trouble with R1 Amelie

[brett]

I'm doing everything the same way I normally do. After I make a DVD2AVI project (forced film), I can load up my AviSynth script in VirtualDub and see that it's 175,284 frames = 2:01:51.

Then I go to get the chapters out of the VOB's for CCE, and it has a different story. Chapter-X-tractor tells me the last chapter (start of credits) is at frame 180,078, which is beyond the end of the movie. I can easily go into VirtualDub and see that the credits start at frame 169,123, but to get that from Chapter-X-tractor, I have to set the FPS Rate to 22.518, which doesn't seem like a good solution.

Also, if I go play the DVD in PowerDVD, the movie is 2:09:27. That really doesn't make sense to me, because the audio file is the perfect length for a 2:01:51 movie.

If I go back and create a new DVD2AVI project without Forced Film, I still get a 2:01:51 movie. This all obviously has something to do with a PAL conversion, since the runtime of the USA version is 2 hours 02 min, and the runtime of the France version is 2 hours 09 minutes.

Is this a common thing when ripping the NTSC version of a PAL movie? Is there a guide I should be looking at?

[auenf]

yes it is common for PAL versions to be 4% longer than the NTSC version.

Enf...

[brett]

Yes, I understand that... 25/24 = 1.04 = 4% longer... but that doesn't really explain the chapter points being 6% longer.

Again, Chapter 17 is the movie credits, which start at frame 169,128, but Chapter-X-Tractor is giving me a position of 180,078 for Chapter 17 which is beyond the end of the movie.

Is this something anybody else has seen?

[brett]

Here's the raw data... Remember this is the R1 version and it's 23.976 FPS with a running time of 2:01:51, but the IFO file shows the chapter points of the PAL version!


Opening IFO file E:\AMELIE\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO OK.

Video:
Compression : MPEG-2
TV system : NTSC 525/60 Hz
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Display Mode: letterboxed
Source Res : 720x480
Letterboxed : no
Mode : Camera

Audio:
0. Francais (AC3 6ch, 0xBD 0x80)
1. English (AC3 2ch, 0xBD 0x81)
2. Francais (AC3 2ch, 0xBD 0x82)

SubPicture:
0. English (0xBD 0x20)
1. Espanol (0xBD 0x21)
2. English (0xBD 0x22)

Program Chain(s):
Using PGC #0. Length: 02:09:27:73 in 20 cell(s).
000. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 01 - Len: 00:09:04:36 - TS: 00:00:00:00
001. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 02 - Len: 00:05:09:86 - TS: 00:09:04:36
002. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 03 - Len: 00:07:15:33 - TS: 00:14:14:23
003. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 04 - Len: 00:09:09:30 - TS: 00:21:29:56
004. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 05 - Len: 00:08:18:16 - TS: 00:30:38:86
005. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 06 - Len: 00:08:35:33 - TS: 00:38:57:03
006. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 07 - Len: 00:17:28:16 - TS: 00:47:32:36
007. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 08 - Len: 00:07:43:66 - TS: 01:05:00:53
008. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 09 - Len: 00:06:17:86 - TS: 01:12:44:19
009. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 10 - Len: 00:01:31:00 - TS: 01:19:02:06
010. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 11 - Len: 00:01:58:16 - TS: 01:20:33:06
011. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 12 - Len: 00:02:28:50 - TS: 01:22:31:23
012. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 13 - Len: 00:08:07:96 - TS: 01:24:59:73
013. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 14 - Len: 00:07:05:70 - TS: 01:33:07:69
014. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 15 - Len: 00:06:24:30 - TS: 01:40:13:39
015. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 16 - Len: 00:06:11:33 - TS: 01:46:37:69
016. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 17 - Len: 00:06:28:03 - TS: 01:52:49:03
017. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 18 - Len: 00:05:53:66 - TS: 01:59:17:06
018. VOB-ID: 01/CELL-ID: 19 - Len: 00:04:16:50 - TS: 02:05:10:73
019. VOB-ID: 02/CELL-ID: 01 - Len: 00:00:00:50 - TS: 02:09:27:23

Cells links :
000 -> 001 -> 002 -> 003 -> 004 -> 005 -> 006 -> 007 -> 008 -> 009 ->
012 -> 013 -> 014 -> 015 -> 016 -> 017 -> 018 -> 019

