VegemiteSandwich
3rd November 2002, 02:14
Hello,
I have a problem which I don't think is covered by some of the other threads in the DVD authoring area. I think some people have encountered similar problems with compatibility but I can't reconcile 100% similarity with the other problems. I'm no stranger to trouble-shooting. I do it for work almost every day. But this one has me stumped! If you like troubleshooting please read on!
These threads describe similar problems but there are slight differences with my situation. Perhaps I don't fully understand the authoring and burning process to recongize that they are the same, in which case I apologize for wasting people's time. I do hope however that I can get some resolution to my problem because so far I've wasted 8 Verbatim DVD-R discs without any progress to narrowing down the cause.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=35397
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=36926
I can't really explain my problem in a concise manner as it's been a long and drawn out process of trial and error for me. So I'll explain in gory details below.
1) I am authoring a DVD of original material (a live music concert performed by friends that I shot on my DV camcorder). I have a Canopus DV Raptor capture card and Adobe Premiere 6.5.
a) I capture the video using the Raptor capture program and arrange the video in the timeline in Premiere.
b) I use Adobe MPEG Encoder (that ships with 6.5) to encode the video using a specification that is DVD compliant. I'm pretty sure this isn't the cause of the problem (explained further down).
c) I now have separate m2v and wav (PCM) tracks which I can import into a DVD authoring program.
2) I have 2 DVD authoring solutions (and a few more actually but mostly low end) available to me. Ultimately I want the flexibility of high end authoring because I want to make "cool" custom menus. I have Dazzle DVD Complete and Daikan Scenarist NT v2.0.
a) I can author the DVD in DVD Complete by importing the m2v and wav (which DVD Complete converts to mp2), setting the chapter points for each song for quick indexing and have DVD Complete create and layout the menus from one of its templates. I then have DVD Complete create the IFO and VOB files in the VIDEO_TS directory.
b) I can take the contents of the VIDEO_TS directry and burn to a DVD-Video project in Nero 5.5.8.0.
c) I use a Verbatim DVD-R and burn the DVD and it plays in my set top player (Sony DVP-S500D). It plays flawlessly. The (auto-generated) menus work and the concert is rendered by the set top player. This is not a media issue as far as I can see.
d) When I examine the IFO files it looks like DVD Complete has created a first PGC that links to the root menu PGC and the VIDEO_TS.VOB file is empty (only a VIDEO_TS.IFO). There's no PGC in the VMG so the "Title" menu doesn't even work.
3) I take the same m2v and wav files and import them into Scenarist. I create the primary track for the VTS and set similar chapter points in the concert track. The audio is imported as PCM (because I went to the trouble of syncing the audio recorded on the equipment instead of using the audio recorded on my camcorder on a .5" piece of junk microphone).
a) I design a still root menu with 3 choices in Photoshop. "Play The Concert" / "Song Index" / "Special Features". "Play The Concert" simply enters the VTS entry PGC which plays the concert. "Song Index" links to a PTT PGC (so the chapter button will take you here) which lists all the songs in a concise manner that's easy to navigate and jump to. "Special Features" takes you to another title with the single VTS on the disc. I won't go into this because I don't even get this far.
b) I know how to author menus and understand the background and the overlay and the highlight button selection and fancy features of Scenarist. If anyone has ever authored a Win32 dialog in Visual Studio it's somewhat similar but not quite. This isn't the problem as far as I can tell.
c) I create the project in an identical fashion to DVD Complete as far as the first PGC is concerned. It simply has a PRE command that jumps to the root menu in the VTS. I do, however, create a single PGC (title PGC) in the language (English) area of the VMG which simply is a PRE command jump to the root menu in the VTS. This is a difference from the DVD Complete authoring but I don't think this would account for the problem I am seeing.
d) I have Scenarist create the files in the VIDEO_TS directory. Just for kicks I also have it create the ".dvd" image file. I do this because I've tried various alternatives as I'll explain later.
