TDKG02 and "generic" 2x DVD-R media

[bouis]

QTCCDR (http://www.qtccdr.com/) is selling 2x "House Brand" DVD-R media (marked and formerly advertised as Princo) for $1.10 per disc. Shipping is extra. I purchased and recieved a 10-disc cakebox labeled "PRINCO," one identical to the ones in which Princo DVD-RW discs are sold, although I do not know if they are packaged by the manufacturer or by QTCCDR.

ADVDINFO reports the media as TDKG02. Burned discs are not recognised by a Lite-On DVD-ROM (model LTD-165H, bios dated Oct. 2, 2002.), nor in an unbranded DVD-ROM in a 1 year-old Dell machine. Neither drive has had trouble reading DVD-R in the past. Discs do read successfully in the Pioneer 104 DVD-R/RW and in an Apex 1100W set-top player, from beginning to end, even when burned past the 4.0 GB mark (completely full).

The discs look like Princos; they even have the same scuff marks along the bottom side of the inner rim, but ADVDINFO reports them as TDKG02. They burn at 2x.

It has been suggested that Pioneer charges media manufacturers for 2x certification. This, in addition to the observations here, suggests that the discs may not be TDK at all, but manufacturered by others with TDK information to allow them to be burned at 2x.

I have no further evidence to offer; this is purely speculation. But, accepting this data, the reasoning appears solid.

So, my question to the members of this board: if you have encountered poor-quality 2x discs reported as "TDKG02," do they fit the physical description of these Princo discs (suggesting a single manufacturer (Princo?)) or do they come in all shapes and sizes, so to speak?

For reference:

A Princo "Ver. 2.0" DVD-R Disc. I've successfully burned more than 100 of these, set-top compatability is acceptable and less than one percent failed burns. All completed burns verified successfully and played successfully on Apex 1100w. The top surface is white, and the rim on the top is gray. Most have "scuff" marks on dye-side inner rim. The dye is a light purple. The rim (on the top side) reads: H021191053408.

ADVDINFO:
00 42 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 50 00 02 98 0C 13 .B...@....P.....
76 78 80 00 03 50 52 49 4E 43 4F 00 04 00 01 00 VX...PRINCO.....
00 00 00 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 ................


A Princo "Ver. 2.0" DVD-R 2x Disc. The top surface is white, and the rim on the top is white as well. [edit: the rim is gray, not white.] Most have "scuff" marks on dye-side inner rim. The dye is the same color as the 1x variant. I've burned 5 of these, all verified successfully. All work in the Apex 1100W and DVR-104. The rim (on the dye side) reads: 2XP3526583410502.

ADVDINFO:
00 42 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 50 00 02 98 0C 13 .B...@....P.....
76 78 80 00 03 54 44 4B 47 30 32 00 04 30 30 30 VX...TDKG02..000
30 30 30 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 000.............


A Princo "Ver. 1.1" DVD-RW Disc. The top surface is white, and the rim on the top is white as well. The dye is a dark, reflective silver. The rim (on the dye side) reads: A202070403915 PRINCO.

ADVDINFO:
00 42 00 00 01 40 D6 FD 9E D8 20 00 02 0E 07 05 .B...@.... .....
88 76 09 00 03 50 52 49 4E 43 4F 00 04 00 00 00 .V...PRINCO.....
00 00 00 00 05 0B AC 76 0C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 .......V........

[gooki]

It has been suggested that Pioneer charges media manufacturers for 2x certification. This, in addition to the observations here, suggests that the discs may not be TDK at all, but manufacturered by others with TDK information to allow them to be burned at 2x.

That sounds very possible. Which is bad news for us as it completely destorys the use of advdinfo for comparing 2x media.

[klona]

It sounds strange to me. If done that way, it would probably be some illegal workaround that princoused, because I cannot imagine why TDK would officially agree on such a deal with princo.
And I cannot imagine Princo doing this sort of business, but who knows..

Anyway, I feel it's time to put a sticky post to offer ONE method to test buring process and medias, because, once again, this could be relative to a bad combination of burner-media-burn_software. We already saw that.

[alexnoe]

Princo is not even able to make reliable 1x media. If they would indeed make that 2x media on their own, you would not get one single successful burn. My guess is that Princo sells B-grade TDK media.

[sarahjh69]

I was sent a Datasafe Classic (no speed rating given) for testing
silver top, purple underside...no scuff marks...completly unmarked
Datasafe Media & Datasafe Classic written on top
Advdinfo says its a TDKG02...........

Burnt perfectly at 2x

Plays in liteon 163 and liteon 165 with no problems
I'm completely satisfied with it

I wonder if everyone is using TDKG02 just to bypass the 1x
pioneer rip off!!!

[klona]

I don't think so. A brand is a brand and the only way to see a brand sell another products with another brand ID is OEM.
So i follow Alexnoe, and more believe there is different quality level in TDK manufacturing (not they do 2 qualities, but test production and decide if the product is A or B)

so, i believe it's TDK grade-b OEM also.

