DVD-R / IMAGE FILE reliability; something to consider...

[TP2K]

- having had my fair share of unreliable DVD-R media (you know, about an hour or so into the movie and it breaks up...), I was well and truly annoyed...

Well, I did do a search of the forum and couldn't find anything that highlighted this, so here goes;

I have used all the cheapie discs (BulkPaq) as well as more expensive (TDK etc), and have to say the more expensive the disc the better the reliabilty results. BUT, who wants to pay £4 per blank disc when inevitably you can buy the real thing for little more s/h or in the sales...?

So, I thought I would add an extra task to my DVD ritual and have found great results (touch wood!). I generally strip the movie files, re-encode as necessary and then re-author (just the movie) using Scenarist. Once done, I am using Prassi to burn a data disc using the VIDEO_TS file created in Scenarist...

The added task? I now load up IFO Edit and import the new Scenarist created files, and from within IFO Edit I am creating a disc image... once created, I then burn said image using Prassi.

The thing is I have now had 100% success rate on these images so far (about a dozen or so BulkPaq's later). I have not had the usual image/audio break-ups/skipping as previously experienced; and this is on the remainder of the VERY SAME PACK that break up with a burn of the VIDEO_TS folder that Scenarist created...

Might be a flook, but I think there may be something worthwhile in creating an image file of ANY files before burning (whether Scenarist re-authors or staight-forward disc rips). It works for me!

- Anyone else care to comment?

[gooki]

Thats the exact method I recomend to people and use myself (except i use Maestro instead of Scenarist) with excellent results on cheap low cost media.

The only media I have that creates skipping/freezing/pixelisation no matter what i do is VIVASTAR. And I'm pissed cause i have a spindle of 100 of them that I can't use and I can't sell because they are so shite.

One quick question does your motherboard have a VIA chipset? I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the skipping but it would be interesting to see as I have a theory.

[TP2K]

...er, no idea about the motherboard! It's a Sony RX203 package...

[gooki]

Go into Control Pannel>System>Hardware>Device Manager, and click on the + next to IDE ATA/ATAPI controlers.

If you see the following:
VIA Bus Master IDE Controler

you definetly have a VIA based motherboard.

[TP2K]

...it says;

82801BA Bus Master IDE Controller

[drafty]

Hi Guys,
I have tried TP2K's and others suggestion and have had positive results. DVD's that have had glitches in the middle and one that would not even start the menu after the warnings now work glitch free.
I have managed to come to some sort of conclusion at least in my own mind on this issue however and this is that:
using the directory method
First I used nero...
Nero does not produce very good DVD-Video formated disks that will play on Xbox it does produce disks that will play on my Sony dvd player and on PS2 however.
Next i used...
Vob instant this is much better and produces disks that will play on all three but some disks don't seem to work on the sony for unknown reasons.
I then tried Prassi this works very well mostly but again some disks still did not work on my sony dvd player. I then switched from using the directory structure method to using ISO images this is working up to now very well and the disks that previously had problems work fine now. Its early days yet for me but I am sticking with creating an image with IFOEDIT before buring with Prassi.

Thanks for the suggestion

Regards,
Drafty


:p

[padre]

I also was having playback issues with movies and getting errors towards the end (many, many months ago), but since I started doing the extra step of creating an image with IfoEdit, no problems! I also dumped the Princo and no-name discs, and started using Ritek/Primedisc.

One little secret that I learn from someone here, to improve the performance of the image building - save the image file to a different hard drive (seperate from the source files). Improved my image creation time 50%.

I used to burn my DVD's by using Prassi or Nero and just dragging the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders and burning. That gave me those poor results. And I did a similar test using the image file, no problems! Even on completely filled DVDs! That was enough for me. Have been using image files for the last 400-500 DVD's, every one a winner.

[Taxidermista]

I've tried the imgtool.exe you're talking about and I don't know how to burn that .img file with Nero o Recordnow MAX. Could you explain this a little?

[sidar]

nero: file - burn image, than select "All Files", now you can choose your img file, and than burn it

recordnow: file - new job - other image, than add file, select "Image", choose your img file, burn it.

dvd decrypter: mode - iso - write, select your file, click burning button.

[Taxidermista]

Thanks for the reply sidar. :)

[bezerk]

"I have used all the cheapie discs (BulkPaq) as well as more expensive (TDK etc), and have to say the more expensive the disc the better the reliabilty results"

"I also dumped the Princo and no-name discs, and started using Ritek/Primedisc"

"The only media I have that creates skipping/freezing/pixelisation no matter what i do is VIVASTAR"

you can create your image with dvddecrypter, scenarist, imgtool or any other half decent tool (except nero IMHO, nero can screw up vcd, svcd, dvd, I stoped using nero since ver 5.5 when svcds wouldn't work in philips players anymore) and it WILL WORK if U use decent media, that doesn't include princo, bulkcrap, vivastar...........
Sometimes, but only sometimes this disks work but usually not, even if U do voodoo.

