Project Announcement : New Media Container Format

[Liisachan]

Originally posted by Defiler
Since, unlike OggMux, VirtualDubMod is aware of both the keyframes and the chapters.. is this a feature that is being looked into?
Edit: I meant for all formats that support chapters, (i.e. Matroska as well as OGM)

maybe VirtualDubMod will work fine for making chapters,
by inserting I-frames properly when compressing.
I m using OggMux and normal VDub to make OGM, and i'll need KeyframeForcer for this purpose (editing .stats file)
http://pat2k2.bei.t-online.de/

sorry to be getting off-topic. i just wanted to say there were not so many keyframes generally......

[ChristianHJW]

Please note that matroska will not necessarily need a keyframe to be able to seek to a specific point in the movie, as matroska's seektable will contain ( in most cases, as per choice of the user ) not only a specific frame that is being played at a certain time, but also the frame(s) its depending from, so its relatively easy and fast to seek even to non-keyframes.
Of course, having a keyframe at a chapter start is always recommended, to allow editing/cutting on chapters, and because seeking will of course be faster when pointing to a keyframe, so the existing tools to set a keyframe on a chapter starting point by modifying the stats file will do a good service also for matroska ....

[robUx4]

I've reduced the size of elements in a Cue to (worst case) :

K 1+1+1+1+3+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+4 = 19 bytes
P 19+1+1+1+1+3+1+1+4 = 32 bytes
B 32+1+1+3+1+1+4 = 43 bytes

This size may vary (reduced) depending on the length of your movie.

Originally posted by Liisachan [/B]

The test clip was 468f, w 3 keyframes (I), 23.976fps, 19.52sec.
So if I unterstand your memo correctly...

In this case, The size is :
K 17 bytes
P 28 bytes
B 37 bytes

(2) if I can add more "CuePoints" in this smart manner:
- CuePoints must be inserted so that there s alywas at least one CuePoint in each 0.5 sec. (This will enable you to seek freely from any scene to any scene, better than older containers)
- If possible, a CuePoint is inserted on an I-frame, or else it will be on a P-frame.

Since the clip was 19.52 sec, there would be some 40 CuePoints;
3 of which would be inserted on I, 37 on P:
17*3 + 28*37 + 10 = 1325 Bytes ... Correction Value

[ Corrected II ]
xvid+mp3cbr.avi 2,352KB (2,408,448 Bytes)
xvid+vorbis.ogm 2,340KB (2,396,092 Bytes)
xvid+mp3cbr.mkv 2,328KB (2,383,804 Bytes)
xvid+vorbis.mkv 2,321KB (2,376,608 Bytes)

Conclusion: No big changes :)

NOTE: We dont know yet what will happen when we mux more than 2 files as an MKV.

OGM is excellent in this point: the overhead will be about the same even if you mux 8 streams (like 1 video + 1 audio + 6 subs)
I hope the same is true for MKV too.

In MKV it's linear (the more tracks you add, the more overhead).

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by Liisachan
NOTE: We dont know yet what will happen when we mux more than 2 files as an MKV.

OGM is excellent in this point: the overhead will be about the same even if you mux 8 streams (like 1 video + 1 audio + 6 subs)
I hope the same is true for MKV too.

:) taking such an exemple is not good ;)
Subtitle tracks generally don't take that much space (text files), and so don't represent a noticeable overhead.
The funny thing is that when you look at it carefully the relative overhead on a subtitle track is far bigger (can easily reach up to 50% of overhead) than on other (video / audio) tracks.

But I believe that if you add another audio track you will also add the overhead generated by this track (and this overhead shouldn't change because there are already other tracks in your OGM file).
In this respect OGM and Matroska work the same way : the overhead is cumulative.

[ChristianHJW]

libmatroska was officially released to developers on the matroska project page on sourceforge today :

http://sf.net/projects/matroska

The library has 'official' status now, as most of the main features are implemented now and it has been tested on various platforms also, including

Windows
Linux
BeOS

All developers wanting to support matroska in their apps are motivated to start doing so, we promise they will get every possible support from the matroska development team.