4) Ok. Great. Now I have my VIDEO_TS files. I play them in PowerDVD just to make sure it's all layed out the way I like. PowerDVD plays the DVD and it's just perfect. I am happy with the layout. So now ... to burn this more professional looking DVD. This is where my troubles begin. For the record I was using a Pioneer DVR-A04 (which I was borrowing) but I now have a Sony DRU-500A which I haven't burned a single disc on yet because of the Verbatim incompatibility.
a) I create a DVD-Video project in Nero 5.5.8.0 and burn the VIDEO_TS directory from Scenarist to the DVD. I place it in my set top player it gives me error "C13" which basically means disc is dirty - I can't read it. But it's one of those Verbatim DVD-R that I just burned with DVD Complete and that one played. It turns out that I can press the Play button on my remote and the player will start playing the concert. If I skip forward it will even skip to the chapter points. So it's clear to me that the m2v and wav are DVD compliant and there's nothing wrong with the media. If I try to press "root" or "title" the DVD player stops and gives me the "C13" error. It appears to be a menu or burning problem. But the menus render just fine in PowerDVD. That's one thing I can't figure out. I can only conclude the IFO file doesn't correctly tell the player how to get to the menu data.
b) Ok. So I read the threads above that state you should create an image first. So I use imgtool 0.89 to create one and this produces a DVD which starts playing the menu in some way it looks like but doesn't. The screen remains black but the player has a "1" in the LED panel on the front. No menu. It just stops.
c) I try using IfoEdit and its image creation. This DVD produces the same C13 error but plays using the Play button. In fact all of them Play the title. It's the menus that just don't work.
d) I even try burning the images using the Pioneer RecordNow DX software instead of Nero. Still no luck.
e) I also try the .dvd file produced by Scenarist and the menus, of course, don't work.
5) I've tried different imaging techniques. Different burning software to burn the different images but so far NONE of the Scenarist authored DVDs will play in my set top. And yet ... the DVD Complete one plays just fine.
With all the above I can conclude:
1) PowerDVD renders everything thrown at it. It really doesn't appear to be a problem with the way I'm authoring the DVD and navigation/menus. I realize that PC players are more tolerance of problems so I suspect this is a factor in the root cause of the problem.
2) The media used for every burn is a Verbatim DVD-R which the set top player plays but doesn't appear to render Scenarist authored menus.
3) DVD Complete DVDs are always rendered perfectly so there's something that this program is doing when creating the VIDEO_TS directory and files in it that Scenarist doesn't seem to be doing correctly ... or more likely I'm not telling Scenarist what to do to make it work.
4) Today I just spent $60 on an Apex 1500 and tried all those DVDs I burned in the Apex. It reads DVD-R and DVD+RW and plays both the Scenarist and DVD Complete DVDs. Clearly the menus are authored in a correct fashion.
5) I can only conclude that there's some compatibility problem with my set top player (Sony DVP-S500D) which Scenarist seems to bring out. Remember ... the DVD Complete DVD plays just fine.
My questions (after all that rambling) are these:
1) Does anyone know what might be the compatibility problem here? Clearly Scenarist can author DVDs which Hollywood uses and those DVDs are compatible.
2) Does anyone have any suggestions that I could try to help with this? I've tried different imaging (IfoEdit, ImgTool and Scenarist) and different burning software (Nero and RecordNow) and it doesn't seem to help.
3) Am I just stuck here with an incompatibility that I have to live with? Surely there's a reason WHY it doesn't work with the Scenarist produced VIDEO_TS files but it does work with the DVD Complete produced VIDEO_TS files burned with the same burning software (Nero 5.5.8.0).
4) Is this simply a burning issue and I don't have burning software that will produce a compatible result?
Any help/suggestions greatly appreciated. I can't think of anything and I'm at the end of my knowledge in this area. A bit more reading is now in order but I'd like to save some time if others have encountered this before.
