count, but I am here everyday reading and learning. And from what I have seen, 9/10 the mods are totally fair and in line in their calls. I think that the small percentage - probably related to bad days, as we all have them.

So now that I've written something long enough to be freakin published. I'm going to go.

OH yeah, @Doom9 - Please let us know how the movie was. I'm a broke azz mofo and can't afford to see it yet...

Mrafrohead

[bkST88r[CTL]]

i already watched it a week ago *shhh*....and i have to say im paying again to see it on theatres this weekend, its so kickass....holy crap its awesome! must see =)

[waldok]

Thanks MrAfro for peaceful words.

This thing has probably gone way too far and mostly because of me pushing it farther than it was supposed to. You're absolutely right, people have bad days, so OK. (I still would haev appreciated the two concerned mods to express their "good day" opinion here ...)

Plus I feel sometimes people have to say what they feel about things hoping it will help the forum get even better.

Sorry for all the noise.

Waldok:cool:

[Bach]

Originally posted by waldok
(...) I don't agree on all the points mentioned here (...) But who cares (...)


It is not a matter of agreement. It is just a matter of fact. There is no rule being broken in waldok posts. There is no profanity. There is no insult. Actually, there is respect and wisdom. If the mods want to stick with the rules, they must be fair enough to aply them and only them. Do not try to see hair on eggs.
Otherwise, this forum could have only one rule: "the rule is inside the mind of the moderators, and does't matter what rule it is. If you post here, you agree with this."

@ waldok
There is a reason to close a thread where somebody was striked. This way, the "guilty" cannot edit his posts in order to erase the prove of his fault. In this case, you are look enough.

"Nunca argumente com tolos. Eles o rebaixarão ao nível deles e o derrotarão por experiência."

[chainsaw135]

Don't forget to read how mister mozart/bach speaks in this thread Kinda pathetic if you ask me but he's 2 faced like that. What i mean by 2 faced is he speaks here as a noble man sticking up for the cause of others, but in reality he's just trying to start trouble. Why dont you have a few more drinks "you know what i'm talking about bach" http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21000&highlight=mozart

Bach or mozart which ever you want to be called by, like your any better man you had a chip on your shoulder the last 5 months you were moderator and not only that but instead of crossing your path i always stuck up for you because you were a moderator. I'm glad you decided to do the same for me, oh wait you didn't you stabbed me in the back just when i was not looking. I guess that shows who your friends really are online and i can say i'm glad your not a friend as you like double stepping people.


I remember when bach was not known to anyone and all he did was talk down to markrb try to show him up, it was pitiful. I then stuck up for you as everyone was getting sick of your chip, and rightly so. I for one dont have a chip and dont intend on getting one but the facts are i see how you snake your way around acting like you know it all. bach/mozart is something you do well but in fact, you dont know how to keep friends as your all for yourself. With you not thinking Waldok did anything wrong is really not your concern and i'm not sure why you stuck your trouble making nose in it other then markrb is part of this situation and you like starting stuff with him.

Regarding Waldok you could of gotten 2 strikes from me right off the bat simply because you jumped in a thread when you had a problem with the procedures that were being implemented. Your a smart person so it wasen't done out of ignorence as it clearly states in rule "4)If you have a problem with another member turn to the respective moderator and if the moderator can't help you send a private message to Doom9".
Thats all you had to do, and instead you wanna post your comments in main which did you no good, and for that you recieved a strike from me and instead of learning from that you kept it up so you got another strike. You seem smarter then that so instead of taking a hint you thought well i'll push this as far as i can. If you really wanted answers if you really wanted what you say is an understanding of what happened you could of paged an admin or doom9. But instead you drag it out in main again not learning from the past, i feel you deserve to take some time off maybe 30 days would be good enough.

[Doom9]

I'm back from the movie and an after party. It was good but somehow I was a little disappointed as they didn't stick as closely to the storyline in the books as in the first one and the movie ended even more abruptly than the first one.
Maybe I have to read the 2nd book again to make sure everything I thought should be in the 2nd movie is really in the 2nd book.

[ArdenDag]

It's not just you, Doom9. This movie left the storyline a lot more than the first. A lot of naysayers have complained, but I could have cared less :D

[?¿öM¿?]

Seeing as how everyone else is throwing in their two cents, i'll do the same. I work as part of a team that moderates, maintains and troubleshoots a large, private, online software development server. It is a thankless job(that pays very well) where all you recieve is constant criticism and complaining from 100's of uppity, know-it-all programmers who are more concerned with pointing out the minor flaws in everything, than in the good job you are doing. Moderators put in alot of time and effort into what they do and never get the appreciation they deserve. If they tend to be a bit short and ruthless with people who are being silly or unreasonable, then tough cookies. Sometimes a administrators will make a decision which is harsher than called for, but the responsibility for that decision being made lies purely in the hands of the offending perpetrator. Publically airing a potential dispute without going through the proper channels is a poor solution to the problem and is the fastest way to get a united front turned against you. This forum is very good, few duplicate topics and a friendly, helpful environment for people with sensible questions and comments. It is a shame that a thread like this exists.

I would like to say that all the moderators do a fantastic job and I thankyou for it. The fact that you share your time and knowledge despite there being little real benefit to you is commendable. You all deserve a pat on the back.

