which dvd writer??

[rudeboymcc]

hi. i'm trying to find a decent DVD writer. my first though was sony's DRU-500A, but then iread on this forum that there are many incompatibility problems. i want a drive that won't give me many probelmes with incompatibility, adn i don't mind burning at x1.

can anyone suggest a good DVD writer?? also, explain the difference between DVD-R and DVD+R please .

[sarahjh69]

your're out of luck!
(I have a Pioneer 104, lots of media won't write even)
they all have incompatibility problems
with media and standalone players.

Cheap media usually does not work! (at all)

Once you get to the price level where you can
actually write to the media +R costs twice as
much as -R.

Pioneer 105 cost £199 inc vat
Sony 500 costs £250 inc vat

-r datawrite 2x media 90p
-rw datasafe media 90p
+r media £1.50
+rw media £2

I've not seen any 4x media for sale yet.

[alexnoe]

My local vendor could sell 4x dvd-r media at 6 euro each :scared:

[rudeboymcc]

i was thinking of the pioneer 105, but i wan't sure. has anyone tried using this drive with verbatum dvd-r's?? i heard verbatum's don't write at all in dru-500a.

[alexnoe]

They work. This issue is isolated to the Sony drive. Odd enough that Verbatim recalled their discs and changed their dye because of a flaw in the Sony burner (since it's the only drive with this issue, it is the burner, not the media)

[rudeboymcc]

so the pioneer 105 it is then. i've heard that the verbatum cd's are the most compatible, but are they reliable? ive heard of some makes whcih sell in packs of 5, where only 3 of the disks work.

[alexnoe]

If only 3 out of 5 work, return the whole pack to verbatim. They'll replace it. I haven't seen them in 5-packs though, only 10 packs.

They are not *the most* compatible, but they are very compatible. Let's say, if Verbatim do not work on a player, you should try Maxell, but if these don't work either, then :scared:

I've burned my first Verbatim 11 months ago, and it still has no glitch.

[rudeboymcc]

did you burn it with the pioneer 105??

i checked dabs, and there's a newer pioner, the DVR-A04. apparently, according to dabs, it's the better of the two. but reading this forum, i see many people having problems with this drive, and haveing to DOWNGRADE the firmware1~! can't be good .can it?? better than the 105??

also, where can i get hte cheaepst verbatim dvd-r's? dabs have them for £3.

[rudeboymcc]

another problem i'm thinking about is will these dvd-r's play in my dvd players?? i have two, both sony, DAV-S800, and the DVP-PQ1. i've read in the compatibility list that some dvd-r's written by the pionner 104 didn't work in a sony DVD player (a different one to mine).

would the DVD players definatley read the disk if it was written by a SONY dvd writer?? (assuming the disk was written properly and there were no underruns). ?

[alexnoe]

My DVD writer is of course a DVR-A03! I ordered it, to be precise, on Dec 6th, 2001. There was no other DVD writer available in those times :)

Usually, it doesn't matter what DVD writer you use as long as both the writer and the player like that media.

Will it play in your player? Try it!

A friend of mine has a Philips player which can even play TraxData :scared: crap media, while another friend has a player which only plays Maxell discs (not TDK, not Verbatim...)

Pioneer obviously doesn't want us to downgrade firmwares, so I doubt that it will work on DVR-A05 any better than on DVR-A04. Only the DVR-A03 does allow it.

Verbatim discs are off stock here everywhere at the moment, but used to be available at 3 Euros each.

[TCCK]

The problems with the Sony DRU-500A are being resolved with the availability of lots of good cheaper +R media plus Sony is releasing (or has by now) a new Firmware.

I would buy that one if $ is not the issue.

If money is an issue the Sony DRU-120 is a great DVD +R(W) drive or the HP 200i as it is a SONY re-branded.

All the DVD-R drives are going to out date and you will be frustrated a year or two down the road when you have trouble finding media and it will be more expensive than the +R media.

[marcosv]

Originally posted by TCCK

All the DVD-R drives are going to out date and you will be frustrated a year or two down the road when you have trouble finding media and it will be more expensive than the +R media.

I was curious. What are you basing your opinion that DVD-R is out and DVD+R will definitely win? Can you point me to any online references that support this?

I just bought a DRU-500A. However, I'm wondering if a cheaper DVD-R/RW burner would be more a more appropriate recommendation to some friends.

- Thanks,
Marcos

[TCCK]

No I can't at the momnet because of the stuff I have is on NON-DISCLOSURE but it will be out in the next 4-6 months.

TRUST ME do not buy DVD-R (W) unless you want to buy cheap outdated technology.

Time will prove me right.

If I could post the documents I would but they would know it is me and i would have my @ss sued off!!!

[sarahjh69]

so all these reports that many
cdr plants are changing production
to dvd-r are wrong then!!!!!

dvd+r has already lost the race
too little, too late, too expensive!

