For Newbies and anyone else interested in DVD "auto" copying software

[TRILIGHT]

First, let me just say up front that I apologize if I end up offending anyone with this post. I'm just a "straight shooter" and call it like it is. The reason for this post is to try to give newbies some insight as to what to expect when it comes to creating backups. (As if there is not tons of info on the forum as it is! hehe ;) )

I'm sure many of you have heard the term "if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is!" Well, the same holds true of "DVD Copying" software. If you took some time to educate yourself with the guides here on the site, you would find that there is a LOT involved with creating a perfect backup of a DVD disc. In fact, to be perfectly accurate, there is no "perfect" backup of a DVD-9 (read dual-layered) disc as you simply cannot fit 9GB+ onto a DVD-R disc.

Some programmers have suggested writing software that controls other pieces of software by clicking on things the user would. I'm not discounting their ideas. It's admirable that they would want to take on such a task. The problem with this is two fold though. First, it would have to take into account all the different types of DVD authoring software out there, plus the different versions of that software. Second, it assumes that the user has spent thousands of dollars on this authoring software and has it installed properly. If programmers want to attempt such an undertaking, I say "more power to you!" I have never been one to stifle independent thought. In fact, I encourage it! I just want people to remain realistic in their expectations.

Other programmers and/or companies have suggested they have "DVD Copying" software that will make your backups for you. Usually this involves backing them up to multiple CD's or dropping the nice Dolby Digital or DTS surround audio or compressing the video to a much lower quality format. I personally find all of these "solutions" completely unacceptable! I think that if many of the newcomers understood what this sort of software really did, they would not be impressed either! Why spend money on crap software like this when you can do a much better job yourself by learning!

There are tons of different types of DVD's out there. Some have motion menus and some don't. Some have DTS audio and some don't. Some have multiple angles and some don't. To assume that there is a piece of software out there (at the time of this writing) that is capable of taking all of this into consideration and handle it properly is nothing short of complete naivete! Do not let yourself be duped into believing that there is something out there that is going to just let you "click a button" and solve your problems. DVD is a FAR cry from CD. It isn't even CLOSE to being the same sort of animal. I encourage you all to think for yourselves and not become sheep assuming there is a "quick fix" out there for you. It is possible to make quality backups but it's by learning, following the guides posted here, and asking intelligent questions. I think you'll find the journey is worth the reward. In fact, in my personal opinion, the journey is the reward.

[jorel]

my silent reverence!
:)

[jorel]

but inside "euphorik" to learn!

@TRILIGHT
waiting for you ,master....i'm your follower!

;)

[DVDIdiot]

go here for all your newbie needs...

http://www.doom9.org

EDIT: The links that were listed in this post were nothing more than the same information that is found here. Unfortunately, they were in a much more confusing format and requested donations so I removed the links.

[Tyris]

Well, I mostly agree. I've tried to eliminate some compatibility issues from program to program by sticking with a one version, one program concept in ReDVD. For example, it currently uses CCE 2.50. Later on I plan to add support for TMPGEnc for those who want to use a more affordable encoder. As you've said though, there are still certainly lots of problems just based on configuration, OS, etc. I'm still hoping that I'll be able to address most of these issues so ReDVD will be useful for most people.

[TRILIGHT]

Just so you know, this wasn't a jab at you, Tyris. It's just that many "newbies" do not understand all that is involved. They tend to think such software is akin to something like Easy CD Creator where they just "click a button" and end up with a perfect copy like with CD's.

[mpucoder]

You know, like DVDXCopy. Due out today, but they have problems they never anticipated (surprise, surprise).

[Tyris]

@ TRILIGHT

Yep, I know. I support what you're saying, so I just thought I'd give an example. Although, you're right, depending on how I interpret what you said, it could seem like an attack. :)

[Antonio S.]

TRILIGHT:

With all respect...

NEVER underestimate the capacity of programers !
If people like Bill Gates had thought like you, he had never developed: DOS, Windows, Power Point, etc. When nothing of this exist, this use to sound like an impossible dream.