/SUB TOPIC
LOFR2 isn't out till boxing day in Australia:(

[waldok]

Chainsaw, sorry to see you are so narrow-minded and that you have such a high opinion of yourself.
I should even apologize for daring to chat with you, is that it ?
Your personal attacks against Bach/Mozart ("see who yuor irends are ???") show your poor abilities to deal with your role of moderator here. Do you know what "to moderate" means in a dicionary? well have a look...

I respect the rules, most mods here are cool, forum is the best I've seen, but as a person, I won't accept the way you behave.
Perfect example of what a mod should NOT be (and what a mod usually isn't). Arrogant and taking advantage of a small power.
so use your little power as you wish.
Now you can call this whatever you want and strike, ban since it seems that's the way it works with you.

No disrespect to the mod function, which is really well done here, but I can't agree on this behavior.
I'm really sorry for all the noise my post generated and I agree that I probably shouldn't have put it in here directly, but Chainsaw, no way.
First time ever since I participate in forums (and it's been a few years) that I gave such a pointless conflict with someone. I guess this is not your case.

Waldok still :cool:

[chainsaw135]

I just want to add that people like you are going to cause dvd2vcd to stop working with his program. People like you are selfish and can ruin the whole experience for everyone. Oh and waldok, i'll c-ya in 30 days. Strike # 3 after the 30 days if you get 3 more strikes in a months time, your gone for life so keep that in mind:)

[dvd2svcd]

@Waldok: You are a Troll nothing else. Stay away from this board. You are _not_ welcome. If you cared to read what other moderators on other boards et al has to say about your behaviour you'd know that you were barking up the wrong tree. But, you apparently don't know when to shut up and continue to be obnoxious, therefore you're per definition a Troll and Trolls are not welcome, so do us all a favor stay away.

[Swede]

It's not a joyful task being a moderator...

Fact no.1: This is not a democracy or a 'freedom of speech-board'! (That's why we do have the rules (http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm))
Fact no.2: There are, clearly stated, routines to follow if you feel 'treated unfair'.

(And I'm certain that none of the mods here *enjoys* using the Strike-button BUT it is sometimes necessary. We, the mods, are not appointed to boast our own egos but to keep the standards high and since this thread is no way near "THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion" it is now closed.)

[Doom9]

Okay, I've just come back and had to reopen and reclose the thread to add my words (executive decision, you know ;)

1 strike was given for http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?postid=226951#post226951
I personally find that moderators sometimes tend to act as if they were invested with a divine mission.
Guys, didn't you ever start something from scratch, remember when you were a total newbie, didn't know where to search, what to do ? There will always be someone out there to flame you for a question you found legitimate. So...
My feeling is some mods are perfect newbies as far as human relationship is concerned.

(And I don't say anything about "mods disciples", always ready to say amen to what the leader says, no matter if he is wrong of right...
I see this as an insult directed at the mods, which could get up to 2 strikes (actually it should). And as a personal note when I was a newbie I spend months reading docs and testing on my own.. I didn't get on anybody's nerve asking questions that had been previously asked. And then I decided to share what I've learned. You can count the number of times when I have asked stupid questions regarding ripping matters on one hand. I respected that the knowledgeable few had better things to do than explain the same thing 10 times over. And unless you're a mod in a major board there's no way you can possibly understand the frustrating seeing the same question asked for the 1000th time can cause.

2nd strike was given for http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?postid=227339#post227339. That's one that could possibly be contested if you go through the proper channels. But if you don't, it's like you're taking the law into your own hands and you won't be cut any slack anymore.

2 more strikes (which result in a 30 days suspension) for http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?postid=227857#post227857. That's a rule4 strike if I've ever seen one. In fact a rule4 strike could've been given even for the first post as it insults both markrb and chainsaw315 ("two "excessively proud" mods ").

Now if he had gone through the correct channels to complain the 2nd strike might have been removed and he'd still be an active member here. And even with his first two posts in this very thread he might have gotten away with it. But knowing when to stop is apparently pretty hard...


Bottom line: We have given out a lot less strikes in recent months than when the strike feature was first introduced. We've had several internal talks and agreed to not always strike right away but point out the rule violations nevertheless. It also shows bad taste to start flamewars by trying to push a moderator's buttons and jump into issues that do not concern you. If Wam7 feels like he's been treated unfairly he can contact me and we'll sort it out. But if anyone has the right to complain that would be Wam7. Contrary to the legal system we don't have lawyers who present a case for other people.. you either present your own case or you leave it. So far very few people have contested strikes. They either accepted them or the went on a crusade as this one and it always ended badly. Keep in mind that some people have been suspended thanks to 2 posts. So, if you're getting a strike you feel is unjustified, do what the rules say, talk to a forum mod via PM!!!! and if that doesn't help pm me. If you go public you forfeit your right to a fair trial and you risk suspension when you don't know when to shut up.
No member of the moderator team is on a power trip or likes to kick people when they're down. And as swede said, moderating is a chore, personally I don't like doing it as it's a very ungrateful job but somebody has to do it and I think that the people not liking it too much are the right people for the job - they're not interested in the power but in doing good for the community.

Now let's all go back to more pleasant business.