double images

[unknownx]

hi there

i had encoded an interlaced movie (PAL) using 'fast deinterlace' filter in Gknot, but after encoding i get a film that has a ghost image occuring, i used version 0.26 to do it with no success, i also tried 0.26.1 with no success aswell, this is the following codes i used on my avs file.

#
# PLUGINS
# get them from http://users.win.be/dividee
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\decomb.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\InverseTelecine.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\Avisynth_Spatial.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\GreedyHMA.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\vobsub.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\SimpleResize.dll")
#
# SOURCE
mpeg2source("C:\new\movie.d2v")
#
# TRIM
#trim(startframe,endframe)
#
# IVTC
#Telecide()
#Decimate(cycle=5)
# or use
#InverseTelecine(40,10,15)
#GreedyHMA(1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0)
#
# DEINTERLACING (1)
#FieldDeinterlace()
#
# CROPPING
crop(12,123,696,330)
#
# DEINTERLACING (2)
VerticalReduceBy2
# or maybe
#GreedyHMA(1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0)
#
#
# SUBTITLES
#VobSub("FileName")
#
# RESIZING
BicubicResize(576,256,0,0.75)
#
# DENOISING: choose one combination (or none)
# 1) little noise (fast)
#TemporalSmoother(2,1)
#
# 2) medium noise (slow)
#SpatialSoftenMMX(1,4,6,false,false,4,4,6,8)
#TemporalSmoother(2)
#
# 3) heavy noise (very slow, you have been warned)
#SpatialSoftenMMX(2,4,6,false,false,4,4,6,8)
#TemporalSmoother(3)
#SpatialSoftenMMX(1,4,6,false,false,4,4,6,8)
#
# BORDERS
#AddBorders(left,top,right,bottom)
#
# COMPRESSIBILITY CHECK
# !!!!Snip Size now has to be 14 for use in GKnot!
#SelectRangeEvery(280,14)
#
# FOOL CCEnc
#ResampleAudio(44100)

any advice will help, thanks, btw- i had used dvd2avi field operation:none.

Thank you

[jggimi]

It's hard to say what the cause is, without examining the source. With PAL dvds, it's possible that it isn't interlaced, even though dvd2avi reports that from the mpeg2 stream. According to Doom9's guide: Frame Rate = 25.000 fps: your source is PAL. If the frame type is Interlaced, start the preview again and watch closely if you see no horizontal black lines going thru the picture then the frames are actually progressive and you're already done here. If there are such black lines, try changing the field order by selecting Video - Field Operation - Swap Field Order and run the preview again. If you can still see horizontal lines reset the Field Operation to None, otherwise leave it as it is. Since you have Field Operations set to None, I assume you saw interlace artifacts (lines) and swapping field order didn't fix it. If it truly is interlaced content, you might find that GKnot's Smart Deinterlace option ... which turns on DeComb's Field Deinterlace filter, provides better results. Fast Deinterlace cuts the resolution in half before resizing.

However, it might be a conversion from NTSC. Hakko504 wrote a section for PAL dvds in a new tutorial: "Force Film, IVTC, and Deinterlacing - what is DVD2AVI trying to tell you and what can you do about it?" , where he discusses three different types of PAL discs in some detail: Progressive, Interlaced, and conversions from NTSC. Here's the link (http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm).

[unknownx]

thanks for the advice, i had tried smart de-interlacing and the film still seems to provide a double image effect :( (using 0.26) I have not tried it with version 0.26.1, since there is noo option for smart de-interlacing but has the option - field de-interlacing. Do you think it will work?
When i played the vobs on dvd2avi i can black horizontal lines, i choose the force film field operation but still i get the same effect, so i decided to go back to none and creat my d2v file this way.

[unknownx]

i have also tried it with swap field order and still get lines happening

[unknownx]

i just did a search and found that another person had the same problem as me. HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16278&highlight=ghosting)

he has changed this on his avs script:
# SOURCE
mpeg2source("E:\!work\futurama\extracts\ep1\vts_01.d2v")
AVISource("E:\!work\futurama\extracts\ep1\vts_01.d2v")
#
# DECOMB
Telecide(postprocess=false,blend=false,debug=true)
#
# CROPPING
crop(11,2,698,572)


do you think i should do this? if so, where do i put this in my script and do i have to delete anything from my script

sorry guys, got to bear with me i'm a newbie :)

[manono]

