very annyoing Lines when previewing and capturing!

[fellaw]

Look at this (http://people.freenet.de/TC.Xan/images/capture.png).

I don't get rid of those f**in' lines! I tried everything, newest oem drivers, iulab drivers, btwincap drivers, other capture proggie, bios down- AND upgrade, pci latency patch, aso.

Usually, I'm using iuVCR for capture on WinXP Pro with a Terratec TV+@640x480. As I want so see what I'm capturing, I activated the smart tee filter option in iuVCR. Boom! There where those lines. For debugging this, I limited the capture graph via graphedit, so only wdm capture, crossbar, smart tee and video renderer are used. Looks like the bug is in a filter called avi decompressor, which somehow is linked between the smart tee and the video renderer. If I connect the video renderer directly, those lines are gone! Even in Dscaler the lines appear! So this can't be a driver issue.
Someone plz help me to solve that problem!

Btw, in Win98, there're no lines at all!

[Swan]

Hello Fellaw,

Those lines. They're horrific!
Do they come and go?

Can you test this:
Do you get more lines get when you increase the capture resolution to 720 x 576 (720 x 480) or even 768 x 576 (480)?
If you capture in 352x288 (352 x 240 for NTSC), do they go away?

What color space are you using?
I get similar looking lines when I capture in RGB24 color space.
When I select YUY2, they go away. I tested this with Amcap.

/Swan

[fellaw]

There only appear at resolutions higher than 352x288@pal or 352x240@ntsc.
When I'm watching non-interlaced source material, e.g. movies from the 80's, they don't appear.
I'm capturing in YUV2 colorspace. If I switch to RGB24 or RGB555, they even get more!
This must be a interlace issue with that avi decompressor in my capture graph!
I wrote M$ to fix it, no answer till now.

[Swan]

Oh boy!
I get a clear, nice line-free image with YUY2 at least. But that changing the color space makes it worse is interesting. It's likely then that the problem you're having is related to that. Hmm.. What version of DirectX are you using?

But, if you capture/watch TV at full res, you will see interlacing lines. That's normal, unless you use a capturing software that performs real-time deinterlacing. I guess you already know this.
The lines on your screen shot does not look like interlacing either.

I'd love to know how to build a capture graph in Graphedit! Can you capture that way? I understand if you don't have the time to tell me, but perhaps you have an URL to share where I can read about what to insert into the graph?

/Swan

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

Originally posted by Swan
Oh boy!


I'd love to know how to build a capture graph in Graphedit! Can you capture that way? I understand if you don't have the time to tell me, but perhaps you have an URL to share where I can read about what to insert into the graph?

/Swan


here's some graphedit "primer"

http://www.digtv.ws/html/convert/graphedit.php

(this one is on converting wmv to avi....)

see if that can get you working.....

at least it'll give you some idea.....(i hope)
(just pick filters & connect them)

on btwincap site you have modified wdm utility for capturing
(modification of M$ stuff.....) go there also....

Ivo

[droolian01]

Hi there.

I can infer that you are using a brooktree bt8xx based capture card with a via based athlon mobo. I used to get these lines too, and they are a relatively well known problem. It seems that the image buffer in the tv card 'maxes' out and cannot deliver the data fast enough so sends frames out to your pci bus with these lines in. I think they are lines from previous frames personally. The solution for me was the pci latency patch, i know you have tried it but just verify that it is making a difference by using ssoft sandra or something.

This theory is supported by what you say. Larger resolution frames get the lines (more data to pass to the 'slow' pci bus) rgb capture is also worse than yuy2 (more data to pass again) I bet these lines ossur a little when getting close to the point of droping frames, and get worse as you increase the data rate (increas size, yuy2 ->rgb) until they are in every frame THEN you start getting frame drops.

Definately re examone the pci latency patch issue - sheck it is current and appropriate

Hope this helps

[fellaw]