Currently there is implementation work done for

Virtualdub ( alpha available )
DirectShow parser
Linux muxer ( alpha available )
mplayer playback ( Linux ; alpha available )
Xine playback ( Linux )
Gstreamer encoding/playback ( Linux )

[Teegedeck]

Congratulations to the team!

You've done it, thanks a lot! Now, I'm looking forward to a directshow filter + matroskadub...

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Teegedeck Congratulations to the team!

Thanks mate ! Its really incredible, after a pretty long time of starvation and pain its running pretty well now. The team is growing constantly, in an average by one member every 2 weeks, just because more and more people feel matroska is worth contributing. Yesterday i was in the situation that a new team member asked me what to do next and i couldnt give him an immediate reply really .... thats a completely new situation ... LOL :D !

You've done it, thanks a lot! Now, I'm looking forward to a directshow filter + matroskadub...

Mate, we know each other for a pretty long time .. just drop me an email and you're in the alpha test team. With respect to the DirectShow parser/splitter : MyFUN is back from vacation and already working hard to get a first alpha out of the door, while Mosu could play XviD and Vorbis already in his mplayer patch end of last week ;) ...

[Teegedeck]

Hehe, I'm planning on a little CPU-upgrade for this week or next; after that I'll be good alpha-tester material, again. (Or average at least, unlike now...)

[frodoontop]

First I'd like to say this sure looks like a great project. What I would like to know, is there any date or whatsoever which enables the average guy here around to use it?
Are there for windows XP already players available or when will they be? And I tried searching for it, but I couldn't find matroskadub. Maybe it's just not public yet. But when will this be?
Just a few questions, hope you don't mind...

[ChristianHJW]

The existing code of matroska's DShow filter was now uploaded to CVS, but the filter isnt working yet unfortunately :( .... we hope myFUN will find the error soon.

If the filter is working we plan to make a 2 weeks alpha testing phase with our alpha test team, and will then release all we have as public beta material.

So, in best case we talk about 2 weeks, in very worst case 6 weeks from now ....

[Defiler]

Could you release VirtualDub 2.0 while you're at it? :D

[Atamido]

Originally posted by frodoontop
Are there for windows XP already players available or when will they be? And I tried searching for it, but I couldn't find matroskadub. Maybe it's just not public yet.
Matroskadub is not yet public, but it isn't ready yet anyway. It can mux video and audio into an .MKV file, but it cannot play the audio when previewing it. This version is also, unfortunately, built off of VirtualDubMod 1.4.13.1, and is integrated using a hack in the OGM hack. While it certainly works and produces good files, this is less than optimal. Siuryc has said that Matroska will be fully integrated in the 1.5 tree of VDMod using ((snip). I'm not sure if I'm supposed to talk about that, so I won't)

But yes, when the public beta is announced, it will be with MatroskaDub, a DShow filter, an MPEG-Audio to MKA muxer, Linux mplayer with Matroska support, and a Linux MKV muxer, with everything fully opensource. (I think thats everything?)

The Matroska team is also trying to enlist help with an AVISynth Matroska filter, C libmatroska, MPEG1/2 to Matroska tool, and various other tools to help the transition move as quickly as possible.

[spyder]

I am already working on the MPEG 1/2 muxer for video only. If anyone is experienced enough or interested enough, you can make a full program stream transmuxer. My problem with doing that is motivation. It seems to be an extremely long task which I don't have time for. The code I am working on now takes only elementary streams as input, thus making only simple MKV files with one stream. I may integrate the code into Mosu's mkvmerge so you can mux M1V, Vorbis, MP3, etc... in any combination. :D

[multicone]

bump .... a historic thread !

[sillKotscha]

bump .... a historic thread !

and for what reason the bummer??

the project is dead/ replaced by matroska...

[joseph5]

the project is dead/ replaced by matroska...The project IS Matroska.

[multicone]

and for what reason the bummer??

the project is dead/ replaced by matroska...


Sorry, just seen the replies. Guess i have to visit Doom9 more often :D !

Yes, this was the official project announcement of matroska project those days.

I wonder what the founders (robux4, ChristianHJW) are doing today ? It seems only mosu is still active, improving mkvtoolnix ??