I have a problem which I don't think is covered by some of the other threads in the DVD authoring area. I think some people have encountered similar problems with compatibility but I can't reconcile 100% similarity with the other problems. I'm no stranger to trouble-shooting. I do it for work almost every day. But this one has me stumped! If you like troubleshooting please read on!
These threads describe similar problems but there are slight differences with my situation. Perhaps I don't fully understand the authoring and burning process to recongize that they are the same, in which case I apologize for wasting people's time. I do hope however that I can get some resolution to my problem because so far I've wasted 8 Verbatim DVD-R discs without any progress to narrowing down the cause.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=35397
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=36926
I can't really explain my problem in a concise manner as it's been a long and drawn out process of trial and error for me. So I'll explain in gory details below.
1) I am authoring a DVD of original material (a live music concert performed by friends that I shot on my DV camcorder). I have a Canopus DV Raptor capture card and Adobe Premiere 6.5.
a) I capture the video using the Raptor capture program and arrange the video in the timeline in Premiere.
b) I use Adobe MPEG Encoder (that ships with 6.5) to encode the video using a specification that is DVD compliant. I'm pretty sure this isn't the cause of the problem (explained further down).
c) I now have separate m2v and wav (PCM) tracks which I can import into a DVD authoring program.
2) I have 2 DVD authoring solutions (and a few more actually but mostly low end) available to me. Ultimately I want the flexibility of high end authoring because I want to make "cool" custom menus. I have Dazzle DVD Complete and Daikan Scenarist NT v2.0.
a) I can author the DVD in DVD Complete by importing the m2v and wav (which DVD Complete converts to mp2), setting the chapter points for each song for quick indexing and have DVD Complete create and layout the menus from one of its templates. I then have DVD Complete create the IFO and VOB files in the VIDEO_TS directory.
b) I can take the contents of the VIDEO_TS directry and burn to a DVD-Video project in Nero 5.5.8.0.
c) I use a Verbatim DVD-R and burn the DVD and it plays in my set top player (Sony DVP-S500D). It plays flawlessly. The (auto-generated) menus work and the concert is rendered by the set top player. This is not a media issue as far as I can see.
d) When I examine the IFO files it looks like DVD Complete has created a first PGC that links to the root menu PGC and the VIDEO_TS.VOB file is empty (only a VIDEO_TS.IFO). There's no PGC in the VMG so the "Title" menu doesn't even work.
3) I take the same m2v and wav files and import them into Scenarist. I create the primary track for the VTS and set similar chapter points in the concert track. The audio is imported as PCM (because I went to the trouble of syncing the audio recorded on the equipment instead of using the audio recorded on my camcorder on a .5" piece of junk microphone).
a) I design a still root menu with 3 choices in Photoshop. "Play The Concert" / "Song Index" / "Special Features". "Play The Concert" simply enters the VTS entry PGC which plays the concert. "Song Index" links to a PTT PGC (so the chapter button will take you here) which lists all the songs in a concise manner that's easy to navigate and jump to. "Special Features" takes you to another title with the single VTS on the disc. I won't go into this because I don't even get this far.
b) I know how to author menus and understand the background and the overlay and the highlight button selection and fancy features of Scenarist. If anyone has ever authored a Win32 dialog in Visual Studio it's somewhat similar but not quite. This isn't the problem as far as I can tell.
c) I create the project in an identical fashion to DVD Complete as far as the first PGC is concerned. It simply has a PRE command that jumps to the root menu in the VTS. I do, however, create a single PGC (title PGC) in the language (English) area of the VMG which simply is a PRE command jump to the root menu in the VTS. This is a difference from the DVD Complete authoring but I don't think this would account for the problem I am seeing.
d) I have Scenarist create the files in the VIDEO_TS directory. Just for kicks I also have it create the ".dvd" image file. I do this because I've tried various alternatives as I'll explain later.
