Problem with menu subpicture aspect ratio in Scenarist

[UTec]

Sorry if this was answered before. I did a search but did find an answer. I'm still new to Scenarist and I've been trying for 2 days to find a solution to no avail.

I have finished re-authoring Spider-man NTSC from scratch. Everything works fine except that the menu subpicture does not "fit" the menu when played back on TV.

In VTS overview of original VTS_01_0.IFO, Menu attributes:

Video: MPEG2 720x480 (NTSC 525/60) 16:9 pan-scan

I imported the menu video streams and those are all reported to be "4:3 (pan-scan)" by the property browser (4:3 pan-scan???? ... forgive my ignorance but isn't that an oxymoron? ... shouldn't it be 16:9 pan-scan?.... I thought I had some grasp on aspect ratios but this throws the whole thing out the window for me... I'm confused now.... anyway).

I extracted the menu subpictures with Subrip from VTS_01_0.VOB, adjusted them with Paintshop to 720x480 pixels and saved them as 4-color BMP's (as I always do). I imported them in the Track editor as required, adjusted the subpic and highlight start time and everything works as it should interms of timing.

The problem that in pan-scan display mode in the simulation window, the menu video BG stream in the preview mode is "stretched" sideways but the subpicture doesn't "follow". In the tab "Subpicture and Highlight", "Image", "Stream" radio button, Display mode is "Wide/Pan".

I tried setting it to Pan only but when I try to multiplex the project, I get an error message to the effect that:

"subpiture in undefined language should have at least one Wide and one Pan setting"

... and refuses to mux the VOB titleset

So I have no choice but to set it to that... (this is reflected by the the W and P buttons being pressed in the Track Editor). I need to force that subpicture to go to pan-scan along with the video BG otherwise the position of the buttons is wrong.

In Maestro, I authored the same menus without any problems. I always set my menus to 16:9 and in the Project properties, I set the "16x9 menu aspect ratio" radio button to "Force to pan-scan". And the menu buttons are exactly where they should be on the burned DVD-R.

But in Scenarist, I have searched and searched and simply cannot find the way to make that subpic layer to the same aspect ratio as the video stream BG.

Such a simple detail in Maestro, so complicated in Scenarist :(
Please, can anybody help and tell me what I'm doing wrong here?

[UTec]

Well since nobody seems to know the answer, I guess I'll have to answer it myself. ;)

I found it on the Sonic site in the most unexpected place: in the FAQ for DVD Creator, an authoring tool for Mac (the quick and dirty type, not like Scenarist at all).

"16:9 - DVD uses anamorphic images for 16:9. These anamorphic images are scaled by the DVD player according to the type of TV the user has. However, the player does not scale the subpicture overlay. This means that separate overlays must be created for each display mode. The procedure for this is outlined below:

First create the background and overlay for 16:9 in 854x480. You can resize the background to 720x480 to create the anamorphic image. Save a copy of this image."

So the player (and the simulation window in Scenarist) can resize the video stream, the highlight layer (the button areas) but not the subpic?... Well, that's news to me. I would have thought that once everything was multiplexed together that all "layers" of a picture stream were sort of "interlocked"... I guess I assumed this because Maestro does all the "subpicture stretching" for you automatically so it's transparent to the user... Scenarist is a totally different beast.

Anyway, you learn something new everyday I guess. :)

So that explains the need for 2 settings in the Build error message when trying to create the VTS titleset:

"Display Mode of Language Not Specified shall have at least one wide and panscan setting"

So the solution was to create a new subpicture that would fit the pan-scan display mode for the menus from the one I already had that fits widescreen mode (which is never used). The excerpt from the DVD Creator FAQ gave the basic idea but not the exact solution. I found that I had to do the opposite and use a different size. After much trial and error, I found the recipe that worked (for me):

1. I resized my 720 x 480 subpicture bitmaps (originally extracted with Subrip from VTS_01_0) in Paintshop to 960 x 480 (854 x 480 turned out not to be enough). This produced the lateral picture stretching effect I needed.

2. The I cropped the bitmap to 720 x 480 again and re-imported in the Scenarist Data editor.

3. I created an extra subpicture stream in the Track editor for each menu and set the P (pan-scan) blue button on subpic 1 and the W (widescreen) blue button on subpic 2.

4. I dragged the stretched subpicture in Subpic stream 1 and the original one in subpic stream 2.

Now that Scenarist has the "2 settings" it needs, it didn't complain during multiplexing of the VOB's and now my menus subpicture are perfectly aligned with the video backgound (and the button areas) during playback in pan-scan mode. :D

[dan]

Of course, this is too little help, too late, but I looked into the subpicture streams of another commercial DVD [I don't have Spiderman], and each display mode has its own stream....for example, the disc I looked at [The Salton Sea..anamorphic menus] has the (anamorphically compressed) wide subpics in stream #1 and the pan-scan adjusted subpics in stream #2. [They happen to be labelled as English for #1 and Spanish for #2, but, of course, that's irrelevant.] Maybe Spiderman is completely different than this set-up, but extracting the bitmaps from both streams would save the step of doing the resize then crop to create the pan-scan subpicture. Of course, now that you've answered your question, and solved your own problem, this probably isn't terribly helpful information, but maybe it could be helpful in the future? Sorry, but I didn't actually try the stuff within Subrip until after your second post, and of course, maybe the Spiderman DVD isn't like the one I looked at at all.

Hope I'm being of some help,
Dan

[UTec]

Dan, I feel like an idiot :)

You're absolutely right about the subpic streams for the menus: 0x20 and 0x21, one for each aspect ratio. Spiderman is no exception so I don't even have an excuse here. I should have stopped and wondered about the reason for 2 subpic streams in menu VOB's while browsing through them in VOBrator. The answer was right there under my nose :rolleyes:

I guess that's the downside of using Maestro for so long. It does everything for you automatically and sort of "shields" you from having to worry about the intricate details of DVD authoring. Oh well, live and learn as they say :)

Your post was definitely very helpful to me. Thanks for saving me a ton of work (there's 36 x 2 subpics in the menus of my current project).

[dan]

****solved it, look at post after this****


[well, I guess we're even...subpicture help vs. menu help...a good trade in my opinion]

The project I'm working on is of my own content, so I'm unable to just rip, demux, and import, so it's a true hassle in every regard...
You said that the button areas [highlight layer] that are defined within Scenarist are dynamically adjusted along with the 16:9 video [unlike the subpicture streams]. I can't seem to get this to work. Do I need to set a highlight layer for each display mode? [this'd seem impossible, as i do believe there's a max of one highlight layer.]
If you'd like, check out these screen captures and explanations demonstrating my problem...

There was a link here, but I've taken it down because the problem is solved, if you want to see the example I made, private message me...

I think that page better explains my problem/question than lengthy paragraphs could.

A possible solution could almost be to design the menus with this problem in mind [make the highlight area big enough that it contains where the subpictures are for both wide and panscan], but to quote myself, "I wouldn't think that "Hollywood" would go this route, so I figure I'm just doing something wrong or ignorantly." Any ideas anyone?

Thanks in advance,
Dan

[dan]

Figured it out...

Each display mode can have it's own areas defining where buttons lie. In the simulation window, choose whichever display mode you're working with, draw your buttons, then switch the other display mode, and drag the edges of the buttons so that they are the shape [because of the pan and scanning applied by the player] and size you need.

How wonderfully predictable for Scenarist.

Dan