The wall dvd master problem

[janosch]

Hi,
i have some serious probs with my "the wall" dvd.
The source file format is PAL interlaced, for encoding i use the deinterlace filter in virtualdub.
At the result, i have no horizontal lines but the ghost shadow are still there.
The following pic from the DVD master shows you what i mean.

http://info.mac.bei.t-online.de/thewallproblem.jpg

knows anybody this problem ?

[DJ Bobo]

Hooo, that's a bad one! PAL movie and interlaced? that's a rare one!

In AviSynth, enter

separatefields

And look carefully at the fields in VirtualDub. If you see blends within the fields, you can't do anything about it, just deinterlace.
Don't use decomb, just enter the following in your AVS:

blendfields()

If you don't see blends, decomb may solve your problem:

Telecide()

[janosch]

thanks, i will follow your advice.
I know AviSynth, but decomb?
I look for guides on the mainpage.

CU

[iago]

@janosch

I have that troublesome rarity too! ;) And I still haven't found the best way to encode it properly, getting rid of all the annoying artifacts.

You may try Telecide(post=true,blend=false) in your script. Who knows? Maybe you like the results then, compared to other methods.

Briefly, I can say that that DVD is a real "pain in the a**" ! ;)

iago

[DJ Bobo]

decomb is a plug-in for avisynth.
You load it that way:

loadplugin("...\decomb.dll")

and then directly after the mpeg2source line, you write the telecide command.

That if you need decomb anyway, because as I said, in the first case where you see blends in the fields, IMHO you're better off with blendfields() directly after the mpeg2source line.

The best remains, you sell your DVD or return it, and buy the NTSC one. May be that one is better.

[janosch]

:p thanks for your help !!!!

here my avs script, have you any advice for me ?

LoadPlugin("c:\programme\avisynth2\MPEG2DEC.dll")
mpeg2source("d:\wall\vts_04.d2v")
loadplugin("c:\programme\avisynth2\decomb.dll")
Telecide(post=true,blend=false)
crop(2,72,-2,-72)
LanczosResize(704,288)

edit: now it looks better but the playback is jumping ?

CU:)
Result (http://info.mac.bei.t-online.de)

[DJ Bobo]

I told ya, you must use Blendfields() and not Telecide if you see blends within the fields.

[hakko504]

neuron2 pointed out yesterday that unless guide!=0 telecide can create jerky video. Try this:
Originally posted by janosch
LoadPlugin("c:\programme\avisynth2\MPEG2DEC.dll")
mpeg2source("d:\wall\vts_04.d2v")
loadplugin("c:\programme\avisynth2\decomb.dll")
Telecide(guide=2,post=true,blend=false)
crop(2,72,-2,-72) #(8,76,-8,-76) will give a much faster encoding ;)
LanczosResize(704,288)

edit: now it looks better but the playback is jumping ?

[janosch]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
I told ya, you must use Blendfields() and not Telecide if you see blends within the fields.
i try Blendfields, it din't work.


@hakko504 also your suggestion "Telecide(guide=2,post=true,blend=false)"
result's in jumping playback.

@iago have you sloved all problems with this DVD ?


new test result's (http://info.mac.bei.t-online.de/)

[manono]

Hi-

Maybe next try:

Telecide(guide=2)

and see if you prefer the blending to the interpolating. It should play more smoothly though.

[iago]

@iago have you sloved all problems with this DVD ?

No man! I wish I had! ;) None of my tries pleased me and I just put it aside! ;)

Good luck!
iago

[janosch]

Originally posted by manono

Telecide(guide=2)


no, same as the other.

a friend told me he had the same trouble with Terminator1 and Abyss.
In the end Fairuse was the only solution to slove it.

later a will make further tests with AviSynth and for fun with fairuse.

edit:
I made 20 or more test's with different settings, but nothing works.
new pics (http://info.mac.bei.t-online.de/neu)

CU

[DJ Bobo]

@ janosh
No, Blendfields works the best.
This is an interlaced PAL stream, which was produced using blends & interlacing & stuff.

Now, if you use Telecide on such a thing, you won't ever ever get a smooth playback, no matter what settings you put in!

If you use Blendfields, you'll get the best *possible* playback, but *never* 100% smooth, because your source is crap!

You can test up and down as long as you want, you won't ever ever become a smooth clean stream.

As said, if you're encoding to DivX, no matter what you do, you won't get better results than with Blendfields.

Do a search in the AviSynth forum, you'll find at least 2 threads talking about interlaced PAL DVDs, you'll find the same (painful) answer.

[janosch]

@DJ Bobo
yes, it was trial and i have a learnd little bit more about video and so on.
Thanks for your help.

CU

:)

[manono]

Yes-it seems as if comes with the fields already blended. If the NTSC version was interlaced (I've never seen it, so I don't know), then when converting to PAL, that sort of thing will happen. There's another thing you can try (although it works better at lower resolutions than higher resolutions):

SeparateFields()
SelectOdd() #or SelectEven(), depending on which looks better (fewer blends)

That knocks out one of the fields and half the blending (assuming the blended fields were evenly distributed among the odd and even fields). It has the drawback of cutting your vertical resolution in half (before being resized), but if the source is so lousy, it won't make much difference. But it will reduce the blending or ghost images by quite a bit.

[DJ Bobo]

... and make the playback even more jerky ;)

[manono]

Hi-

... and make the playback even more jerky

Maybe. But he's got triple images in some of those pictures. At least this way he should be down to a maximum of two, and many will no longer be ghosted at all. There's no perfect solution for that sort of thing. Even Fair Use, as good as it is, can't help in this case. The Wall PAL DVD must be really bad news for Master Tester iago to have given up on it. This must be what some of your PAL anime looks like, DJ Bobo. In such cases hakko504 recommends putting a spatial smoother in the script to try and hide some of the ghosting.

[hakko504]

Originally posted by manono
Hi-

... and make the playback even more jerky
In such cases hakko504 recommends putting a spatial smoother in the script to try and hide some of the ghosting... .. and also putting Convolution3D in there can help somewhat also. If you give me a few hours I will go home and have a look at my copy of 'The Wall' a to see how it looks, and see if I can find something useful that hasn't been suggested yet.

[iago]

@manono, hakko504, and DJ Bobo

Well, I kept my silence on the issue for a while and just examined the results janosch got upon your advises, because I myself am really so tired of working on this movie, or perhaps better to say, on this real crappy source ;).

From time to time, my muse touches me with her magic wand and tells me to try again and then I do try with all vigour and determination, but all the effort results in disappointment, and I give up one more time! This is the story of this movie on my part ;).

But now, encouraged by all your support, I am starting to feel an irresistable urge again to give a final blow to "The Wall"! ;)

best regards,
iago

[Emp3r0r]

The best remains, you sell your DVD or return it, and buy the NTSC one. May be that one is better.

I have the NTSC one and I just happened to find my backup of it too. I took a look at it and it looks supurb. PM me if you own the inferior PAL version.

[Emp3r0r]

no problems here

[hakko504]

Gotta face the truth, the PAL transfer of this DVD is the worst I've seen so far. Texas Chainsaw Massacre wasn't good, but this one is a step downward from that.