Two problems with an encoded movie

[apjorz]

Hi!

I just gave up encoding in Divx4.14 and decided to go for Divx5 & Gordian Knot. I'm quite new in both of them. I've chosen the movie Taxi (PAL version) to test it...

My first attempt to encode resulted in an unsuccesful compressibility check and a 800 mb file. I solved the problem by reinstalling Divx5, with the Gain bundle.

So I followed Doom9's excellent guide to encode my movie. It's plain PAL anamorphic with nothing special, I wanted to do a 2cd rip with twol vbrmp3 audio tracks. The compressibility check finally reported no errors, Gknot worked quietly for several hours with the movie, then I had on my HD the best looking rip I ever made. However...

The overall quality is really good, smooth as it has to be, I am able to switch the audio tracks as well, but I've noticed two problems I don't understand. Please help me! :)

1. The end of the file is simply missing!! About 10 minutes, including the credits. I've decided to encode the credits separately, but the jobs were all finished, Gknot reported no errors at all. I also checked that on the Gknot bitrate tab, the length of the movie is correct, so that's not the VOBs' or the d2v's fault. When finished, I still had about 1,5 Gigs of HD space, so I don't think that could be the cause. Besides, it would be simple to drop an error message in case of "HD full", but nothing...

2. I noticed several coloured dots in some surfaces in the film. I will post an image to illustrate the problem: the "Taxi" word shoud be plain yellow, with no dots inside. I found two occurrences of this weird effect, but I did not watch the encoded movie till the end. The dots are present in the entire image sequence, and are quite randomly moving. It does not occur on fast moving parts, because the other example is a still image (the big digital display with the number 247, at the beginning).

What could possibly be the cause of these problems? Any of the Divx5 pro features? Maybe HD space? Anything else?

I used the settings in the Doom9 Guide, bi-directional encoding and gmc. The GAIN thing was running during the encode (blocked by a firewall, however). If you wish, I can post or quote the AVS or log files or anything that might help.

Of course, sorry if that was already discussed. I was unable to find any trace of it, my fault :).

Thanks!

P.S. I'll try to attach an image of the artifact...

[apjorz]

About the attachment, I have to figure it out yet :> If you're interested, you can ask for it in e-mail, anyway! When I edit this post, it offers the option "keep current attachment (filename)", but I can't see it anywhere when viewing the post from the outside... :)

[manono]

Hi-

The file attachment has to be validated by a mod (like me or TheWEF). There it is now. And we don't hang out here 24 hours a day waiting around to validate attachments.:)

As for the end credits not being in the movie. Either you didn't create a credits.avs, or you didn't tell Gknot to create and mux the credits.avi or both. So, did you first scroll to where the end credits began (in the bottom right of the movie picture), hit "Set Credits Start", then go "Save And Encode", and tick "Both" in the bottom left Trim box? That should create both the movie and the end credits .avs. You can check where your movie files are kept to see if you have them. Then in the Encoder Tab, hit Add Job, and Select both Frame Server and Frame Server Credits (actually they should already be there), and then check Encode Credits at Average Quant xx. Does that do it, or is something else wrong?

As for the dotted picture. I don't know, although perhaps someone else does. My suggestion though is to do it without Q-Pel or GMC and see if that helps (I know-you said you only used GMC). Thanks for the detailed report-it helps to diagnose the problems. Good Luck.

[apjorz]

Thanks for helping me out with the attach ;).

As for your remarks:

Either you didn't create a credits.avs, or you didn't tell Gknot to create and mux the credits.avi or both.
I followed the Doom9 Guide by the letter. And as I wrote (sorry if it wasn't that clear:)), that's not just the credits that are missing, but a whole 10 minutes, including the credits and the end of the movie. The job for the credits was done without errors, by the way, I still have the avs, and it's in the Gknot log also. I can post it, if you're interested.
So, did you first scroll to where the end credits began (in the bottom right of the movie picture), hit "Set Credits Start", then go "Save And Encode", and tick "Both" in the bottom left Trim box?
Yes, as described in the Guide. The preview window also showed "Credits start: XXXX" and later the results of the compressibility check.
That should create both the movie and the end credits .avs. You can check where your movie files are kept to see if you have them.
Yes, I have them in the folder I specified.
Then in the Encoder Tab, hit Add Job, and Select both Frame Server and Frame Server Credits (actually they should already be there), and then check Encode Credits at Average Quant xx.
As they should be there by default, I might have missed the first part. But I did the latter with the default settings (20). Anyway, the credits _were_ encoded and appended (I can see this in the log and I saw VirtualDub working:)), so I don't really know what to think.
Does that do it, or is something else wrong?
I don't think so, but thanks for your kind and fast reply anyway! I'll keep trying :).
As for the dotted picture. I don't know, although perhaps someone else does. My suggestion though is to do it without Q-Pel or GMC and see if that helps (I know-you said you only used GMC).
The firs thing I'll try is to encode with the same settings (keeping my eye open for the jobs however), but without GMC and see if the dots are gone. As GKnot uses fast recompress, it's much faster than the method I used (Divx4.12+plain 2-pass with VirtualDub, full processing), so it's not really a waste of time :)).

By the way, I know it's not the topic, but as you seem to be quite experienced, so I risk to ask another question :). So when I opened the movie later in VirtualDub, it reported no video error at all, but said the vbr-mp3 headers were incorrect, and it replaced them with 160kbps CBR header while processing the file. Is that normal, or is there another way to encode the audio (I also followed the Doom9 Guide here, but with --alt-preset 160. I had to type it manually, because there was no drop-down list for the options...) ?

Thanks again, you are very helpful!

[manono]

Hi-

Well, the new question is easy, but I'll admit to being stumped now with the earlier one. Gknot uses VDub to encode the video, but uses Nandub to mux the audio and video together. VDub can't handle VBR MP3. So, when opening the completed .avi, use Nandub.

Back to the first questions. Did you do anything screwy with that box in the lower left part of GKnot? Like change the fps? Try something. Open the .avs in VDub and scroll to the end to make sure that the .avs includes the frames for the whole movie. Then open the end credits .avs to make sure that it includes all the end credits frames. Go File-File Information and check to see that it's 25fps. You said it's a PAL movie, so you didn't Force Film in DVD2AVI, of course. Play near the end of the .avi. Does it get real ugly? I'm thinking that maybe the last part of the movie was encoded as end credits with Quant 20 and then appended. Check the GKnot log and make sure that the number of frames encoded is the correct number. If nothing turns up, then post the log and the .avs (remove all lines of the .avs starting with "#". Curiouser and curiouser.

[apjorz]

Well, the new question is easy, but I'll admit to being stumped now with the earlier one. Gknot uses VDub to encode the video, but uses Nandub to mux the audio and video together. VDub can't handle VBR MP3. So, when opening the completed .avi, use Nandub.
Oh, how dumb I can be sometimes. Of course! Thanks and sorry about wasting your precious time! :)

Back to the first questions. Did you do anything screwy with that box in the lower left part of GKnot? Like change the fps? Try something. Open the .avs in VDub and scroll to the end to make sure that the .avs includes the frames for the whole movie. Then open the end credits .avs to make sure that it includes all the end credits frames. Go File-File Information and check to see that it's 25fps.
No, I did not change anything, since I knew 25 was the good value. I checked both files, they contain all the frames (happily split at the right place) and they are both 25 fps.

You said it's a PAL movie, so you didn't Force Film in DVD2AVI, of course.
As you say, I did not do anything like this :).

Play near the end of the .avi. Does it get real ugly? I'm thinking that maybe the last part of the movie was encoded as end credits with Quant 20 and then appended.
No, it remains perfect till the end, I mean till the point it's cut off... But if you were right, I should still see the credits. The 'credits start' point is, of course, correct.

Check the GKnot log and make sure that the number of frames encoded is the correct number.
Well, the Gknot interface (still containing the data from the .d2v file) says the movie has 129335 frames. The last time in the Gknot log where a frame number is mentioned, is the first pass (it says nothing about the second pass, since it assumes it's the same), it says 122909 frames. That's correct, because the credits part had 6425 frames, and that gives us 129334 together. But the final movie only contains 114639 frames! Could this be a mere problem of disk space during encoding? I don't really know, because the intermediate files were deleted and I still had 1,5G free at the end, and I'm almost sure the programs could somehow handle it, or at least display an error. I'll post the .avs and the log file ASAP. I'm also very curious! :)

Thanks again!

