Standards Conversion Forum?

[Xesdeeni]

Since standards conversion (PAL<->NTSC) typically requires various tools and varies depending on the source and destination formats, would it be useful to have a forum just for discussing this, rather than putting discussions into individual tool or format forums?

Xesdeeni

[Wilbert]

I'm busy with hakko making AviSynth scripts for NTSC,FILM,PAL to NTSC,FILM,PAL conversions (including audio). If you want we can sent them to you next week, so that you can comment/improve on them.

The idea is to add this stuff to the AviSynth FAQ in time.

[Xesdeeni]

Although I may never finish, I'm doing something similar. However, I don't think AVISynth is appropriate in all cases. I'm trying to limit the tools a bit, but I'm trying to create conversions from pretty much every format to/from every other format (PAL/NTSC film/NTSC VCD, PAL film/PAL/NTSC film/NTSC SVCD, PAL film/PAL/NTSC film/NTSC DVD, NTSC/NTSC progressive/PAL/PAL progressive DV, PAL/PAL film/NTSC/NTSC film video tape). But I'm not trying to address authoring the media itself.

Since I'm not sure I'll actually complete the document, I thought I'd propose a forum that I could 1) post pieces as I do them for comment, and 2) at least be able to share what I DO get done.

It'd be a shame to duplicate efforts, though. Shall we share?

Xesdeeni

[Wilbert]

We have done that already (well, Hakko did the most). I will sent you the file within a few days so that we can discuss it.

edit: maybe you could pm me your email adres.

[Doom9]

here's a document that might interest you: www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm

[Xesdeeni]

My eyes crossed about halfway down. But that's only part of standards conversion. What I was hoping to put together was a page that was first for beginners. It would have a matrix with the following sources:

PAL
-VCD
--All
-SVCD
--Film
--Video
-DVD
--Film
--Video
-DV
--Progressive
--Interlaced
NTSC
-VCD
--23.976

--29.97
-SVCD
--23.976
--29.97
-DVD
--Film
--Video
-Tape
--Film
--Video
-DV
--Progressive
--Interlaced

And the following destinations:

NTSC
-VCD
-SVCD
-DVD
-DV
PAL
-VCD
-SVCD
-DVD
-DV

As we filled it in, clicking on the intersection between two would bring up step-by-step methods to do the conversion. For example:

PAL VCD -> NTSC (Film) VCD
1. Load the source DAT file into TMPGEnc as the "Video Source" (the "Audio Source" selection should automatically change to match the "Video Source.")
2. Select the "Wave file" item in the "Output to file" sub-menu of the "File" menu.
3. Choose a location and filename for the destination wav file.
4. Click "Save" to convert the MPEG 1 audio to a wav file.
5. Create and open a new text file with an avs extension (to be used with AVISynth), using your favorite text editor.
6. Add the following lines, replacing the filename appropriately:
WAVSource("DRIVE:\PATH\AVSEQxx.wav")
DelayAudio(-.4)
ResampleAudio((44100 * 25000) / 23976)
AssumeSampleRate(44100)7. Save the avs file.
8. Load the avs file created above into TMPGEnc as the "Audio Source."
9. Load the "VideoCD (NTSCFilm)" template into TMPGEnc.
10. Specify the location and name of the "Output file name" with an mpg extension.
11. Choose "Motion estimate search (fast)" or "Highest quality (very slow)" in the "Video" tab of the "Setting" dialog.
12. Check the "Do not frame rate conversion" in the "Advanced" tab of the "Setting" dialog.
13. Press "Start" to convert, encode and multiplex the video and audio.

Of course the tools used would also be defined and links to obtain them would be given.

Also, there will always be alternate ways of doing this, using different encoders or tools of various types. I don't think we could ever include all the possibilities, but I think we can start with the easiest and most common tools (e.g. TMPGEnc seems to be the most popular MPEG 1 encoder) and add optional conversions as they are requested. But this will allow a beginner, or someone who does standards conversion only rarely (which seems to be the norm) to have a single quick reference at their disposal.

Would it be possible to start a standards conversion forum to work on this?

Xesdeeni

[ppera2]

Such forum is very good idea, and I wonder why Doom9 reacted like this. IVTC is well known and much used, but we need lot more conversions which are much harder case. Actually I think that this is one of hardest things and with lot of space for improvement. Currently I convert some music DVD-s to VCD and there is a lot of combinations and problems.
Most of them is video, so interlaced and converting NTSC to PAL VCD is not easy thing, even when VCD has low resolution.

So, Doom9, if you can, please make new room :) .

[BizUser]

I would love to see such a forum as I've spent a week converting a PAL DVD to NTSC SVCD. I've gotten it to work, several different ways, and would like to share experiences and learn more. I'm unsure where to post such results, observations, questions. I used DVD2SVCD, but also fooled around with it's sub-components (DVD2AVI, TMPEGEnc, etc) and got good results, so should I post in these various forums?

If a forum is not warranted (too little interest), then how about a FAQ or Guide? A FAQ or Guide could pull together various posts as appropriate.

Thanks for the great tools, site, environment!

[Doom9]

there's currently more than enough forums that are still to small imho and cluttering up the forum isn't going to help. If any interest group thinks they can just get their way even if the subject doesn't really merit its own forum then we do have chaos. Real fits nicely into the new A/V formats forum for instance.

Now let's look at your list. First of all.. interlaced/progressive/film.. we have that nicely covered with the video basics and IVTC tutorial pages (and the decomb guide), wouldn't you agree? It's a problem that is specifically related to any format conversion.
So what's left? audio. 1) extract (vdub to wav, covered many times), while ripping (part of the ripping guides), or during the dvd2avi process (part of the format conversion guides). Then load into besweet, set the proper output format and check the correct frc preset, press encode and you're done.
Then video: after deinterlace/ivtc we have framerate change (that's where wilbert's scripts would come in), resolution change, feed into an encoder where things are as usual.
So, it looks to me as if it's merely a question of putting the right already existing solutions together and you're all set.

You know what's going to happen if you create a forum for that? The people interested in IVTC want their subject split out, the people doing deinterlacing want their own forum because they can't stand all the bickering by the IVTC people and the frc people, etc etc. I think that FRC conversions belong into audio and ivtc/deinterlace/changefps/change frame size belong into Avisynth.