OK, how to build up a simple capture graph for preview with graphedit:
select Graph-->Insert Filters.
Doubleclick your tuner or pvr card unter WDM Streaming Capture Devices.
Click your crossbar under wdm streaming crossbar devices
Now there 's only one filter left to insert: Smart Tee from the DirectShow section. Now you got to link the video output from the crossbar with the video input of the capture device.
Now rightclick on the crossbar, click properties and select your desired video input.
Next choose your TV standard(e.g. PAL-B) in the properties of the capture device. You have to select your colorspace and resolution in the properties of the capture device's output pin.
Then link the video output of the capture device with the input pin of the Smart Tee. Last thing to do: Rightclick on the capture pin of the Smart Tee and select render. There are a few filters inserted automatically, AVI decompressor and videorenderer. Now you can hit play in the buttonbar of graphedit. If I directly connect the video renderer to the capture device the avi decompressor is inserted again before the video renderer. And again those lines!
So this can't be the Smart Tee. Why? I'll explain:
With Win98, there are no lines at all, same capture graph. One thing to mention: I've got a second filter called Video render in my filter list. It has a different class ID, but comes from the same dll(quartz.dll). I reconstructed how it appeared, I could post it ehre if you wish. When I use it, the avi decompressor isn't used without the Smart Tee. There are no lines! So it must be that AVI decompressor! I deleted all references to that first video renderer in the registry, so only the last one mentioned can be used! But if I use Smart Tee, the avi decomressor is used, I can't prevent that. Without it, the avi decompressor isn't used, and there are no lines. But I want to see what I'm capturing! Btw, I've got no TV.
AmCap produces the same lines!
Conclusion: It can't be to less bandwith on the pci bus, because I get those lines to disappear, but only without the Smart Tee. But that's what I want to use!
Below are pictures of the two capture graphs, if anyone's interested:
with Smart Tee (http://people.freenet.de/TC.Xan/images/capturegraph1.png)
without Smart Tee and AVI decompressor (http://people.freenet.de/TC.Xan/images/capturegraph2.png)
I'm using WinXP with DirectX 8.1 installed. I tried older versions of the quartz.dll also, no difference.

I get no dropped frames at all. The lines don't appear with non-interlaced input!

[Swan]

This is what my lines look like:
http://w1.837.telia.com/~u83704167/formats/rgb24.htm
I get them when capturing in Ulead Videostudio. After installing Btwincap drivers, I cannot select anything but RGB24 and the captures then looks as the ones on the screen shot.

The lines disappear for me if I select YUY2. I can only do this in other softwares, not in VideoStudio. I tested with Amcap.
Capture 720 x 576 in RGB24 = lots of lines
Capture 720 x 576 in YUY2 = No lines

/Swan

PS Thanks for the Graphedit tips. I got it working right away. :)

[droolian01]

Hello again.

I agree with you that pci bandwith is not your problem, but my diagnosis is sort of right anyway. I know knothing of graphedit but obviously sticking the smart tee and avi decompressor slows the transfer of data from capture input to the destination capture software. Surely a bottle neck is a bottle neck. My original capture problems had EXACTLY the same symptoms and my bottleneck was the pci bus, yous appears to be too much filtering prior to you capture application.

The solutions? Buy a tv to watch while you capture. Get a faster cpu. These are rubbish solutions i know but i feel that is all you can do. If i tried capturing with vdub in rgb and had a smoothing filter on and complained of these lines i would be told 'stop using the filter or get a (significantly) faster cpu' - i think this analogy holds.

If you can sort it out another way i would be interested to know - good luck anyway.

[droolian01]

Hi again.

Just had another thought - everyone is mentioning either rgb24 or yoy2 colourspace - are you trying to capture raw with these???? No wonder you can't empty that buffer quick enough!! Just try capturing with Huffuv - it is lossless after all!

If you've already tried this - sorry.

See ya.

[fellaw]

I got these lines when previewing, without capturing!
Of course, they appear on the captured video, too. So this isn't a codec issue. Huffyuv doesn't help. Normally I'm capturing with Indeo 5.11 RTE. Fast, good quality and good compression.
Droolian01: If my PCI is the bottleneck, why no lines with Win98 and exactly the same Capture Graph? Both WinXP and Win98 have DirectX 8.1 installed.
And it isn't a slow CPU(1G Athlon TB), because iuVCR shows me 60%, even when capturing! I even had only the capture card running, without sound and network. No change! This is really boring. :(
I have 2 video renderers in my list, one uses the avi decompressor when connected directly to the video pin of the capture device. The other doesn't. With thee first one, I'm getting those lines, with the 2nd one I don't! So this f***ing avi decompressor is the faulty filter. But I don't know how to force Smart Tee respectively DirectShow not to use it for capturing! Normally, this is only a wrapper for the Video Codec Manager. It decides, wether to use a codec for decompressing AVI streams or not. So what, for god's sake, has this filter to do with capturing?

[Koepi]

When capturing with virtualdub(_sync), going to the second menu from the right, down to the bottom "direct draw acceleration", select "both fields".

This makes those lines go away for me.

Regards,
Koepi

[Maxi]

I used to have this, was caused by CPU cooling program(s).

Turning off all the features during captures stopped them for.

[fellaw]

Maxi: Good cause, I'll give that a try.

[MoonWalker]

Have you tried at Capture->Disk I/O to increase the chunk size?? I had the same problen and when I increas it 4MB+ and 4 chunks in buffer(can't remember exaclty) it solves the problem...


MoonWalker

[fellaw]

I shut down Motherboard Monitor 5, didn't help either. This problem isn't disc or codec related, as I'm getting those lines even when previewing only! And it can't be buffer related, because I'm not getting them in Win98 with exactly the same capture graph and as possible identical or similar drivers. Anyone got ideas?