[apjorz]

I remember now, I once had a disk space problem when I encoded something. It just dropped the framerate in VirtualDub to zero, and when I made some space, it continued without error. As for our case, I sat near the computer all that day and I did not notice anything wrong...

[manono]

Hi Again-

As it seems that you did everything exactly right, I no longer think it's a procedural error, but a codec problem. The very first line of your first post should have tipped me off:

I just gave up encoding in Divx4.14 and decided to go for Divx5 & Gordian Knot.

Does that mean that DivX4 is still installed? If so, you have to get rid of it. The 2 codecs conflict-they can't co-exist together. Try Start-Programs-DivX4-Uninstall or go into Add-Remove Programs. Then install DivX5 again. Based on what you told me about the first pass, you may be able to get away with just rerunning the second pass but I'm not positive. If you decide to reinstall GKnot (not a bad idea when you're baffled, and don't install DivX4), make sure you reinstall DivX5 afterwards. Check out jggimi's reply at the end of This Thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34708) which has been running along side of yours for a couple of days.

Edit: I was thinking also that it may be a disk space problem, as you've mentioned a couple of times. Before those Intermediate files were deleted, you came fairly close to filling the Hard Drive, and conceivably could have caused GKnot-Nandub to stop the muxing. Too bad you don't have the Intermediate Files to see if all frames were actually encoded. Any way you can free up some more space for the next try?

[apjorz]

Hi!

As it seems that you did everything exactly right, I no longer think it's a procedural error, but a codec problem. The very first line of your first post should have tipped me off: I just gave up encoding in Divx4.14 and decided to go for Divx5 & Gordian Knot. Does that mean that DivX4 is still installed? If so, you have to get rid of it. The 2 codecs conflict-they can't co-exist together. Try Start-Programs-DivX4-Uninstall or go into Add-Remove Programs. Then install DivX5 again. Based on what you told me about the first pass, you may be able to get away with just rerunning the second pass but I'm not positive. If you decide to reinstall GKnot (not a bad idea when you're baffled, and don't install DivX4), make sure you reinstall DivX5 afterwards.

(Of course, I meant Divx 4.12 :))

Well, the first failure I had with divx5 resulted from a bad codec config (I had a 900 mb avi instead of 2 cds, looking like crap but with fine ac3 audio:))). Then I reinstalled divx5pro (GAIN) and that seemed to work just fine. In fact, I tought that it was best to decode each movie with the appropriate codec, so I always kept the three versions on my computer (3.11alpha, 4.12, 5.02). But if they really can't coexist, I'll try to completely get rid of divx4 and reinstall divx5. Just to be sure, I'll also reinstall GKnot :-). With the codecs, I had no problems so far, I'd even say divx4 encoding works perfectly with divx5 present, because I've done some rips. It's just the another way...

Btw, are you still curious to see the log/avs files? (I don't think they could hold much information anymore, but it would cost me nothing to post them...)

Edit: I was thinking also that it may be a disk space problem, as you've mentioned a couple of times. Before those Intermediate files were deleted, you came fairly close to filling the Hard Drive, and conceivably could have caused GKnot-Nandub to stop the muxing. Too bad you don't have the Intermediate Files to see if all frames were actually encoded. Any way you can free up some more space for the next try?

Yes, of course. But you see, I wouldn't like to make more disk space and uninstall divx4&reinstall divx5, because I would never know which one solved the problem. So I'll first keep trying with this codec config & more space, and then report back. Thanks for your hints!

[apjorz]

It may also be a good idea to suggest something to GKnot developers: a label showing the estimated disk space required to complete the rip, and a warning box that appears if the free space is below the limit.

[apjorz]

So I'll first keep trying with this codec config & more space, and then report back.
Oh gosh, I forgot and reinstalled DivX5... :)) So anyway, I'll free up some space and retry!

[jggimi]

Reminder 1 -- if re-installing Gknot, do NOT install the DivX 4 component, that will overlay DivX 5 files, possibly causing the problem all over again.

Reminder 2 -- to completely uninstall Gknot, you must first push the "Delete Registry Keys" button from the Options tab before exiting the program and deleting the file folders.