In a years time who will care about
madia availability. This will me old
technology and there will be a new
format out that will write 4x the data
at 10x the speed.

[alexnoe]

@sarah: TCCK did not provide any point which makes DVD+ better. Not here, not in the other thread about it. The conclusion is obvious.

[TCCK]

Originally posted by alexnoe
@sarah: TCCK did not provide any point which makes DVD+ better. Not here, not in the other thread about it. The conclusion is obvious.

THE reason I can't is because I signed a very clear "NON-DISCLOSURE" declaration and I can have my @SS sued off. It would be very clear to any manufacturer who I am and that I have broke my signed contract.

I do not care if you believe me, I know the truth and I have bought a DVD+R (W) drive. You can believe me and buy the technology that is going to win out or think I am lying and kick yourself later.

If you knew the other board I am a MOD on and knew my track record on HARDWARE you would shut up and buy DVD+R(W) and not even think about -R(W) drives

But that is your problem not mine, its not going to hurt me if you think I am someone that does not know what I am talking about or am a liar.

That is all I will say on this issue!

[alexnoe]

If you knew the other board I am a MOD on and knew my track record on HARDWARE you would shut upI don't care where you are a mod, since this only shows that you're out of arguments and now try to boast with having mod status somewhere.

Even if I knew where you are mod, I would clearly not shut up, because another persons status does not imply anything about his knowledge (look over to cdrinfo!) and therefore doesn't interest me. Having a mod status only implies that you made someone think that you have knowledge.

Especially mods are supposed to be able to learn, instead of coming up with "i am mod on forum blah and know everything".

You say your information is "classified". But advantages for end-customers are not classified! The technology itself can be, but nothing else. Since you did not even come up with any advantage for customers, my very first statement seems to be even more likely.

[TCCK]

Okay, risking my butt here:

1) DVD + R(W) format is going to support (in layman's terms) skip return: so if your computer is bumped it will be able to go back and find where it was writing, re-sync and continue on. Only DVD RAM currently can do this because of the disc track structure. DVD-R(W) will NEVER be able to do this because of its unchagable core part of its firmware!

2) Speeds will begin to exponetially grow compared to the little skips forward that DVD-R(W) is going to take in going forward. (Currently testing an 8X from SONY, now they know who is writing this!)

3) Buffer technology is going to see a new technology revelation which DVD-R(W) again can not do because of its base core firmware.

4) Transfer rates from the next generation of ATA that will be close to newer SCSI technology (U320).

5) And for those that use SCSI the 40Mb/sec barrier (Wide SCSI) is going to be passed and you will be able to get true U320 SCSI DVD+RW drives. (Damn they really know who I am know.)

6) Next generation media that will go beyond the 30Gb per disc barrier but DVD-R(W) can't because of its firmware and track structure.

There are more but this should be enough to get me into deep enough hot water!

So alexnoe is that enough to get you to shut up and take note that I may just have an in with some of these manufacturers.

[alexnoe]

(1): I don't live in an earthquake area ;)
(2): The C'T did DVD media tests (error rates, tracking and HF signal). Only Verbatim DVD+R media got "acceptable", all other DVD+R media was labeled "crap" (as bad as lets say Princo DVD-R, which got highest minus-score on DVD-R).
Maybe the write quality on current speeds should be fixed before going to 8x.

Exponential growing means (a^(x^y)) btw. I doubt that speeds will grow this way.

(3) ???
(4) has nothing to do with + vs - format. UDMA33 is enough for 16x DVD speed.
(5) What should that be good for?
(6) has nothing to do with current + vs - either. This will require new readers and writers anyway and is not of any relevance for someone who needs a dvd writer *now*.

[TCCK]

Okay Alexnoe!

Go stick your head back in the hole where it is a lot of the time obviously.

you sound like you would be happy with a 486 DX 2 -66Mhz system too and you don't really care for technology change and if you do you only want what you think is the best.

Sounds like a closed minded person that is not willing to listen to the people that have know a bit about what is coming down the pipe.

So I am going to just ignore your comment sform now on! As it is a waste of my time to try to convince someone that thinks they know it all and they are perfect.

I will gladly admit I do not know everthing about lots of stuff (IE: ripping and thats why I go to Doom's site) and I am not perfect but obviously you are so sorry to come into your presence and spoil your perfectness.

And yes that was obnoxious and rude just like your <sarcasim> comments. Here let me save you some time:

<smart ass remark>alexnoe insert your smart ass retaliation that I will ignore here when you quote my post<smart ass remark>

Everyone else please forgive my outburst but I deal with a few twits like this at work and I usually blurt out to them this way too after I am completely frustrated with thier pig headedness!

I am sorry for my outburst!

[alexnoe]

I am interested in what is coming up...

But the "advantages of DVD+RW" you come up with are either not DVD+specific, or are of no use for customers (U320 for DVD writer)

No, I would not be happy with a 486/DX2. And IF dvd+rw somewhen in the distant future comes up with advantages, then I will change. At the moment, it would not.

