Question: Encode & Split or Split & Encode

[Darksoul71]

Hi there !

I´ve been experimenting with "CVDs". A Half D1 SVCD. I used MI2 as a base for my encodings.
Using FitCD I macroblockoptimized my source. I encoded the full movie using CCE2.5.
After this I muxed the moviestream with the audio stream using TMPEGEnc. The resulted MPEG2 stream was perfectly in sync. I used MPEGVCR to split the movie to two parts.
Now my problems started:
1) CD1 was in perfect sync while CD2 was async.
2) When I tried to burn those MPEG2 file as "nonstandard" SVCD using Nero, Nero showed me a completely oversized file (far beyond the right end of CD size slider) although the MPEGs are only below 750 MB big.
After I demuxed and remuxed the files with TMPEG Nero recognized the size correctly.

So here are my questions:
1) How can it happen that the big file is in sync while the 2 splitted files are async ? BTW: Audio remained async after I remuxed the splitted files.

2) How do you encode your DVD rips using CCE or TMPEGEnc ? Do you encode your two, three, four CDs seperatly and if so how do you split audio when using CCE for each CD ?

3) Has anyone experienced those "oversize" problems in Nero ? MPEGVCR only offers a choice to save the movie as PS (Programm Stream) SVCD. May be this is the problem ?

TIA,
D$

[wmansir]

I'll take a stab at #2. I use Avisynth to cut the movie and also to extract audio. Here's a sample of my script for Monsters INC:

# SOURCE
mpeg2source("F:\Monsters\monsters.d2v")
ResampleAudio(44100)
#AudioDub(mpeg2source("F:\Monsters\monsters.d2v"),WavSource("e:\monsters\whole.wav"))
#
# TRIM
#0,66965
#66966,0
#
Trim(0,66965)
... crop...resize ..ect.

The above script is (in part) what I use to encode with. To extract the audio, first I convert the entire .ac3 to a .wav using BeSweet, adjusting for any delay and normalizing. That file is "e:\monsters\whole.wav". Then I just uncomment out the AudioDub Line from the above script and open the segment in vdub and Save Wav. Repeat for each segment and then batch encode the resulting .wav files to .mp2.

I'm sure there is a way to do this using BeSweet's partial encoding option, but I like this method because 1. It's frame accurate without having to record hh:mm:ss:cc for each cut2. You can select a small test segment and encode with audio in vdub (which is good for finding places to cut) 3. It's simple.

The only real downside is the disk space needed for the wav files.

[Abond]

To Q1: I really don't know why and how it happened, but sometimes it happens. Try to cut the file with TMPGEnc - probably you'll solve asynch and Nero problems at once. The prob here is that TMPGEnc shows the movie parts you want to cut in lenght (time) but not the file size.
To Q2: I'm using DVD2SVCD, before with TMPGEnc, currently with CCE. D2S use bbMPEG for muxing and cutting, so the suggestion is to use bbMPEG. Here you can set the file size, but not the exact place to cut.
To Q3: No. I've never used Nero for SVCD(CVD) creation. I use VCDEasy to make CD image and CDRDAO to burn. AFAIK Nero can burn cue/bin images, so the suggestion - make CD image with VCDEasy, burn with Nero.
So the answer to the thread title is encode & split
Well, good luck.

[Justinus]

My method is similar to wmansir but I didn't use AviSynth to cut a movie. Instead, I select a range of movie frames I want to encode in CCE straight away.

[Darksoul71]

Hi !


1st: Thanks to all who answered.

@wmansir: Thanks for your sample. I should have thought about AVISynth for splitting. I will do my encoding with two, three, etc. AVISynth scripts and seperate audio as splitting and processing MPEG2 is a real pain in the a..

Even the most expensive software fails here: MPEGVCR, M2Filmedit, etc.

The only cons I see in your method:
1) Multiple files to handle
2) A little bit more editing work :)

Diskspace is not a problem as I use a dedicated 80 GB HD for DV video captures and DVD ripping.

@ Abond:
I should have mentioned that I tried to split the complete MI2 movie in two parts using TMPEGEnc with no success. TMPEGEnc failed because it didn´t show a picture in the "select range" window. Neither when I open up the movie as MPEG2 PS (VBR), nor when opening as SVCD (VBR). I only see a black window and it crashes when I move the slider.

That´s pretty strange because the file plays back fine using WinDVD or PowerDVD.

On bbMPEG: I don´t have a clue how to use bbMPEG for cutting. It´s been ages ago that I used bbMPEG for encoding. Is there a GUI that handles splitting ? Sorry to ask such newbie questions. :(

On VCDEasy: I´m not so happy with VCDEasy. I tried to make a VCD with chapters for a friend which didn´t play back in his DVD player. May be it was my fault but I don´t like VCDEasy. Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I´m pretty conservative and use what I´m used to :)

So the answer to the thread title is encode & split


I guess I´m tending more to split & encode ;)

@Justinus: But how do you split audio ? My version of CCE (2.5) f... up audio. Either there is no audio stream or it´s screwed up.

cu,
D$

[Vapor]

Horses for courses really - I prefer a full length encode then split.

Smartripper to grab as 1 big vob noting the stream length to use in bitrate calc to work out average bit rate for target number of CD's based on 795 meg per CD (mode2 format for 80min CD).

