VCD 352x240 @1700kbps = useless ?

[ookzDVD]

@Forum,

is the VCD NTSC 29.97 352x240 @ 1700kbps = useless ?

which one is better ?
VCD @ 1700 or
SVCD @ 1700 ?

Thank you.

[adam]

No I would not say it is useless. Actually 1700kbits is a pretty low amount of bitrate for a SVCD. On some sources it may be adequate but for a fullframe source or one with alot of action, I would say that the 1700kbit xvcd (non-standard vcd) would look better than the SVCD at the same bitrate.

There are so many different factors to account for here but I think that 1700kbits is probably close to being in the grey area where xvcd starts to become the more logical choice, assuming your hardware player accepts it of course.

You may wish to experiment with CVD which for all intents and purposes is a SVCD but with a resolution of 352x480/576. This format is supported in all SVCD compatible dvd players, or at least should be, and the half-D1 resolution is much more logical when using lower bitrates. CVD seems to be a nice compromise between having the advantages of mpeg2 (support for interlacing, non-linear Q, standardized support for higher resolution and higher bitrate)and having the nice bits per pixel ratio of xvcd at 352x240/288.

Sorry if I got too technical. Basically, 352x240 @1700kbits are pretty good settings if you have a very bitrate intensive source yet need a high level of compression, or if the source resolution is already low.

[RadicalEd]

not to insult your intelligence but standard VCD can only be 1150 kbps cbr video and any deviation thereof is no longer standards compliant. SVCD of course can go anywhere from 0 - 2500 kbps vbr
but I'm sure you knew that n00b stuff ;)

[adam]

Actually standard SVCD can go anywhere from 0-2600kbits as long as the total bitrate does not exceed 2778kbits. Just more n00b stuff:)

[RadicalEd]

ah its so n00bish I didnt bother looking up the exact max bitrate ;P

[wmansir]

1700kbps would be low, but possible acceptable for a 24fps SVCD, but at 29.97fps I don't think it's enough. Perhaps CVD could handle it, depending on the source. It's probably just best to encode a couple of test clips and pick which one you like best.

[N_F]

Originally posted by RadicalEd
standard VCD can only be 1150 kbps cbr video and any deviation thereof is no longer standards compliant.

What exactly does standards compliant mean? A while ago I did some experiments and my DVD-player was able to play VCDs created with higher bitrates than 1150 kbps. Would an older DVD-player have problems playing it perhaps?

[adam]

VCDs, SVCDs, DVDs, etc.. all have a set standard. There is a big boring spec for each one which lays out exactly how your disk must be encoded/authored in order to comply with that standard.

Any hardware or software player that claims to be able to play that format MUST be able to play any disk which conforms to that standard. I'm sure you can see how chaotic it would be if every dvd player manufacturer had their own definition of what a "VCD" should be. If your disk varies even slightly from the standard then there is no guarantee that it will still play on any player that claims to support that standard.

New, old, cheap, expensive, it really doesn't matter. Some players are very leniant regarding these standards and some are extremely strict. There is a good list at www.vcdhelp.com which will give you an idea about what the limitations are for each make and model of dvd player.

The VCD spec was written with hardware vcd players in mind, not hardware dvd players with vcd support. The 1150kbits limit is set because that is the theoretical max speed at which data can be read off of a 1x drive, which pretty much all vcd players have. Any dvd player will probably have a drive capable of reading data faster than this but it still may be limited to 1150kbits by its firmware since after all, that is all it is required to play.

[N_F]

Ok. Thanks for your answer.