Wav to AC3

[Bigslava]

I am still trying to get answer of how to convert my stereo Wav file into AC3,
to burn on DVD with my captured home movie. I have read all information on DOOM9 forum and BESweat and did not found any information. I would ask somebody who has
some time to answer my question, instead of sending me again to sites that do not
give any dissent information.

Thank you for any help

[DJ Bobo]

Use Sonic Foundry Soft Encode or AC3 machine

But the best would be to encode your stereo WAV to stereo MP2 @ 224kbps, 'cause DVD also accepts MP2 audio.

[Bigslava]

I do not know what isthis mp2. Is this good in quality.

[DJ Bobo]

Of course it is.
You don't know what MP2 is?! then I'll give you a hint: MP3 is the successor of MP2 ;)
But DVD doesn't accept MP3, so you gotta take MP2.
MP2 gives you CD-quality @ 224kbps.

You can encode to MP2 with TMPG for example.

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
You don't know what MP2 is?! then I'll give you a hint: MP3 is the successor of MP2 ;)

Hum... no. There's no "sucessor" here, they are both part of the same standard version (MPEG1 audio)

Purpose of MP3 wasn't being "successor of MP2". Instead, they were created simultaneously for different goals in mind: The lower the layer number, the less CPU resources are needed to encode and decode.

This may seem weird nowadays, with 1gHz+ processors being usual, but it meant a big deal back in 1992 when MPEG1 was officially standardized.

That's why MP2 is standard for hardware (DVD, VCD) players. It takes much less resources to decode than MP3.

BTW: AAC is considered the sucessor of MP1/2/3, because it's one version higher (MPEG2 audio NBC)

MP2 gives you CD-quality @ 224kbps.

Please, don't use "CD-quality". You can only get CD-quality with lossless coding. Instead, use "transparency" ;)

Regards;

Roberto.

[Fox Mulder]

Hey Roberto; nice to see you around here. :)

[Bigslava]

I am a bit lost. Whot would you adwise AAC or MP2.

Thank you for help

[DJ Bobo]

You can't use AAC on a DVD.
So stick with MP2.

[goemon]

Get besweet 1.4rc7 and ac3enc.dll 0.2

To encode to 2-channel ac3:

besweet -core( -input file.wav -output file.ac3 ) -ac3enc( -b 384 )

The syntax must be exact -- spaces matter, or else besweet will barf all over itself...!

Use tmpgenc to multiplex the m2v with the ac3 and it will work perfectly... I make many DVDs this way without problems...

[rjamorim]

But keep in mind that ac3enc.dll output quality is BAD, much worse than the quality of programs using official Dolby libraries (SoftEncode, Surcode Dolby Digital, Digigram)

It's probably worse than mp2 (toolame -p 2) at the same bitrates. Worth testing...

Regards;

Roberto.


Originally posted by Fox Mulder
Hey Roberto; nice to see you around here. :)

Thanks. :)

[goemon]

Originally posted by rjamorim
But keep in mind that ac3enc.dll output quality is BAD, much worse than the quality of programs using official Dolby libraries (SoftEncode, Surcode Dolby Digital, Digigram)

It's probably worse than mp2 (toolame -p 2) at the same bitrates. Worth testing...

yes, but ac3enc.dll doesn't cost $500 (softencode) or $575 (Surcode Dolby Digital). I recall digigram's encoder costing $700 but I don't think they sell it any more.

When you have large video projects, ac3 is the only way to go and keep compatibility -- mp2 is not legal for NTSC DVD (most players will play it, but many won't). Raw PCM often causes the project to no longer fit on a DVD.

Considering the commercial mpeg2 video encoder I purchased was only $200, these prices seem ridiculous to me.

So.. unless you have a <$300 solution for ac3 encoder, besweet is the only way to go...

But I don't think anyone will sell ac3 encoder for <$300 considering dolby's per-copy license is $350 !! :mad:

[rjamorim]

Well, if you are concerned with legality (i.e: not using pirate copies of Dolby AC3 encoders), you shouldn't use ac3enc.dll either, since it's not licensed - and, therefore, illegal as well. :)

[goemon]

what about those "illegal" aac encoders on your page? :D

but there is a difference between unlicensed implementation of a patented algorithm, and piracy of software... :rolleyes:

[DJ Bobo]

MP2 is playable on *ALL* DVD players. MPEG-Audio is within the DVD norm: http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.6.2

Notice the "Each audio track can be in one of three formats..."

So MP2 is *definetely* accepted by all DVD players!

MP2 has also the advantage to encode a lot faster than AC3, and to keep the volume as is, where AC3 turn the volume down.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
MP2 has also the advantage to encode a lot faster than AC3, and to keep the volume as is, where AC3 turn the volume down. this got nothing to do with ac3 vs mp2.
you're talking about specifiec tools (that produces ac3 or mp2).