I must add I have 4 TDK-R2-1 from cdr-by-mail ( Choice Branded 4.7GB 2X General Purpose DVD-R ) and they all play fine in standalone, PS2, no I/O error, burned X2.

You know, we see it's very difficult to find good media, so we can also bet there is sometime some bad production, even for usually good discs, even with quality check in production.

[bouis]

because I cannot imagine why TDK would officially agree on such a deal with princo.

There is no mention of TDK anywhere on the discs or in any software but ADVDINFO; the user is never expected to see it. Why should there be any "deal" at all?

I don't think so. A brand is a brand and the only way to see

a brand sell another products with another brand ID is OEM.
A brand is a brand? What does that mean?

Princo is not even able to make reliable 1x media. If they would indeed make that 2x media on their own, you would not get one single successful burn.

Not true at all. The white-topped Princo 1x discs are quite professionally made and, in my experience, just as reliable as any other brand. I'll use them as long as Princo sells them.

My guess is that Princo sells B-grade TDK media.

Why do you believe this? These discs are poor-performing, in specific and consistent ways. Have we ever seen a "B-grade TDK" disc (physically) branded TDK?

I think that the only way to answer this question is to actually ask Princo, TDK, and Pioneer. I've only brought the suggestion; don't expect a follow up to this with their replys from me, so anyone who wishes to take it up with them should feel free to do so. Any volunteers?

[alexnoe]

I have to add something I think: If you look at experiences on german forums, it seems that especially the Princos in Germany are very bad. Maybe Princo sells all their B-grade crap to us :angry:
Another possibility: Maybe Princo are only the worst media available here, while in USA, the average crap is even worse, so that you consider it good, not because it is good, but just because it is still better than some others.

here is no mention of TDK anywhere on the discs or in any software but ADVDINFO;cdrecord-prodvd also reads it.Have we ever seen a "B-grade TDK" disc (physically) branded TDK? :confused: I don't need to see it. B-grade is everything which is of significant lower quality than other media with the same ID ("A-grade").

[gooki]

I still agree with bouis.

I realy wouldn't put it past Princo to use TDK's 'TDKG02' stamp to
enable 2x burning of their media. And what you will see is that no-one
actually sells Princo 2x media, just weird ass house labled media that
looks exactly like the princo 1x discs, but stamped as TDKG02 to allow
2x burning.

Reason why I'm prety sure it's Princo doing this.

1) No other DVD-R manufacture I know uses the same white top that
princo use.

2) As far as I know TDK do not use violet die (light purple) but
rather use the darker purple dye.

3) Retailers are now describing them as house brand 2x media, thus
removing Princo from the description. The reason for this could be
because the Princo wholesaler/manufactures do not want TDK to find out
princo is using the stamp to enable 2x recording hence forcing retailers to descibe them as house branded.

However this is all speculation and I would be glad to be proved wrong.

I'm looking at buying some 2x DVD-R from a different twaiwanese manufacture, and it will be interesting to see if they use TDK's stamp to enable 2x burning like Princo might be doing.

[bouis]

The Princos that I have experience with were all labeled "Ver. 2.0," suggesting that older versions exist. Perhaps these older discs were of lesser quality.
I don't need to see it. B-grade is everything which is of significant lower quality than other media with the same ID ("A-grade").
I intended to ask:

Has anyone used TDK-branded (physically, like a label or marking) discs which are of this "inferior" quality?

[thxtof]

I would like to clarify a few points.

There are at least 3 kinds of TDK x2:

1- Branded in jewel case, with logo painted on the disk
2- Un-Branded in cake box, with only a small "TDK" written on the inner spindle.
3- EOM TDK, sold under various name like Princo x2, Meritline x2 or "TDK genuine" on e-bay, etc...

1- & 2- are physically exactly the same, except the painting on 1-. There are both very light purple, and ADVINFO reads "VX...TDKG02". Perfect finish, both of them gave me 100% successful burn and good playability.

3- are different, the dye has a different color, there is no TDK inscription what so ever. They burn OK in x2 but seem to have compatibility issue with some players. ADVINFO read ".....TDKG02" no VX.

I could not imagine that some company like Princo take the risk to "steal" TDK fingerprint just to be able to burn in x2. It's already so easy for us to check the manufacturer info, so imagine for TDK. It would take them only a mn to realize the scam !

I think that they just have a deal with TDK, they get the crap made by some manufacturers working for TDK, producing lower quality EOM disk.... for much cheaper :devil:

[bouis]

3- are different, the dye has a different color, there is no TDK inscription what so ever. They burn OK in x2 but seem to have compatibility issue with some players. ADVINFO read ".....TDKG02" no VX.

These have VX.

[thxtof]

Hmmm then It's probably a "b-grade" version of the "TDK" branded/unbranded, that did not pass all the tests to be a "TDK" product.

If it's true I would stick with official TDK products.

BTW there are some branded TDK x2, in jewel case, sealed, sold at $2.40 on eBay ... the cheapest I have seen so far :cool:

Personnaly I get them in 25 cake box from rima.com at also $2.40 piece.