Programming is a science and a chalenge. That is better to learn from the beginning? Yes,it is. But that doesn't mean that a good programmer can't make things easier. When reducing VOB size there are a lot of tedious work that can be (and should be) preprogramed. An example of this can be: re-encoding, re-muxing, and authoring. That the user will have to interact to decide some options? Yes, but a computer with a good program can take care of other simple decisions and procedures, and eventually it can take care all the process...

Antonio S.

[TRILIGHT]

That's why I said "(at the time of this writing)". I have no doubt that something will come about eventually but it certainly isn't right now. What Tyris is working on is a script to automate other pieces of software. I'm sure he'll tell you himself how difficult this is to do. I wish him luck in his endeavors!

As for an "all-in-one" package that makes things as simple as copying a CD on Easy CD Creator, it just isn't out there. Too many people that are new to the game get suckered in by certain companies claiming that something like this is available and it just isn't yet. When it is, (and it isn't a total HACK) I'll gladly sing it's praises. Even then though, I doubt it will achieve the level of quality currently found in the manual process using CCE for re-encoding. Just my 2 cents. ;)

[Matthew]

I don't see how anyone can create a comprehensive all in one program either, in particular one that supports subtitles, but then again I'm a cynic =)

For peronal use I've written a macro (which uses keystrokes) that allows me to start ripping, begin the macro - go away (to sleep or whatever) and within 30 mins or whatever the workstation (winxp) will be locked and encoding the video stream.

It runs DVD2AVI when ripping stops, adds the right chapter points in CCE 2.66 (has to be done via the program itself as no ECL support) and then launches encoding.

I have to set the encoding parameters in CCE beforehand, etc but it cuts down the pain in the ass factor as I don't have to hang around waiting for ripping to finish etc, and I get perfect chapter points =)

[chips144]

It seems from this thread and several other threads that a lot of people (including senior members and mods) have doubts about the validity of a piece of dvd copying software that has not yet been released.
I have been following the beta testers threads since the beginning. I have also read the info on the software developers site. There are a few points that I would like to make. Incidentially, just because the number of my posts is low, it doesn't mean that I am a novice or lack the "mature" understanding of the processes involved. As to my points. Let's stop circling the issues so that meaningful discussions on the subject can take place.

1. The software in question is DVDXCopy.
2. Transcoding does not take place with this software. Therefore claims that DVD2SVCD using CCE will produce better quality are meaningless. Quality being basically a function of bitrate and the bitrate being the same as the original source material, the result will be identical to the original.
3. Using just DVDDecrytper and IFOEdit you can make an exact copy of a DVD5 disk.
4. Using just DVDDecrypter and IFOEdit you cam strip some DVD9 disks and get an exact copy of the movie only on 1 DVD-R disk.
5. Using just DVDDecrypter and IFOEdit you can get an exact copy of the movie only plus you can add whatever extra features you like from the original DVD9 disk, but it will take 2 DVD-R disks.
6. The claim is that DVDXCopy will handle DVD5 and DVD9 disks in somewhat the same manner as using DVDDecrypter and IFOEdit as noted in 3,4 and 5 above.

I don't know if DVDXcopy will ever do what they claim. The processes involved in IFOEdit (especially in splitting a DVD9 movie onto 2 DVD-R disks) are very complex. I am not speaking of being complex for the user, but rather the complexity involved in writing the software. When you consider that most of software used by the majority of the people reading this thread was written by someone who didn't receive a single dime for his/her efforts, it is truly amazing. My heartfelt thanks goes out to these people for their tremendous efforts.

It is my hope that this thread continue with some real technical issue discussions within the framework of the items I listed. Stating an opinion based on previous experience is fine, but you must allow for the possibility that this software might work. In light of that can these discussions continue. I would especially like to hear Darrow's opinion on this subject. He, I feel, more than anyone else would be able to assess the potential validity of DVDXCopy's claims.