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by goemon
what about those "illegal" aac encoders on your page? :D

Do you live in Brazil? :D

And sure, piracy is not the same as not paying for patents. My point is just that both are illegal. :)

[goemon]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
MP2 is playable on *ALL* DVD players. MPEG-Audio is within the DVD norm: http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.6.2

Notice the "Each audio track can be in one of three formats..."

So MP2 is *definetely* accepted by all DVD players!

MP2 has also the advantage to encode a lot faster than AC3, and to keep the volume as is, where AC3 turn the volume down.

You didn't even read that dvd faq, did you?

Section 3.6.2:

Discs containing 525/60 video (NTSC) must use PCM or Dolby Digital on at least one track. Discs containing 625/50 video (PAL/SECAM) must use PCM or MPEG audio or Dolby Digital on at least one track. Additional tracks may be in any format. A few first-generation players, such as those made by Matsushita, can't output MPEG-2 audio to external decoders.

In section 5.8:



Encode the video into MPEG-2 (make sure the display frame rate is set to 29.97 for NTSC or 25 for PAL).
Encode the audio into Dolby Digital (or, if your video is short enough that you have room on the disc, format the audio as 48kHz PCM). You can also use MPEG Level II audio, but it won't work on all players.



Commercial authoring programs like DVD Workshop warn you that mpeg2 audio is illegal for NTSC. There's a reason for that, because it's true!

Please read the FAQ more carefully next time before spreading mis-information.

[DJ Bobo]

@ goemon
Of course, I read it, and I know exactly what they said! Man, I hate it when people prejudge other people, I hate it!!! Man, I swear if you were in front of me I would have done something uncalled for!! :angry:

They said, one of the tracks on the NTSC-DVD must be Dolby Digital or PCM on at least one track. This is just a ridiculous standard! That doesn't mean you can't put MP2 audio on it, because it is one acceptable format for DVD, as it is under the three formats shown on the site.

And about the MPEG Level II, they mean real MPEG-2 audio, and not MP2, which is MPEG-1 layer 2 !!

As you can read a bit higher in the FAQ, they talked about some *first-generation* Matsushita players being not able to play *MPEG-2* tracks!

Notice the "first-generation" word. Nevertheless, MPEG-2 and MP2 are 2 different things!
To make the difference more obvious to you, you'll find that sentence on the FAQ: "In December 1997 the lack of MPEG-2 encoders (and decoders) was a big enough problem that the spec was revised to allow Dolby Digital audio tracks to be used on 625/50 discs without MPEG audio tracks"
AFAIK, VCD was released already on 1993 und it used MP2-audio. So there can't be a lack of MP2 encoders/decoders in 1997!

Now you can go and search for a DVD player which can't play MP2 audio, you won't find any :p

[goemon]

mp2 is not a valid audio format for NTSC DVD, it violates the specification. (mp2 audio is legal for PAL though!).

if you make NTSC DVD with mp2 audio you will encounter problems on many players. Thats why many cheap DVD authoring programs use PCM audio (because mp2 is illegal, and ac3 requires expensive license), and authoring programs warn you that mp2 is not legal for NTSC! these programs do not lie!

whether you think it's ridiculous standard or not, it's the facts. and you can't change the facts.

when you say

MP2 is playable on *ALL* DVD players.

and

So MP2 is *definetely* accepted by all DVD players!

this is absolutely false.

please stop spreading incorrect information, you will just encourage people to make useless NTSC DVD coasters :( :( :(

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
And about the MPEG Level II, they mean real MPEG-2 audio, and not MP2, which is MPEG-1 [B]layer 2 !!

Absurd.

MPEG2 is not an audio format, it's a multimedia coding standard that came after MPEG1.

MPEG2 defines two types of audio: Backward Compatible (BC), that are the low sampling - and the multichannel - versions of the MPEG1 audio formats (MP1/2/3), and Not Backwards Compatible (NBC), that everyone knows as AAC.

So, whan they say MPEG2 audio, they mean MPEG audio layer 2. It's a very common mistake.

Notice the "first-generation" word. Nevertheless, MPEG-2 and MP2 are 2 different things!

Of course they are! One is a generic multimedia standard, the other is an audio compression format.

To make the difference more obvious to you, you'll find that sentence on the FAQ: "In December 1997 the lack of MPEG-2 encoders (and decoders) was a big enough problem that the spec was revised to allow Dolby Digital audio tracks to be used on 625/50 discs without MPEG audio tracks"
AFAIK, VCD was released already on 1993 und it used MP2-audio. So there can't be a lack of MP2 encoders/decoders in 1997!

Well, that means the FAQ is wrong, since, as you said yourself, there should be plenty of MP2 encoders floating around.

Now you can go and search for a DVD player which can't play MP2 audio, you won't find any :p

Just because it supports MP2 audio inside a VCD, doesn't mean it will support it inside a DVD. There are different routines involved, not to mention the limitations defined in the DVD forum licensing.