[H-O-V-E-R]

I have gone through a lot of frustration, not in encoding and authoring my DVDs, but in the burn process. I like to keep as much as I can in the original DVD without sacrificing video quality. The lowest I would re-encode is 3000kbits with 5 pass VBR in CCE (if this is bad let me know cuz my TV isn' exactly high definition). I always keep the menus, subs, one audio track, and if I can some extras. Now I have done all the Scenarist things and IFOedit stripping things and IFOupdate things and I have a VIDEO_TS folder with what I belive is a working DVD minus some stuff I don't want. Now I usually load this folder into PrimoDVD and burn away and had success for the first few DVDs, typically the older movies. With other movies the folder burns fine and the DVD plays in my player, but some of the linking is screwed up. For instance the startup screen appears but then the DVD stops. I have to hitthe menu button to get to the menu. What I found out is that PrimoDVD is burning some of the IFO files on my DVD-R as blank because its thinks they are corrupt cuz I still have references to stuff I ripped out. But if I make an image and burn that then all the linking works fine cux PrimoDVD apparently doesn't check the image file for DVD compliance. So like everyone else I am gonna stick to making images even though it will add another step and make the process a little longer.


I am still searching for a way to strip an entire PGC from a titleset cleanly so the DVD-R dosen't even knwo it was once there.

[gedo]

I've been reading this thread with interest as I think it may solve some compatability problems I've had......I did have 1 question :

If I use the 'create image before burning' procedure, is it then safe to do a straight copy-2-copy using Prassi with the newly created disk as a master ???

[gooki]

Yes you can then use Primo DVD or DVD Dcrypter to do one to one copies of your newly creadted disc.

[gedo]

Thanks for the info......I'm trying the image method right now and will try the disk tonight in a 'problem' player.

[gedo]

Update : done a disk last night using the imgtools to build an image and dvd-decrypter to burn it (I normally use Nero to burn directly from the VIDEO_TS files) and the resulting disk worked on a player which had before now refused to play any DVD-R disks !!!!

A resounding success for this method and I'll be using it to burn ALL my disk from now on.

Anyone having player compatability problems should try an image burn.

[wfn1]

When using Nero use DVD-Video rather than ISO/UDF. Also, do not relax ISO restrictions. You're guaranteed to get a working disc, the whole idea of creating images is to have vobs burn in a certain order, when you choose DVD-Video, Nero does it for you. There is absolutely no difference between discs burnt using this method and the ones burned with prassi / dvd-decrypter + imgtool.

[rjgn]

Originally posted by wfn1
You're guaranteed to get a working disc, the whole idea of creating images is to have vobs burn in a certain order, when you choose DVD-Video, Nero does it for you. There is absolutely no difference between discs burnt using this method and the ones burned with prassi / dvd-decrypter + imgtool.

Really? In that case why won't my Samsung 709 (a VERY picky player) play discs wrote with the latest version of Nero. But it WILL play them if I write them with ANY other method (ie RecordNow Max, Gear PRO and from Image file using RecordNow Max or DVDecryptor). Plus I get far fewer skips and problems if I write from an image file.

Nero has never been the best when it comes to DVD writing, it's getting better but there certainly IS a difference burning with Nero.

[wfn1]

Nero has never been the best when it comes to DVD writing, it's getting better but there certainly IS a difference burning with Nero.

I don't quite understand what this is based on, when you have the right layout and proper ISO settings, that's that. It has nothing else to do with the program, they send the same MMC commands to the drive to record. You have to keep in mind though that you will get glitches regardless of what software you use. I've had issues with the image method using prassi and dvd-decrypter burning at 1x to the same media to which nero burned fine. The movie would pixelate or chapters would freeze. I chalked it off on faulty generic media which was btw RitekG03 (one of the better generics if not the best). I've burned over 2000 discs with my DVR-104s and my DVR-103 and I can tell you that prassi/dvd-decrypter don't do any woodoo magic that makes the disc better. Again, make sure you're doing everything right in Nero.

[rjgn]

Yep I understand the theory, I've double and triple checked all the options in Nero but I just can't get it to burn a dvdr that'll work in my Samsung 709. My pioneer yes no problems.

I do agree with you though :) There's no reason why it shouldn't work.

[gedo]

One of my 'problem players' is also a Samsung 709 and I agree with rjgn , it will not entertain disks burned using Nero...another machine is a Awia DV370 which also has a dislike for disks burned using Nero....Both these machines play fine when offered a disk burned from an image using either Prassi or DVD-Decrypter.

Another observation is that Nero-burned disks have always played fine on my PS2 but I've noticed the introduction of slight niggly problems when using the image method...so it's 'horses for courses'

From the little experience I've had doing this so far I'd say that the burn method and tools DO have an impact on the compatability of the finished DVD.