[apjorz]

Hi!

I re-encoded the movie, this time with plenty of free disk space and gmc disabled (I also got rid of all DivX, then reinstalled Gknot (without DivX4) and DivX5). There is nothing missing anymore, so I guess that problem was caused by low disk space. BUT the dots are still present. I tought that maybe bi-directional encoding could be the cause of the problem and was going to re-encode again, but... then I decided to try something. I looked into the VOBs - of course, no problem. Then I opened the .avs and actually FOUND the dots. That means it is not at all related to a codec problem. So I began to tweak a bit with the GKnot settings, opening each time the .avs file that is saved (without encoding, of course) and searching for the dots. The results: UNLESS I leave the input height on 704 AND disable cropping, the dots remain. Yes, I mean it: wether I choose to follow the ITU standard or not, I choose the smart cropping or by pixels, I decide to increase (!) or decrease the height, the dots are present. It seems to me that the resizing and/or cropping algorythm GKnot is using is somewhat buggy. OR - that's also possible - there is some sort of error generating the .avs file, I don't know, but the output is wrong... Or the smart guys producing the DVD found something difficult to rip! (improbable, because the film and also the DVD are pretty old). Since I generally like to "investigate" every "case" until the very end, driven by a sudden idea, I used the good old VFAPI converter to get a frameserver avi from the .d2v. I cut the thing to have just the artifact part (I'm frankly getting sick of re-encoding the movie over and over again:)) and encoded it with DivX5, One pass mode. The result is perfect, resized and cropped by Virtual Dub, without the dots.

Now what do I do? I would miss the advanced capabilities of GKnot (like re-calculating bitrate, doing the audio for me, credits separately etc... that's why I decided to use it). But how could I resize and crop outside and then encode it w GKnot without any conflict and pain? How does GKnot work with an external .avs file? Or am I doing something wrong? What do you think? Can you suggest anything else I could try?

Thanks!

[manono]

Hi-

Well, you're nothing if not thorough. Good for you. First, it has nothing to do with GKnot. It is using other tools-programs (i. e. AviSynth) for its work. It could possibly be a problem with the crops/resizers. This thread is getting too long for me to go back and reread the whole thing. Did you say anywhere what crop values you were using? Did you experiment with different resizers? For the sharpest and (I think) best resizer, you might install the new AviSynth 2.0.6 and try out the LanczosResize (or get the .dll and do the LoadPlugin thing and then insert the LanczosResize). In addition, the new AviSynth has fixed some resize bugs which might account for your problem. You can get it here:

AviSynth 2.0.6 (http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/SupportUtils/AviSynth_206.exe)

So, if that doesn't work, maybe you can post a sample .avs with the crops and resizes that produce the dots (leave out all lines beginning with "#"). Did you use any other filters? If so, leave them out and see if they caused the problem.

[apjorz]

Hi again!

First, it has nothing to do with GKnot. It is using other tools-programs (i. e. AviSynth) for its work. It could possibly be a problem with the crops/resizers.
I did not mean to blame GKnot any way, I know it's rather a GUI. Sorry, I was referring to these external routines :)).

I did not mention the crop values I used. I was following the guide, so I did Auto Crop, and when I saw it was O.K., I used Smart Crop all. I also tried to crop manually in GKnot. Btw, my resolution was 640x272. But that does not really matter, because even if I disable cropping and leave the black lines, the dots appear if I don't use 704x???. That leaves me only one possible resolution in order to avoid the artifact. The resizing: I had the same problems with every Bicubic method, I didn't try Simple or Bilinear yet. This is a good idea however, I'll try them. And about AviSynth: GKnot just uses the version that is present, no matter which one it is? So if I just install the new AviSynth, it'll use it to create the .avs without any trouble? (what dll(s) does GKnot use?) I will also do that, but not today...

For the Lanczos filter, is there a way to do it within GKnot, or do I have to edit the .avs file? If so, how do I find help about it?