Hi-

Here's your original script without all the unneeded stuff (the way you should have posted it in the first place):

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\new\movie.d2v")
#Telecide()
crop(12,123,696,330)
VerticalReduceBy2
BicubicResize(576,256,0,0.75)

Now do this:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\new\movie.d2v")
Telecide(Post=false)
crop(12,123,696,330)
#VerticalReduceBy2
BicubicResize(576,256,0,0.75) and open it in VDub and scroll around to where there's movement and advance frame by frame. Does it look better? This script will take care of cases where the fields are shifted. That's much more common for PAL than actually being interlaced. If that works, then replace Telecide(Post=false) with Telecide() which turns the deinterlacer back on (still should look the same). If it was still heavily interlaced then try:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\new\movie.d2v")
Telecide(Blend=false)
crop(12,123,696,330)
#VerticalReduceBy2
BicubicResize(576,256,0,0.75) and see if you like the appearance any better. There won't be any ghosts or double images, but there are other drawbacks to interpolating. If you don't like the appearance of that, then you might try:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\new\movie.d2v")
#Telecide(Blend=false)
crop(12,123,696,330)
SeparateFields()
SelectEven() #or SelectOdd() if the output is jumpy
#VerticalReduceBy2
BicubicResize(576,256,0,0.75)

Again, no double images, but other drawbacks. Read the portions of the Decomb Help File included with GKnot that apply to PAL people. Read our Tutorial (http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm), particularly as it applies to PAL.

Edit:

By the way-don't ever Force Film a PAL DVD-it will give you 20fps. And you should probably make all your crop values even numbers-your top and bottom crops are odd numbers.

[unknownx]

thanks for the advice manano, i tried all the different codes but still the quality looks the same to me.
I'm not worried about the horizontal lines at the moment, because i figured that if i use fast deinterlace or field deinterlace i have solved the problem, but once i do the de-interlacing, and encode my movie- i get a ghosty vision when there is fast movement of my xvid on both deinterlacing options. I just checked the avs script and the codes are EXACTLY the same as each other...
is this just me or is there something wrong?

well, i tried your other lines and i still get a slight double image when i check it on virtual dub. Without using the de-intelacing tools, i get an interlaced movie with your codes.

[manono]

Hi-

So they didn't help, eh? OK-try this because I think you must have a case of blended fields. That is, if I'm correct, then the source comes with the ghosts or double images already. If that's the case, then nothing can be done. You'll just have to try and find the solution that looks the least bad:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\new\movie.d2v")
#Telecide(Blend=false)
crop(12,123,696,330)
SeparateFields()
#VerticalReduceBy2
BicubicResize(576,256,0,0.75)

So, now there are twice as many frames. But try and find a place where there were the double images before. If you see them still, then the situation is hopeless. It means that someone did a very bad job when creating the DVD. hakko504 has some advice as to what to do in our DVD2AVI-IVTC Tutorial (http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm). Scroll down near the bottom to "THE UGLY: DVDS CONVERTED FROM NTSC TO PAL." But I'm afraid that's about all you can do in such cases.

Edit: By the way-don't actually encode using that script. It's just to get an idea of what is actually on the DVD. If you still see any double images, then at least some will still remain no matter what script you actually use for the encoding. I don't see how there will be any interlacing with this test script, though.

[jggimi]

Smart Deinterlace = Field Deinterlace. Both use DeComb's FieldDeinterlace() command.

When previewing .avs scripts in Vdub, I find it easier to comment out the resizing command -- it lets me see interlace artifacts more clearly, and lets me see the results of deinterlacing the same way. It might work for you, too, and help differentiate what's happening.

Manono's last suggestion, a SeparateFields() without SelectEven/Odd, will let you see if the ghost images are part of individual fields.

[unknownx]

i tried all your different codings and yet, i was not successful :(
i watched the dvd on my stand alone dvd player and i realised that their is also a slight ghosting, not as much as when i watch it on my computer. Is there anything i can do to fix it?

[jggimi]

Have you looked, frame-by-frame, at a sequence with ghosting (Vdub with .avs, GKnot with .d2v)?

Do you see those ghosts when you examine the same sequence in an .avs that has

SeparateFields()
SelectEven()

Because then, you're only looking at one field of each frame, not a full frame. If the ghosts exist at the field level, there may be solutions, but I'm not aware of any.

[unknownx]

yes, i've tried that but i the ghosting still seems to be there- but the movie is much more jumpy :(