[jacobjef]

Yes, I agree. Derrow is "GOD" when it comes to dvd!

[scimani2]

i have it and love it...works awesome for my needs...guess its just a personal decision

[TRILIGHT]

hmm... who could be happier than you? Perhaps ME when I don't have to get my lazy ass off the couch in the middle of my movie to switch discs?? hehe ;) Anyway, just as an update for those paying attention and are interested, what this software does is span your disc across more than one DVDR.

If that's what you're into, it will do it. However, I don't see why you'd want to spend money for this when such a task is so easily accomplished already by the freeware tools on this site. If you're a lazy ass like me and don't want to keep up with multiple discs just for one movie or don't feel like taking your arm from around your date (or whatever else you may be doing. hehe) in order to get up and go switch discs, then this still isn't the answer you're looking for.

[scimani2]

TRILIGHT, very good point and in no way am i bashing you here, but you dont want to get off your "lazy ass" and switch movies in the middle, but you will take that "lazy ass" and put it through a 10 hour or more process to encode and strip and everything else it needs to get the dvd backed-up...plus i can back-up around 5-6 movies a day around classes and stuff...when i was encoding...i could do only like 2...IMO..so take it for whats its worth...

[TRILIGHT]

No offense taken. ;) As I've said to many others, I think you're missing the point of why I, and many other people, actually do all of this. It's about 90% learning/hobby and only about 10% wanting to back something up. For me, the reward is the journey itself. In fact, I'm going to find myself a bit bored when/if it ever does come down to just throwing a disc in and copying it to one DVDR. Being able to finesse things such that they work the same as the original on one DVDR is like an artform right now. I'll have to find a new hobby when it's gone. I really am lazy when it comes to watching movies though. I really don't want to have to keep up with multiple discs for one movie or get up in the middle of a movie to switch discs out.

[chips144]

Trilight,

Oh to be young enough to be able to sit through an entire movie without having to get up to pee half way through. Even if the movie can be made to fit on 1 dvd-r, I still have to stop it somewhere in the middle. LOL.

Seriously, I do understand your point. The journey is sometimes more rewarding than the destination. For me, it also is a hobby. From vcd to DVD2SVCD to DVD2DVDR to DVDXCopy to DVDSplit & DVDBurn I have them all and have used them all. The excitement was in the learning. Indeed very few movies are made in one year that even warrent watching, let alone buying or copying. I have to go now, you know what I mean?

[Bigbucks1959]

Yes, doing a 1:1 copy of a DVD5 is just plain BORING...I enjoy the challenge of finding a DVD9 that needs encoded with CCE and then calculating the proper bitrate in order to get the best quality video on my DVDR....

PK

[Antonio S.]

TRILIGHT:

Look at this software...http://www.dvd2dvd-r.de/index.php or http://www.magazinwelt.de/forum/software.html

I think that DVD "auto" copying software would be a reality in the near future...

Antonio S.
www.antonio.owns.it

[timekills]

Sometimes a DVD-9 just will not be able to be copied using DVDXCopy or even Derrow's own DVDSplit (yes - I got it, even though I don't use it, I use IFOEdit so much the $25 for Derrow was well deserved)

Case in point - Sopranos DVD (or other multiple episode in one titleset DVDs). This DVD (Season 1, Ep 1 if you are following along in your workbooks) has one vobset that includes 4 PGCs. The automated programs try and find a "split point" in the "main movie". All well and good but - there is NO "main movie". There are FOUR main movies. So all one would end up with is one episode that would easily fit on a DVDR split over two DVDRs, and the other three episodes in limbo.

Sorry - still no one shot, one kill program. I may use DVDSplit in the future for single title movies that I want to keep everything on, and if I am in a hurry - and for this, it may be great. But, as said before, the only way I see a truly automated way to backup a DVD9 is when/if we get DVDRs that have 9 GBs on them.