4) Ok. Great. Now I have my VIDEO_TS files. I play them in PowerDVD just to make sure it's all layed out the way I like. PowerDVD plays the DVD and it's just perfect. I am happy with the layout. So now ... to burn this more professional looking DVD. This is where my troubles begin. For the record I was using a Pioneer DVR-A04 (which I was borrowing) but I now have a Sony DRU-500A which I haven't burned a single disc on yet because of the Verbatim incompatibility.
a) I create a DVD-Video project in Nero 5.5.8.0 and burn the VIDEO_TS directory from Scenarist to the DVD. I place it in my set top player it gives me error "C13" which basically means disc is dirty - I can't read it. But it's one of those Verbatim DVD-R that I just burned with DVD Complete and that one played. It turns out that I can press the Play button on my remote and the player will start playing the concert. If I skip forward it will even skip to the chapter points. So it's clear to me that the m2v and wav are DVD compliant and there's nothing wrong with the media. If I try to press "root" or "title" the DVD player stops and gives me the "C13" error. It appears to be a menu or burning problem. But the menus render just fine in PowerDVD. That's one thing I can't figure out. I can only conclude the IFO file doesn't correctly tell the player how to get to the menu data.
b) Ok. So I read the threads above that state you should create an image first. So I use imgtool 0.89 to create one and this produces a DVD which starts playing the menu in some way it looks like but doesn't. The screen remains black but the player has a "1" in the LED panel on the front. No menu. It just stops.
c) I try using IfoEdit and its image creation. This DVD produces the same C13 error but plays using the Play button. In fact all of them Play the title. It's the menus that just don't work.
d) I even try burning the images using the Pioneer RecordNow DX software instead of Nero. Still no luck.
e) I also try the .dvd file produced by Scenarist and the menus, of course, don't work.
5) I've tried different imaging techniques. Different burning software to burn the different images but so far NONE of the Scenarist authored DVDs will play in my set top. And yet ... the DVD Complete one plays just fine.
With all the above I can conclude:
1) PowerDVD renders everything thrown at it. It really doesn't appear to be a problem with the way I'm authoring the DVD and navigation/menus. I realize that PC players are more tolerance of problems so I suspect this is a factor in the root cause of the problem.
2) The media used for every burn is a Verbatim DVD-R which the set top player plays but doesn't appear to render Scenarist authored menus.
3) DVD Complete DVDs are always rendered perfectly so there's something that this program is doing when creating the VIDEO_TS directory and files in it that Scenarist doesn't seem to be doing correctly ... or more likely I'm not telling Scenarist what to do to make it work.
4) Today I just spent $60 on an Apex 1500 and tried all those DVDs I burned in the Apex. It reads DVD-R and DVD+RW and plays both the Scenarist and DVD Complete DVDs. Clearly the menus are authored in a correct fashion.
5) I can only conclude that there's some compatibility problem with my set top player (Sony DVP-S500D) which Scenarist seems to bring out. Remember ... the DVD Complete DVD plays just fine.
My questions (after all that rambling) are these:
1) Does anyone know what might be the compatibility problem here? Clearly Scenarist can author DVDs which Hollywood uses and those DVDs are compatible.
2) Does anyone have any suggestions that I could try to help with this? I've tried different imaging (IfoEdit, ImgTool and Scenarist) and different burning software (Nero and RecordNow) and it doesn't seem to help.
3) Am I just stuck here with an incompatibility that I have to live with? Surely there's a reason WHY it doesn't work with the Scenarist produced VIDEO_TS files but it does work with the DVD Complete produced VIDEO_TS files burned with the same burning software (Nero 5.5.8.0).
4) Is this simply a burning issue and I don't have burning software that will produce a compatible result?
Any help/suggestions greatly appreciated. I can't think of anything and I'm at the end of my knowledge in this area. A bit more reading is now in order but I'd like to save some time if others have encountered this before.