Total film length : 02:09:27:73

Chapter 1 = 00:00:00:00
Chapter 2 = 00:09:04:36
Chapter 3 = 00:14:14:23
Chapter 4 = 00:21:29:56
Chapter 5 = 00:30:38:86
Chapter 6 = 00:38:57:03
Chapter 7 = 00:47:32:36
Chapter 8 = 01:05:00:53
Chapter 9 = 01:12:44:19
Chapter 10 = 01:19:02:06
Chapter 11 = 01:24:59:73
Chapter 12 = 01:33:07:69
Chapter 13 = 01:40:13:39
Chapter 14 = 01:46:37:69
Chapter 15 = 01:52:49:03
Chapter 16 = 01:59:17:06
Chapter 17 = 02:05:10:73
Chapter 18 = 02:09:27:23
Warning ! Last chapter length is less than 5 s and has been disabled.

[brett]

So, DVD2AVI says the movie is 23.976 FPS FILM. The AVS file that I can look at in Media Player or Virtual Dub is 2:01:50.81 = 121.846 min = 175,284 frames.

PowerDVD, my Sony standalone, and Chapter-X-tractor show the movie as being 2:09:27.73 = 129.462 min, and the movie actually takes 129 min to play, which implies it is playing at 22.566 FPS. If you set the framerate to 22.566, the length of the film will match the listed 2:09:27.73, but not one of the chapters will line up.

It seems like it's not even just a framerate/conversion issue, either, because no amount of changing offsets/framerates will get the chapters working. For example, setting FPS Rate: 22.328 and Offset: 1421 in Chapter-X-tractor will get chapters 3 and 17 to line up, but none of the other chapters are in the right place. If you don't adjust the offset, you can't even get more than one chapter lined up. It doesn't seem like this could be just a "drop frame" problem or an NTSC/PAL conversion issue.

[AlainDelon]

This also explains why i have been having a hell of a time trying to sync the subtitles on this:http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33633

[AlainDelon]

Ok,i just finished reauthoring Amelie and the .ac3 file demuxed with VobEdit is 2.01.43.10 long and after a 3 pass CCE my completed 3.85GB .m2v is 2.01.43.13 in Maestro.This is what i had to do:In chapterextractor the ifo shows 2.09.27.73 so i adjusted by -465s but i still had to tweak the exact chapterpoints manually in Maestro.Then i made a .srt with subrip but that was 7.75s to long(i can't explain why)so i timestretched it by -7.75s and converted to a .stl file with sub2stl.exe and imported in Maestro(my Maestro will not accept .son files).I compiled(movie only) and got a 4.22GB movie that looks awesome with perfectly synched sound and subs(many rapidfire)and is in every respect as the original EXEPT it now clocks in at 2hrs. 1min. and 43sec. while the original dvd is 2h9m28s.I can't tell that any speedup has ocurred although it must have.Since this is a ntsc dvd i don't understand what happened.If you divide the original 7768sec. by the result 7303sec. you get 1.0637=6.37% shorter!

[brett]

Thanks for the confirmation there... It's good to know I'm not completely insane.

I figured I'd have to manually do the chapter points, and I thought that meant that the subs would never be in sync, but if you say matching the length fixes them that's good news.

Before I spend a half hour picking through the movie and adjusting stuff, you wouldn't happen to have your adjusted .CHP file still lying around, would you?

[AlainDelon]

Sorry,i delete everything when i have a complete dvd burned but it's easy to adjust chapterpoints in Maestro-just doubleclick the chaptermarkers and adjust.In fact,many times i just go through the movie and write in two columns: 1.05.13train station,1.12.28 cigarette counter etc.and make my own chapterlist and usually end up putting some extra chapters in for my personal enjoyment(little Amelie pulls antenna cable).

[brett]

I finally got around to finishing ripping R1 Amelie, and I figured out what the big problem was. I was looking at the chapter points, and noticed that all the chapters are about 7 minutes long, except chapter 7 is about 18 minutes long. Well, when playing the movie, chapter 7 isn't actually 18 minutes. The DVD is just made wrong, and there is a 7 min 36 sec jump in the middle of chapter 7, which throws off all the chapter points from there on. To fix it you just encode in CCE without bothering with chapters, then make two Maestro .CHP files with ChapterXtractor, one with no offset, and one with a -456000 ms offset. Then splice the two together, taking the regular chapter times from chapters 1-7, and the offset chapter points for 8-17. When you author in Maestro, you have to adjust the chapter points a couple seconds to get them at the right GOP, but then everything comes out perfect.