[sarahjh69]

TDKG02 white label 2x cost 70p ($1.10) bigpockets
TDKG02 datasafe classic silver (2x) 90p ($1.50)

someone is being ripped off!!!!
$2.40 is way too much....

[thxtof]

Well obviously there are different quality of TDKG02 media.

In my case I have been only 100% satisfied with the TDK branded one, either in jewel case or cake box, with TDK label on it.

You might have been lucky with some cheaper EOM package, but I am not gonna take the risk to order 90 DVD-R that might not even play in my system.

I'd rather pay $1 more and get TDK warranty and quality control, or pay $1 for Riteks that are so far the most compatible x1 media I tried.

[sarahjh69]

an update to the TDKG02 media
I just got 90 white label x2 dvd-r media
they have VX...TDKG02 in the ident

THEY ARE TOTAL CR#$
burnt 4
4 failed to read

86 back in the post to the supplier
don't waste your time with these

but whats really wierd
Datasafe Classic Silvertop .....TDKG02
are the best media I have ever had
burn at 2x, and are the fasteest ever
in my liteon 163 and 165

what on earth gives with this media!!!!!
dye colour on VX and non VX are exactly the same on my dvd-rs

[thxtof]

Thanks for the info sarahjh69, you confirm the theory that there are different quality of "TDKG02"...and you also confirm the saying "you get what you pay for" ;)

1) The EOM TDK "white label" at $1 that you tried does not work at all -- BTW are you using the hacked firmware that let you burn everything in x2 ?

2) The TDK "datasafe classic" at $1.50 seem to work ok but we should wait until you burnt more of them.

3) The original TDK at $2.40 gave me 100% good results in x2 :D

[sarahjh69]

all my burns were data dvds burnt at 2 speed and took
29 mins to burn with 4.37gig of content (.avi files)

i burnt 2 datasafe classic .....TDKG02
1 with original fw 1.20
1 with 2x 4all fw 1.31
both were full to the brim, both work brilliantly
and are recognised really fast

i burnt 4 white label 2x VX...TDKG02
2 with original fw 1.20
2 with 2x 4all fw 1.31
3 failed completely and crashed my pc when put in a liteon
1 sort of worked but had read errors so i couldn't read all the files
(the 1 that sort of worked was fw 1.31 2x 4all but i think it was a fluke it read at all)

[rjgn]

Just picked up my Pioneer 104 the other week. Tried a few media.

Bulkpaq Gen3, FWS Gen3, ICE all work fine on my Pioneer DV-340.
None work without skipping and pauses on my Samsung 709 but that's understandable.

I've come to the conclusion that if it won't work on my Pioneer then the media is not worth buying.

After hearing good things about the Datasafe Classics I bought a pack of 10. Just checked and they are indeed TDKG02.

I burned a disc on one the other day, a Warner Brothers multi PGC title but only a DVD5. So just a rip and burn, only came to about 3.5 gigs. Did check it and thought it was working fine. Just been to check again and the WB into skips as do the end credits. Presume that's because the WB title is PGC2 and is near the end of the disc.
Now I did write the title on the disc as I thought I was safe doing this with discs that have a proper writable coating as the Datasafe classics seem to have. Also I doubt that this is the problem as it's just near the end of the disc that it pixelates and skips.

I'm gonna try writing a few more and see what happens, will report back my results.

[rjgn]

Just burned another one,

Almost filled the disc this time. Once again pixelation problems and skipping during the last few chapters :(

[Sy]

I've been reading this thread for the past half hour trying to figure everything out... Here is my conspiracy theory:

bouis: your disks A (Princo "Ver. 2.0" DVD-R Disc) and disk B (Princo "Ver. 2.0" DVD-R 2x Disc) are Identical disks probably cut from the same press... *except for the "VX...TDKG02" on the 2.0 disk's lead in identifier. Which allows the disk to be burned at 2X. Why do I think they are identical? Because I've been burning the "A" disks at 2X without any problems. I have the Firmware that allows 2X burning. One other thinkg I should note.... My Disks have the same identifier but I didn't get them from QTCCDR... I got them from Meritline for $.78/ea. They are exactly as you describe. My guess is that Princo (or TDK or are they the same) decided that they could make some extra $$$ by changing the identifier to "VX...TDKG02" and selling the disks as 2X...

Continuing my investigation....... Will update when I find out more..
~Sy

[thxtof]

Both my "unbranded" TDK x2 "VX....TDKG02" and my "genuine" TDK x2 from ebay "......TDKG02" burn in x2 with firmware original 1.32.

So only "TDKG02" makes a DVD-R x2 compatible, at least virtually :D

[bouis]

bouis: your disks A (Princo "Ver. 2.0" DVD-R Disc) and disk B (Princo "Ver. 2.0" DVD-R 2x Disc) are Identical disks probably cut from the same press...
Using the "2x for all" firmware, I've burned a Princo 1x disc at 2x, and it retained the performance and compatability of a 1x disc.

The "2x" discs' compatability is inferior.