Think about it: Most DVD players support MP3 playback nowadays. So, you'll go adding MP3 streams to DVDs and hope they will play fine?

Just because the decoder is there doesn't mean it will be used.

Regards;

Roberto.

[DJ Bobo]

Sorry, but MP3-CD and DVD with MP2 sound are different things, and don't have any relation with each other!
MP3 is known as an extra almost luxury feature, so please don't mix up things.

Back to MP2.
I'll agree with you in one single point: multi-channel MPEG-2 audio won't work on all players, that is known and have been proven.
But you won't convince me that there is a DVD player out there that can't play MP2 audio!
Just the fact that 99% (to avoid saying 100%!) of all DVD players play VCD is a big big proof that MP2 is widely widely supported!
Add one thing: you suppose a DVD-R or +R capable player not able to play VCD and/or MP2?! this will be just pathetic!

[goemon]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
But you won't convince me that there is a DVD player out there that can't play MP2 audio!

doesnt matter what you believe -- i have seen it first hand. some friends pioneer and samsung dvd players wouldnt play mp2 audio but only ac3. they were first and second gen players.

anyone taking your bad advice to use mp2 audio are risking that they will make useless coasters :(

Add one thing: you suppose a DVD-R or +R capable player not able to play VCD and/or MP2?! this will be just pathetic!

yes, look at http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=652&Search=Search&#comments for proof!

or how about http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=1629&Search=Search&#comments

there are also 2 quite famous examples of players which play dvd-r but not vcd: Playstation 2 and Xbox...

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by rjamorim
MPEG2 defines two types of audio: Backward Compatible (BC), that are the low sampling - and the multichannel - versions of the MPEG1 audio formats (MP1/2/3), and Not Backwards Compatible (NBC), that everyone knows as AAC.i would count it as 3 :p :
1. lsf (mpeg2+mpeg2.5)
2. multichannel
3. nbc (aac).

the first is pretty common.

[rjamorim]

@DSPguru: Indeed. Fact is, always count ISF + MC as Backwards Compatible (because they really are BC, anyway ;))

@DJ Bobo: I give up. Fool yourself (and others) as much as you want claiming universal MP2 compatibility.

[DJ Bobo]

I left the 1% of DVD players not playing VCD just for you guys who claim DVD players can't play MP2.

About the links by vcdhelp.com:
The first link brings me to a laserdisc player which can play DVD, this is not a typical DVD player. It's a LaserDisc player in first place, with DVD compatibility. Nothing to take as reference.
The second link brings me to one of the models that can be taken under the 1% that can't play VCD.

The pioneer and samsung players of your friends probably can't play VCDs, also to take in the 1%.

The PS2 & XBOX aren't real DVD players on the first place, these are game consoles. Second, those "players" can't even play some pressed DVDs. Also not to be taken as reference!

And as we say: THERE IS NO RULE WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS ;)

So I'll keep my word: MP2 has universal compatibility! You can't play MP2? you have a rare crap DVD player! how do you like this one? :sly:

[Bigslava]

Thank,s for everibody for all your replise. I finaly found out how
to separate A/V strims using Adobe Premier 6.0. Then I opened
saved WAV file in Sonic Foundry Soft Encode 1.0.
After Encoding was finished I plaied AC3 file, and found out
that it playes at faster rate with high piched sound.
Does anibody has expirience in Soft Encode to help me.

Thank all of you for your help!

[goemon]

bigslava, try besweet. it works good for me.

and remember to ignore dj bobo, he's simply wrong.

[DJ Bobo]

@ goemon
That was mean! and I'm not wrong! if he used MP2 as I told him, he would be ready since long, but you must interfere and claim MP2-incompatibility just because some rare players don't accept it!

BTW, Bigslava, why Adobe Premiere anyway?! I don't know anymore, but I thought you were talking about separating audio & video of an AVI I think, havn't I answered this?! I can't find the thread anymore.

[Lula]

Hi,

Why is the volume of the AC3 file encode using Soft Encode , lower volume than that of the original WAV file ?

Any settings which I have forgotten when using Soft Encode.

Someone already mentioned this issue on this same thread.

Please help ( and please keep restricted to the topic - WAV TO AC3 ).

Thank's.

[Bigslava]

Thank you for your help. I did not mean to start arguments like I see in my topic.

I used Besweet to change sound from 25fps to 23. It warked. I
finally got audio and video sinchronised. But audio file sounds
bed with a lot of noises. So BeSweet can not be considered a
soft of chose at all. I am sory to say but this program can not
be use for any audio needs.

[goemon]

works fine for me.

besweet -core( -input file.wav -output file.ac3 ) -ac3enc( -b 384 )

sounds fine to me... no chirps and no problems...

i havent any need for fps conversion...