Thanks, as usually :)

[manono]

Hi-

OK, you've tried some of the resizers, but I still need to see the crop values to make sure they're OK (hint-make sure they're all even numbers-the crops, not the resize). So, if you have one of the .avs's around that produced the dots, or can recreate it, that would be good. There were problems with the Bicubics that were fixed with the new version. The new version comes as an .exe. Just doubleclick to install, and then carry on with GKnot. It won't skip a beat. As for LanczosResize, yes, you'll have to edit the .avs. Just add Lanczosresize(640,272) or whatever in the same area of the other resizers (once you've installed AviSynth2.0.6). Use the Edit button at the bottom of the .avs creation screen. And you didn't use any other filters, like the noise filters?

[apjorz]

Hi!

Well, the new AviSynth solved the problem. Mega-thanks! :) Apparently, as you wrote, there was something wrong with their bicubic resizers. Just to make sure, I uninstalled Gknot+Avisynth 1.06, then reinstalled them. Dots yes. Then installed AviSynth 2.06. Dots no. It's that simple :p. Thus, posting the .avs file would no longer be of any use, but I can recreate and post it anytime if you're curious.
They have probably corrected it, whatever it was. Thanks go to everyone, mainly manono, and, of course, the AviSynth team :D.

By the way, you had some questions:

OK, you've tried some of the resizers, but I still need to see the crop values to make sure they're OK (hint-make sure they're all even numbers-the crops, not the resize).
Actually, the line is "crop(3,70,696,431)". They were probably the same every time I did smart crop all (at least, for 640x272). I also think they were even numbers. But that does not really matter, because the dots were present even without cropping if I used any bicubic method.

And you didn't use any other filters, like the noise filters?
No, I absolutely did not. (or that would have been the first thing to remove ;)).

I checked Lanczosresize, it does indeed produce a nice picture! Since bicubic works fine now, there is no need to encode the movie with that, I'll try out Lanczos instead. Thanks for your advice! (Maybe it shoud be included in the next GKnot version, along with the new AviSynth.)

[manono]

Hi apjorz-

Where have you been? You mean you have a life outside of video encoding?:)

Thanks for coming back and reporting. I had read of those resize bugs, but hadn't ever seen them myself, so the suggestion was kind of a shot in the dark. It's good to know for the future, in case someone else has a similar problem.

As for crop values being even, it's not necessary all of the time, but is sometimes, and I don't like to tempt fate, so I always do it. For more information, please see this thread, and pay special attention to neuron2's responses near the bottom:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34136

And TheWEF usually implements the latest software-newest filters in his new releases, so it's something to look forward to sometime in the future. If you ever need to run a Compress Test after editing your .avs (by adding LanczosResize, for example), and find you no longer can push the "Now" button to start the Compress Test, then you might be interested in this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34610

[apjorz]

Hi!

Where have you been? You mean you have a life outside of video encoding?

Lemme see... :rolleyes: life, life, what's that? Strangely familiar... oh yeah, I just found one in the drawer! :) So I assume I do have one.

Thanks for the threads you proposed, they were interesting to read. I still have many things to learn about video encoding, so they were no doubt very useful.

As for the Compressibility test & Lanczos, thanks again. I noticed something else, the Edit button going grey if I choose to Trim both. But that's not that annoying, I just edited the .avs manually. The rip is done by know, looks perfect, too. Thanks! :)

[apjorz]

The rip is done by know
done by now, of course :)

[apjorz]

I'd appreciate if you could check this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11944). I ran into another problem... I'm sorry if it has been already discussed, I've been unable to find any trace of that yet. So please see if you have any ideas. Thanks in advance!

[manono]

Hi apjorz-

I don't think that I'll be able to help you with that one. Audio isn't really my specialty, and I haven't had much experience using 2 audio tracks. One thing I have noticed, though, is that GKnot uses a 2 frame interval and 500 .ms preload by default. VDub-Nandub use a 1 frame interval and 500 .ms preload by default, so that's what I've always used. The only time I've used 2 audio tracks is when I wanted the Director's Commentary. Of course, synching isn't important with a Director's Commentary, but I've never had any problems with either track.

But I think you posted in the right forum, so maybe someone will come along to help. I might suggest that you experiment by putting in just one of the audio tracks by itself and see if the synch problems go away. That way you could be sure that's it's because of the 2 tracks that you're having problems. Another thing you might try is to use a different player to see if that could be the problem. I use BS Player and, as I said, have never experienced the problem.

Good Luck.