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View Full Version : 16:9 Menus on 4:3 TVs


dan
2nd October 2002, 05:49
I'm pretty sure that I have the answer for this one already, but I figured you guys would know better than I...

When authoring [or even viewing, for that matter] menus that are 16:9 [true anamorphic 16:9] on a traditional 4:3 TV with a standalone DVD player, is there a way to view the entire 853 x 480 image instead of just a 720 x 480 section from the middle of the frame? That might sound confusing, but I do think some of you know what I'm talking about. But for those who might not....

The standalone DVD player [in my case, a Panasonic], does resize the 16:9 video stream for the menu [as it would for a "regular" 16:9 video stream], but it doesn't add the black bars to the top and bottom. Instead, it "cuts" the sides of the frame, but because of the resize [16:9 unsqueezed], the aspect ratio is correct.

This screenshot (http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~dcf797/SaltonSea/Salton.jpg) demonstrates this...[I've tinted the area that the TV doesn't display green].

I've changed the 'TV aspect ratio' setting in the DVD Player; both 4:3 Widescreen and 4:3 Pan and Scan have the same result [the sides are clipped]. Oddly [well, in my opinion], setting the option to 'widescreen' squishes the image so that the entire 16:9 image [although distorted] fills up the TV without using black bars at the top and bottom [unlike a "regular" widescreen stream that would be missing the sides of the image and look distorted]. Without taking pictures of the TV screen [or transferring the TV's analog image to my camcorder and through to the computer...a lot of work], I guess it's a bit tough to convey, but if you want pictures, I'll see what I can do.

It would seem that, in my experience, stand-alone players resize the menus the way that they want to, not the true image. The discs I have that have widescreen menus [Dark City, The Salton Sea, Shrek, etc.] all show as 853 x 480 [well, Shrek is a tad closer to full frame than that, but that's not the point] on a computer's player, but have that odd resize/clipping thing going on on standalones.
And there isn't some register checking going on here either [it's possible for the disk to check for widescreen or fullscreen set-up within the player], but the menus exist in just one form.

Also, the "Hollywood" movies that have widescreen menus don't have anything important on the sides of the screen that are clipped out [see the screenshot from earlier for an example of this, and how it only has decoration outside the middle of the frame]. I do think the "professionals" are onto something...

In short, can standalone players re-size widescreen menus and display the contents correctly and completely?

[I made the post as large as I did in case other people would want to use this as a reference of sorts so they wouldn't ask a question that's already been answered.]

If you're about to say, "Why don't you just make fullscreen menus? Most people don't have widescreen TVs." The menus took a long time to make [artistically, technically, etc.], so I'm reluctant to go back to the drawing board. And, I'd like to own a widescreen TV [in a few years] and at least be able to see the wide menus on a computer [as they seem to visually "work" better...being in the same or similar aspect as the movie]. And third, the authoring is a tad easier in Scenarist if the menus are in the same VTS [or title] as the movie [remember, only one aspect ratio per VTS]. Sure, it makes for sloppy authoring, but I've become proficient at doing it that way. [Also if anyone has ideas for using the Video Manager and Dummy PGCs to select audio tracks via buttons on the menu, I'm listening...I've only had luck having it all in one VTS. With the video manager, I've set-up what looks to be correct, but got some sort of error about how a PGC can't be a blank PGC or whatnot. But, I'm sure it's possible.]


Anyway, thanks in advance.

Dan

auenf
2nd October 2002, 12:48
ok, i know the exact problem/issue your talking about

on early versions of spruce DVDMastro range of products, there was a subpicture bug regarding this.

there has been a couple of threads on this, one of them it was mentioned that for every menu, there is 4 subpics, when using a menu, the subpics are created automatically for you (the bug in the old versions was that the auto creation didnt do it properly, resulting in wrong highlights). When using button over video, you can have different subtitle tracks for each view mode (http://www9.brinkster.com/sportschook/?subpicaspect.jpg).

as for why it does that, i dont know, and i dont recall an explanation in any of the older threads, but a good guess would to give people with older tvs the ability to read the text on menus that was originally meant to be stretched out over a wallmounted 130cm Plasma TV (or something to that effect).

Enf...

dan
28th November 2002, 09:27
Here's the deal...

The menus are encoded at 720 x 480 at 16:9 [like any other widescreen menu] but with the pan and scan flag turned on. This causes a defined area of the anamorphic image [still or video] to be stretched out to fill the 720 pixel width. Generally, for menus, the area stretched out is the middle 540 pixels. This "stretching" negates the effect of the anamorphic horizontal squeeze [everything looking taller and thinner than it should].
And I think that's that.


Dan