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Shootist
7th December 2002, 20:01
i think the audio codecs of realvideo are nearly at the same level of mp3, but they are not so good to handle in normal PC-Life, because of the support for free players like winamp. also, you can not choose directly the vbr, 99kbps e.g. are not possible.

back to vid, I used .smil files to create subtitles and to use mp3-vbr files with rv9. I think there is no other way to do this, right? This is maybe the biggest disadvantage of rv9. and when I tried to play them with realoneplayer the subs are only able to be displayed on a black bar, not with the picture in the background. also the realoneplayer had some problems with the variable-bitrate-mp3-files. the sound was not sync to the vid. another point is, that ogg is not supported yet. is this due to the video-codecs or is this a problem of the player. are there other player which can play smil files, so you can use ogg? (e.g. the mpc:confused: )
iwod
7th December 2002, 22:58
This may be a bit off topic, but i have notice how the nice effect that a Real Codec core programmer has joined the discussion group. since real always have a reputation of not very good, even though RV( was a big achievement. The programmer from them in the discussion could stir things up a bit... :D
RadicalEd
8th December 2002, 00:20
@ shootist:
well I dont wanna start an argument but in my experience and tests RA is better than mp3, mp3 pro, wma, and even vorbis. I especially like the fact that it can go down to 64kbps without degenerating into the horrible artifacting mess that the rest of the codecs suffer from :D

btw there is a way to have the subtitles overlayed on the video and not in a black bar, you have to add this to the top of the smil file:

<smil xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/SMIL20/Language" xmlns:rn="http://features.real.com/2001/SMIL20/Extensions">

right before <head>

and then this to the textstream src:

rn:backgroundOpacity="0%" rn:mediaOpacity="100%"

heres an example smil script

<smil xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2001/SMIL20/Language" xmlns:rn="http://features.real.com/2001/SMIL20/Extensions">
<head>
<layout>
<root-layout backgroundColor="black" width="640" height="480"/>
<region id="video_region" z-index="1"/>
<region id="text_region" top="430" z-index="4"/>
</layout>
</head>
<body>
<par>
<video src="intro.rmvb" region="video_region" fill="remove"/>
<textstream src="intro.rt" region="text_region" rn:backgroundOpacity="0%" rn:mediaOpacity="100%" fill="freeze"/>
</par>
</body>
</smil>

the halo color can be controlled by the bgcolor property in the .rt file and the main color is controlled by the font color property, like this

<window duration="0:01:39.00" width="640" height="50" wordWrap="true" loop="true" bgcolor="black">
<font color="red" face="Arial" size="+2">

however its not a very soft or large halo and sometimes seeing the subs can be tricky depending on the video behind it :\
buba king
9th December 2002, 00:01
Originally posted by RadicalEd
@ shootist: I especially like the fact that it can go down to 64kbps without degenerating into the horrible artifacting mess that the rest of the codecs suffer from :D

And vorbis can't. sheesh... :rolleyes:


As for the XviD vs. RV9 disussion, I fully support Marc FD on this, I like many other have done extensive tests, and XviD is IMBO the best choice for 600kbit/s +.

but whatever floats your boat i guess.
RadicalEd
9th December 2002, 00:14
with the samples I've encoded vorbis at 64kbps gets all clinky metallic sounding like wma :/

nice avatar btw :D
iwod
9th December 2002, 13:56
may be after a RV9 forum is set up things will clear up a bit.....
iwod
9th December 2002, 14:22
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Thanks!


I will run this same 2cd experiment and see what I come up. With regards to alternative audio formats, I will reply again on Dec. 9th. Stay tuned!

9th of dec now....... waiting for your reply....
The Belgain
9th December 2002, 14:38
9th of dec now....... waiting for your reply....

I second that...
Shootist
9th December 2002, 14:42
I also noticed such a metallic sound in ogg with 128kbps. then I compared it with mp3-128. sounded good. BUT when I listened to the original wav-file, I noticed, that ogg sounded exactly like the wav and mp3 with more bass. it`s the same at low bitrates. ogg sounds nearly exactly like the original. you are maybe right that realmedia has no problems with "horrible artifacting mess", but I made also a comparison. 64kbps-ogg vs 64kbps-realmedia. it`s the same like with mp3. to much bass. and there is also another problem. I used a heavy-metal song from "hammerfall". the guitare in rm was very artifacted. also the backgroundvoice of the song was not so good. with ogg it was no problem.
and now it`s time to praise the great opensource. I think it will take some time while there will be some improvements of realmedia. ogg has much support, nowadays also in commercial programs. it gets stronger and stronger. like xvid. so the question which video/audio codec to choose isn´t so hard. the differences aren`t so big between free and well-supported codecs and commercial progs. so every normal thinking user should choose his freedom, not the controling of big companies. but you have to recognize the work of realnetworks, because they are doing great work.
karl_lillevold
9th December 2002, 16:05
Originally posted by iwod
9th of dec now....... waiting for your reply....

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021209/nym046_1.html

---- start of quote -----

As with the Helix DNA Client, the free Helix DNA Producer source code will allow developers to build applications that support any file format from any operating system platform. Application developers will also be able to readily access code to integrate RealAudioŽ, RealVideoŽ and Ogg Vorbis output..

[...snip...]

The Helix DNA Producer offers a robust platform for further development. Features available in the Helix Community include:

[...snip...]

* Ogg Vorbis support

[...snip...]

---- end of quote -----

There is a webcast at 11am PST (see helixcommunity.org web site).
Shootist
9th December 2002, 18:59
didn`t know that, may need to "update" my knowledge about rv9...
gabest
10th December 2002, 04:48
Just wanted to mention that the latest release of mpc (http://vobsub.edensrising.com/mpc.php) can subtitle over realmedia. If anyone is interested.
ChristianHJW
10th December 2002, 06:24
gabest,

are you aware that Frank Klemms audio codec ( that will soon go opensource BTW ) is also called MPC ?

Not that it matters much, just informing you ...

http://audiocoding.com/wiki/index.php?page=MPC
gabest
10th December 2002, 06:35
Yea... but I didn't know about it when I quickly came up with the name of "media player classic" (it happened around july, a long time ago).
Shootist
10th December 2002, 10:14
is the mpc (media player classic) :-) able to play smil files?
gabest
10th December 2002, 10:47
It can open everything what realone can with its installed plugins, but actually I meant srt/sub/ssa/... kind of subtitles.
Valky
10th December 2002, 16:44
how is it suppose to use these -srt or .sub format with realmedia?

I have encoded realmedia movie, but if I play it with mpc the button for 'load subtitles' is greyed?
jcsston
12th December 2002, 07:09
One major benefit I believe RV9 has is the cross-platform player, older players can easily download the new codec (unlike XviD & DivX) and it's audio is much better than mp3 in my opinion.
RealVideo was the first ever codec I used, and I was amazed at the quality at low bitrates.
gabest
12th December 2002, 07:25
Originally posted by Valky
how is it suppose to use these -srt or .sub format with realmedia?

I have encoded realmedia movie, but if I play it with mpc the button for 'load subtitles' is greyed? Menu/View/Options.../RealMedia/First check box at the top