(Now if someone could just tell me why my video and audio that are the same length are asynch in Scenarist for this Sopranos DVD I'd be a much happier man ;) )

[hendrix]

Originally posted by Bigbucks1959
Yes, doing a 1:1 copy of a DVD5 is just plain BORING...I enjoy the challenge of finding a DVD9 that needs encoded with CCE and then calculating the proper bitrate in order to get the best quality video on my DVDR....

PK

i thought i was the only person who thought the same way:D

hendrix

[chips144]

DVDXCopy v1.2.1 is supposed to handle multiple series like Sopranos. I don't have the dvd, therefore I can't verify this. But it is worth a try.

[scimani2]

DVDXCOPY 1.2 has some bugs...everytime it went to encode, it froze up around 50% on various discs. Plus it tells me the time to encode to hardrive is about %100 longer than it used to be (60 min as opposed to the usual 30)...so i went back to 1.1. I have also burnt the sopranos 1st and 2nd season and you can pick the chapter point to be in the middle so it usually works out to be 2 discs with 2 episodes on each, except the last discs which is 3 episodes. Hope this helps someone.

[chips144]

DVDXCopy v1.2.1 fixes some bugs that remained in v1.2. Also there is to be another release probably tomorrow that corrects a slight PAL problem relative to "Insert Disk 1" where it should say "Insert Disk 2"

[TRILIGHT]

Guess what bugs my own personal methods of going to one disc have? None! hehe :D

[Tyris]

Haha... ;) Oh Trilight...

[TRILIGHT]

Yeah, I'm a bastard. I know. hehe ;)

[Doom9]

bastard or not.. he's right.:devil:

[ramutan]

Ok Trilight, you got me.
I a newby to backup DVD to DVD+R and I kinda need a good guide, can you describe for me what kind of software you use to do your backup's??
Or even better, what about a guide from you? :D (i know, Im asking to much already).
But I settle for a direction to a good guide, I want to mention that I want to create a navigation menu(not to complicated, just chapter points, I been doing some testing on SpruceUp) istead of just the plain movie.
Also I created my first backup but I wont play on Pioneer players, well it does play but you can't go back or foward with chapters. The backup play fine on my Philips 724 but no sound on my Playstation 2 and the main thing is to let my son watch the backup's on the playstation 2.
Any coments from the greates people on this forum will be welcome.
:D

[brandonros]

Trilight,

You speak of fitting DVD9s to DVD5s so often. Well, I'm somewhat of a newby as well. I've burned around 75 dvds so far with all the free basic downloads on doom9 (I'm a cheap bastard). I've used only dvddecrypter or smartripper, wonderful IfoEdit, and Nero. Well, how do you get all of your movies onto 1 dvd? Is it really possible without spending much money and losing much quality? For example, I'm trying to burn the new anime movie, Metropolis. It's only 106 minutes and has several different audios. I keep trying to keep english(surround) and japanese(surround). Is it not reasonable to expect these to fit? It also has jap. DTS, but as much as I love my sound system, I've even decided on dumping that. And I'm sure you may want to direct me to a newby topic on this forum. If you can, please do. But in the point of this topic, I agree with you 100% in that any software made that would throw out quality(video or sound), as they tend to do, is crap. TIA

[Antonio S.]

@TRILIGHT:

Well, what seems to be an impossible dream, soon will be real!!!

First it was DVD2one, now it will be InstantCopy 7 from Pinnacles...

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage.asp?Product_ID=1153&Langue_ID=2&SID=199

Antonio S.

[int 21h]

Instead of cutting all of these programs down, and mowing down the developers, do something constructive and help them improve the programs.

CCE may offer the best quality at the moment, but it has a largely prohibitive cost for most anyone who wants to legitimately purchase the software.

[Fmazzanti]

Uhmm... I can not fully agree with you, Trilight. Taken word by word, it's true that there are many different kinds of DVD's and many different flavours in encoding, but at this point I don't see there's a significant difference to what happens with DVD -> SVCD encoding.
Somebody could create a nice piece of software as DVD2SVCD that converts DVD9 to DVD5, and I'm pretty sure *many* people would be satisfied with it. DVD2SVCD uses CCE to create 'quasi-perfect' copies of video streams, and you can put there many audio tracks and subtitles. BTW, many people here is using DVD2one, and the only complain I could hear about it is that it lacks the video quality of CCE. Well, if you do something similar using CCe instead, I'm pretty sure 80-90% of the people would be more than satisfied...