What you came up with is to be summerized as "somewhen in the distant future, drives and media will be only based upon dvd+rw". None of the "features" you mentioned is included in any drive at the moment.

[TCCK]

yawn

haven't convinced me you aren't happy with a 486 DX2. Technology changes and you just don't want to try to keep up.

[alexnoe]

divX encoders run too slow on a 486DX/2 ;)

[TCCK]

Okay that is true but I bet you still own your 486 for sentamental reasons!

[rwarren]

Well, let me throw my ignorance in here, since there appears to be tons already.

The DVD+R/+RW supporters have always let their mouth overload their ass. DVD+R/+RW burners were supposed to be the first burners out, they were not. When they finally appeared, DVD+R/+RW burners were supposed to be more compatible with standalone players than DVD-R/-RW, they were not. DVD+R/+RW media was supposed to be cheaper that DVD-R/-RW media, it is not. Fact of the matter is, DVD+R/+RW supporters have always promised everyone the world, but have yet to really deliver the performace of DVD-R/-RW. Sony may be testing 8x burners but in the forums I follow consumers are having a hard time burning at 2x and almost no luck at 4x. 4x media is even hard to come by. But, if DVD+R/+RW is THE thing (and Sony was one of the original suppporters), why does the latest Sony burner support both? Why would Sony waste the R&D time and funds on DVD-R technology? Simple, the standard that will ultimately prevail has not been decided. Truthfully, I am not sure there will be a winner. Both standards will probably fight it out until another technology wipes both of them out.

I own a DVD-R/-RW burner and I believe I made the right choice, at this point in time. Let's assume that DVD+R/+RW does eventually deliver on all of the promises TCCK revealed. Would that help the person that is purchasing a DVD burner now? No. There are always drawbacks to purchasing the cutting edge technology. I am not saying that I will never own a DVD+R/+RW burner, I just do not think it is the best choice right now. Basing your purchase decision based on how a technology will evolve (or how you think it might evolve) is really a mistake, especially since the hardware you buy now would not take advantage of those improvements any way.

Again, just my ignorance on the subject.....

Richard

[alexnoe]

C'T did a DVD±R media test:

No written DVD+R media met the specs, with the greatest crap being Ricoh media! :scared: :scared: :scared:
Only Verbatim media was acceptable (still didn't meet specs after having been written)

C'T has explained why DVD+R are in theory better, so they know much more than TCCK, because they didn't come up with useless U320 crap, but with something making sense.

But they also said that this not increase compatibility in any way, and as long as no media is available for DVD+R (no, crap media is no media for me), it's useless.

[TCCK]

@rwarren

I appreciate your comments, you have an open mind and i thank you for that.

I agree if someone is buying right now and they only care about current situation the DVD-R camp is the way to go.

I tend to be a forward thinking kind of guy because of my testing Alpha and Beta hardware so I buy with that info in mind.

I guess for right now you guys are right and we will see how things turn out in a year or so.

I will also not be an @ss and jump up and down yelling I told you so if it goes my way because one person had an open mind.

You should see the performance on this BRAND XXXX though, (I already got reprimanded for my comments, see comment below) (the Alpha one I'm testing!) Smokin' fast but that is with thier test media too.


**Note: If you think Sony/Richoh/Toshiba/ etc are not watching this forum you are wrong. I got a letter (e-mail actually) of reprimand within 12 hours of my post on the technology. They are watching and they are interested in what is said and done here.

[alexnoe]

Forward thinking is a bit difficult in PC stuff...

I hope that all these companies read these forums! This way, they know very well what we don't like for certains writers :D , and bug reports can't be gathered more effectively.

[smiller667]

Originally posted by alexnoe
No written DVD+R media met the specs, with the greatest crap being Ricoh media! :scared: :scared: :scared:
A friend forwarded the results to me ... in fact no media whatsoever (neither dvd-r nor +r) were within the specs. The article summarizes that in dvd-r, you get the biggest variation in terms of quality (from very good to utter junk), somewhat less so in dvd+r media (which are legally mfgd. only by Ricoh and Mitsubishi/Verbatim). What worried me personally was the huge variation in media quality from some manufacturers (e.g. Ritek dvd-r, Ricoh dvd+r) - anything from decent to less than great, and no way of predicting it. It also discouraged me from buying noname/bulk dvd-r media.

[ferget]

wonder if you could help me tcck i have just ventured into the dvd+rw world waiting on a new system with a sony dru 120a from scotland here can u tell me how that dvdwriter is and whats the best dvd+r +rw to get in the uk would be much obliged if you could reply to this would be much obliged

[alexnoe]

According to C'T media test, only Mitsubishi DVD+R media is recommended (sold as Verbatim. Philips sells Mitsubishi and Ricoh media, so you don't know what you get when buying).

For DVD+RW: they haven't tested them, but Verbatim seems to be always a good idea.