[hevnbnd]

Ok i saw this and figured you guys could help me. I am using imation dvd+rw disks and was using nero to burn with but never could get to work on xbox, i then moved to creating an .img with ifoedit and was able to play the movie on the xbox it however is not perfect their are spots where i see squares. I am using DVD Decrypter 3.1.3.0 and then i am using info edit to remove the other languages. And then after creating the image i burn withdvd decrypter. How do i need to clean up the movie. Please help. Thanks bri

[drafty]

I think that your media is probably the cause here. I use DVD Master DVD-R's and Verbatim DVD-RW's. I find these work fine on the XBOX along with the image method and Prassi.

I myself don't understand why this seems to work better but it does Nero produces disks that are not XBOX compatible for me , even latest version using DVD-Video....

[Vortexvan]

I like to drop a few words to,
after testing and testing i get now the
same results no matter wich kind of burning
process i do, it worked for my very well
with NERO, VOB Instant CD/DVD and also
burning an imagefile.

The only thing i do is i`m NOT using the
DVD Templates in either Nero or VOB instant.
ONLY the DVD UDF Templat is working well.
Nero and also VOB Instant sort the files
even if you use DVD UDF DATA Template!

It seems to me that the players have Problems
with the ISO/Joilet which is automaticly used
if you choose the DVD Movie Template.


Regards
Vor

[drafty]

Vor,
are you just testing on your Thompson dvd player?
Im testing on a Sony DVP 735 , PS2 , XBOX and a SCAN SC2000.
I guess the point is if it works for you and your happy...
I look at it from the point of view that even though I hardly watch DVD's on my XBOX, if Nero is generating XBOX incompatible DVDs then what other devices are going to be incompatible? Surely the best method is the method that works on everything that I have available. I seems to be clear from the majority of posts that my statement regarding XBOX compatibility is shared by alot of people who post to this forum. So perhaps this could be taken as a given...? Unless there are people out there that use Nero and generate XBOX compatible DVD's. I guess I'd like to find out. Anybody?

:)

[MadManMars]

I have tried this method and i have got rid of the breaking up near the back end of a dvd film, but the dvd wont play in my standalone i have a warfdale 750s, but my mate puts it in his sharp standalone and it plays fine.

but i am new to this so i was thinking am i doing anything wrong

i am following the movie on its own guide on this site.

could do with talking to someone who knows what they on with realy, any help would be nice.

[drafty]

Sounds like it could be a media issue with your warfdale. DVD-R's are not gareenteed to play in equipment unless specified. I suggest taking a look at some new media. I personally use DVD Master media 95p a disk. These work in everything I have tried them in using the image method so far.
Regards,
Drafty

[TP2K]

MadManMars; quite simple - the Wharfdale 750 is not compatible with DVD-R/RW...

[Yeah Right]

Where do i buy dvd master media?

[drafty]

DVD master media can be obtained from www.wcwmedia.com.
They do appear in DVD Decryptor as RITEK G03's however.
They come with a printable top.
:)

Drafty.

[Yeah Right]

Du you know anywhere they ship outside UK?

[atreides93]

So do you think its "ok" to burn the image using Nero or is Nero just total crap in your opinion?

I used to use Nero in UDF/ISO mode and 99% of the time it was great...then one day I found that a DVD I had wouldn't play on my set top player and I couldn't see any reason for it.

I think the image method does help prevent some problems...

[drafty]

@atreides93
well I think there are some pretty wierd reasons why some things work and others don't some people have no problems with ne method and others do... it seems to depend on your writer/hardware configuration etc.
However my findings to date ( and these are personal ) after burning lots of DVD's over many months, are that you should use Primo DVD to write an image created with image tool.
DVD masters will write at 2X on hacked 104 firmware but I have experienced unreliability in my Sony set top box at 2X. So im sticking to 1X. To answer your question I think that Nero has some problems even the latest version. For some reason it writes XBOX incompatible disks, you may think thats not a big deal if you don't own an XBOX but ask yourself the question what else is the produced disk incompatible with.... Your next DVD player perhaps... also as stated previously in another post some DVD's simply won't play on my set top either... No i'll stick to Primo thanks.
BTW I have tried using DVD Decryptor lately and I have experienced problems with the DVD's written out when played back on my Sony Set top. I wrote the same image out again last night using Primo I'll try it next week and repost back.

The new image tool also uses the Nero API this has produced XBOX incompatible disks also. So for me its imgtool 0.89 and Ifoedit and Primo DVD.
So I hope I have answered your question and perhaps given you some usefull info.

Regards,
Drafty

[atreides93]

I think i'll stick to imagetool 89...
i just used dvd decryptor to burn an image..it seems to work ok in my set top player.
i have prassi so i could use that too.

[wellyman]

OK. This post is answering almost all my questions. Now I am wondering: I have always used scenarist to create the dvd files, then burned with Instant VOB (which I will never, ever use again).
Is there any difference in the image files, or quality, with the program used? Reason I ask is scenarist can create image files, .dvd ext I think. Can I then burn this image to disk? Or is it better to take the scenarist files and create image file with outside program? I'd like to try to burn with Prassi, since it seems from all the posts that this is the one with the least issues. I would just like to know what the best program, or method to create the image file. Thanks to all you pros out there for sharing all your lessons. You have all saved me many coasters.