VIDEO > VOB > D2V > AVISYNTH > CCE > M2V File
AUDIO > VOB > GRAPHEDIT > WAV > SSRC > TOOLAME > M2A File

I then use bbmpeg to mux and split at 795meg using SVCD stream type.

Then chuck file into Nero and burn (files are SVCD compliant) :)

Tip: In bbmpeg forget the first screen, just click "start encoding" without touching anything else then use the settings bit in the next window for the rest of the job. You'll see what I mean when you get there :)

Choose whichever method suits your needs.

[Justinus]

Originally posted by Darksoul71
Hi !
@Justinus: But how do you split audio ? My version of CCE (2.5) f... up audio. Either there is no audio stream or it´s screwed up.

As I said before, my method is similar to wmansir. We use DVD2AVI to get d2v, right. Then, use BeSweet to get wav. Then use AviSynth to AudioDub them together to get avs. Then use VFAPI to get pseudo avi. So, now CCE will threat the pseudo avi as a normal avi (containing video & audio). What you have to do is to choose a range of frames you want to encode. Click at the Setting button and a new window will pop up. Right click at the avi you're going to encode and choose Edit. Then you can edit the range of frames you want to encode. I use this method with CCE 2.64. This version has SVCD and VCD options which makes your life easier (auto-detect with the resolution of your movie). It'll mux at the same time as you encode and also write SVCD header :)

But I found that sometimes it produce nasty result (video at the last part while audio is the first part). So, I think that use Trim inside AviSynth script maybe a better solution. You can also check the result in real time, too, using Media Player.

[Abond]

Anyway, if you decide for encode&split...
I should have mentioned that I tried to split the complete MI2 movie in two parts using TMPEGEnc with no success. TMPEGEnc failed because it didn´t show a picture in the "select range" window. Neither when I open up the movie as MPEG2 PS (VBR), nor when opening as SVCD (VBR). I only see a black window and it crashes when I move the slider.
Sorry to read that. It might be the resolution (CVD) or audio. BTW, how did you make the audio?
On bbMPEG: I don´t have a clue how to use bbMPEG for cutting. It´s been ages ago that I used bbMPEG for encoding. Is there a GUI that handles splitting ? Sorry to ask such newbie questions.
I don't have a clue either:p . BBMPEG cuts while muxing. There is a guide at doom9.org;) -> VCD/SVCD Guides->DVD2AVI->CCE Guide->Remux&split.
Well, for me VCDEasy worked very good so far.

[frank]

Use DVD2AVI to split and save the project parts with extracted audio (ac3 or wav)!!! No need for a cutter.
Use Avisynth with mpeg2dec.dll to resize and frameserve the video into CCE/TMPGEnc.
-BeSweet for audio encoding.
-bbMPEG for muxing (or mpx in TSCV)
-TSCV 0.84 for authoring and burning (includes VCDImager, CDRAO)

[Justinus]

DVD2AVI is very handy! You can use this software in many ways. However, when I use it to create d2v project with Final Fantasy, it says the audio is just 32kHz with 2/0 channels. This was confusing me so I checked the audio stream right in the middle of the movie and it was 448kHz with 3/2 channels. So, I know that only the start-up clip (not the movie; the clip that has a woman statue comes) inserted before the real movie clip got the audio stream just 32kHz.

So, I've decided that DVD2AVI can't be trusted all the time and I don't use it to manipulate or handle any audio stream. That's why I use AviSynth to pseudo-multiplex and then trim the movie clip later.

[Darksoul71]

Hi there !

Thanks again to all who answered. I´ve been very busy the last days trying all the tools and methods you´ve mentioned. With DVD as medium of the future in mind I´ve choosen the following way instead of CVD:

1) Encoding from DV AVI/DVD source to Half D1 (using FitCD for resize and macroblock optimization) using CCE 3 pass.

2) Muxing the movie stream either with TMPEG (if audio is MP2) or DVDQuickbuilder (if audio is AC3).

3) Splitting to 700 MB chunks using a selfwritten tool.

4) Buring 700 MB chunks to 1-4 CDRs (depending on movielength & targeted quality).

As my source (beside DVD) are mostly PAL DV AVI captured using a ADVC100, I can easily keep audio 48 kHz and resize to Half D1 very easy. By encoding the complete movie and just splitting binary I avoid all problems I´ve experience (including async audio).

My tool can easily join those splitted movies (much like copy C:\1.mpg+C:\2.mpg /B C:\OUT.mpg). So it just takes a few minutes to join those movies from CDR and play back the complete MPEG movie via my Hollywood+ in great quality.

If DVD-R burner drop in prices I can easily use those files as source for authoring. For me CVD/SVCD are still great for archiving documentations but for a movie I don´t want to switch CD for a couple of times.

Thank you all for taking the time to help me and all your suggestions,
D$

[Kb_cruncher]

bbmpeg is definatly the best way to mux and split vcd,svcd(not dvd).takes a bit of getting used to,but once you figure out how to use it you'll wonder why you never used it b4.it slits and muxes perfectly every time.also if you do xsvcd at higher bitrates just use the dvd profile to mux it.i don't have time to give descrition of its usage now but if you have problems i will post a little howto.