[waldok]

That's just about what you want to achieve and why you are interested in DVD tweaking. FMazzanti, no doubt some people would be satisfied with a "swiss army knife" that does it all, but that's just pressing a button and let it roll...

If your goal is to produce 10 "backups" a day (backups of DVDs you don't own, see the kind of backups...), then go for a quick movie-only-rip solution and be happy. In this case, I doubt you will ever be interested in most of the discussions held right here in the forums.

If, as trilight said, you think "the journey itself is rewarding", then you'll spend hours demuxing, encoding, and most of all understanding what's inside these little shiny discs. That's the point. Same discussion as for programming a tool vs buying it off the shelf. There is more to DVD authoring than copying movies. It's about "learning" and using your brain.

Now, I doubt this point of view would interest copiers at all, and I don't mean to judge anybody since not everybody is forced to take interest in MPEG, AC3 , authoring and so on. I used to use some all-in-one tools (great DVD2SVCD program) a lot before I got a DVD burner. Now, with all the possibilities you have when authoring a DVD, there is so much to learn that it's gone way past "backup" and more into a real hobby (which was not the case with SVCDs, except for SVCDs made of family videos, with all the nice editing job that looked like an authoring of some kind).

Still, I must admit that these tools (talking about DVD2ONE here) are nice if you want to quickly backup a movie for kids for example. But you cannot pretend these tools can be used for backups (not currently at least), since the quality is far from approaching the original DVD most of the time. If it is, then it's a DVD5 and you could have backuped it with DVDDecrypter directly, so...

So there are no good and bad people here, just people who want to copy movies as fast as possible , and people who want to understand how it works.

Different interests, different tools, different goals and different people, that's how life goes.

Have fun .

Waldok:cool:

[Antonio S.]

@int 21h:

Well, I am not "cutting all of these program now"...
If you read the the beginning of the post, Trilight said:
I'm sure many of you have heard the term "if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is!" Well, the same holds true of "DVD Copying" software. If you took some time to educate yourself with the guides here on the site, you would find that there is a LOT involved with creating a perfect backup of a DVD disc. In fact, to be perfectly accurate, there is no "perfect" backup of a DVD-9 (read dual-layered) disc as you simply cannot fit 9GB+ onto a DVD-R disc. .. My answer to his post was that in my opinion it was possible. Time tell that I was right!!! At this moment you can use DVD2one, InstantCopy (coming soon), DVD2DVDr, DOITFAST4U, etc...and again this is only the begining...

Antonio S.

[int 21h]

Originally posted by Antonio S.
@int 21h:

Well, I am not "cutting all of these program now"...
If you read the the beginning of the post, Trilight said:
My answer to his post was that in my opinion it was possible. Time tell that I was right!!! At this moment you can use DVD2one, InstantCopy (coming soon), DVD2DVDr, DOITFAST4U, etc...and again this is only the begining...

Antonio S.

My comment was directed towards the thread, and not in particular towards you.

Regards,

--int 21h

[waldok]

This is an exact exceirpt from another post in another doom9 forum (I won't mention the guy, it would not be fair).

"thanks to this program I rented and copied 6 movies today with only 12 clicks and $6.00 for rental fee's and it only took 8 or so
hours.. "


I think this one says it all about what this tool is for (do I need to say which tool it is about ?).

How exciting...let's open a contest : who will rip the biggest amount of DVDs in one day...:p

Waldok :cool:

[m1482]

How things had been changed since "TRILIGHT" begins this post!!!

DVD2One, Instant Copy, DVD95Copy, DVD Shrink, DVD Clone, etc., just to name few (and there are more comming up)...

m1482