Post OggDS (OGM) bugs and feedback here

[BlackSun]

Tobias asked me to do that so I am doing a todo list and a bug reports for the OGM filters.

Also we want to have your feedback to motivate Tobias :)

[ookzDVD]

Somehow the 6 channel played with no sound on my machine with Audigy.
but the 0991 works with 6 channel only wrong channel mapping.

@BRMSlash,
Sure the Winamp can play the 6 channel vorbis with correct channel mapping with latest Peter's in_vorbis 1.2.4 after I change the
default multichannel setting to "remap 6 channels".

The problem is when I muxed the 5.1 vorbis with the AVI movie,
somehow it will be no sound.
I have to cheat it with the Trombettworks's DS filter to hear the
sound. :(

[BRMSlash]

This sort of occurs with me but only with the Rear channels and the Centre speaker. A bit more detail to add though. Only the Front Left and Right Speakers output their correct channels. The rears do output but only the Audigy virtual surround channels, not the proper Rear Left and Right. There is no output from centre channel at all. Haven't check the LFE though.

If you play the 6 channel ogg in Winamp 2.81 with in_vorbis v1.2.4 obtained from http://www.blorp.com/~peter/zips/?M=D and go into the plug-in properties page and select the Multichannel tab then change the settings to remap 6 channels and change source order to FL, C, FR, BL, BR, LFE the 6 channels work perfectly.

I am extremely happy that I can now play 6 channel oggs properly, at least in Winamp. All we need now is for it to work in the DS filter so we can have 5.1 sound with video.

Keep up the good work Tobias.

[tiki4]

O.K.,

apart from the 6 channel mapping that keeps me busy for a long while now I've encountered a few other problems. For the 6 channel mapping problem there seems to be a work around using the ChannelDownmixer.ax from www.trombettworks.com (http://www.trombettworks.com).

I encountered a few other problems. Using BeSweet 1.4RC8 the POSTGAIN seems not to work. It crashed the WMP 6.4. Rehuffed files play but without producing sound.

Another problem still seems to be the large file bug. Whether the problem lies in the file size or just in the length of the AVI stream I don't know.

Regards,

tiki4

[Bluedan]

Well, I think it's a known bug, but one of the most annoying things with the OggDS is that they still don't work frame accurate in some way. (I know it's due to M$ complicated DS system...)

1. Cutting OGMs without loosing data is a pain.
2. Jumping to a certain frame when watching needs some kind of workaround from the player (I think Blight mentioned that about some ZoomPlayer release)

As this is ment as some kind of TODO list, I just wanted to mention it.
5.1 channel implementation is a special case to me, not really one of the first aims to fix. But that's certainly personal.

I'd love to get OGM on the throne...

[magic-missle]

OggDS is very good, but i had this problem when combining an ogm with 2 ogg vorbis files that have diffrent channels.

Like when i try to mux a 2 channel ogg and 6 channel ogg into an ogm file.
If i mux the 2ch ogg first and then the 6ch ogg and play the ogm file and select the 6ch ogg, then the sound will play accelerated.
While if i mux the 6ch ogg first and then the 2ch ogg it will play the audio slowmotion.

Other then that oggds works fine for me.

[canadian_fbi]

i've been meaning to test this again myself with the new filters, but muxing an ac3 stream in combination with an ogg stream still causes problems in wmp 6.4 (and to my knowledge, all players except zoomplayer), doesn't it? my apologies if this has been corrected, but this would be a nice feature to have for 2-cd rips where you wanted the original ac3 but also the director's commentary at a very small bitrate.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by tiki4
Using BeSweet 1.4RC8 the POSTGAIN seems not to work. It crashed the WMP 6.4. This is a BeSweet bug, not OggDS' :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33662&perpage=5&pagenumber=4

[Taranli Maren]

Feature request:
I would very much like to see a tab in the splitter filter properties that lists all the custom tags used. or maybe the clip, author, copyright, description, and rating lines in wmp's properties dialog linked to certain tags.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by canadian_fbi
i've been meaning to test this again myself with the new filters, but muxing an ac3 stream in combination with an ogg stream still causes problems in wmp 6.4 (and to my knowledge, all players except zoomplayer), doesn't it?

Hrm..I've never used WiMP for anything but ZP, BSPlayer and CorePlayer(Alpha) seem to play the AC3/OGM files fine on my 3 systems. I think I've used both GraphEdit and OggMux without any problems in the past though I haven't tested this with OggDS 0.9.9.3 yet.

[inoteb]

Originally posted by MaTTeR


Hrm..I've never used WiMP for anything but ZP, BSPlayer and CorePlayer(Alpha) seem to play the AC3/OGM files fine on my 3 systems. I think I've used both GraphEdit and OggMux without any problems in the past though I haven't tested this with OggDS 0.9.9.3 yet.

Hi MaTTeR,

It seems there's a little misunderstanding : you're right saying that AC3 in OGM works fine (even in WMP) but I think canadian_fbi was talking about AC3+Ogg in OGM (AC3+Video muxed first in Nandub then muxed with Ogg ni OggMux), which clearly still causes problem (except with ZoomPlayer indeed, and maybe with TCMP sometime in the near future... I hope ;) )

Regards,
inoteb ;-]

[MaTTeR]

Oops..sorry if I misunderstood. Maybe I still am but do you mean put an AC3 + Vorbis(audio) into an Ogg container? Maybe that's where I got confused. Can't say that I've tried using more than 1 audio stream yet though.

Also, I don't understand all the posts about wrong channel mapping with Vorbis 5.1. It has worked flawlessly for me since the last version on a Zoltrix Nightingale and a TB Santa Cruz card. Try a non-SoundBlaster card if you have one around and it should work fine. IMHO Creative's drivers are usually garbage to put it nicely.

[canadian_fbi]

Originally posted by MaTTeR
Oops..sorry if I misunderstood. Maybe I still am but do you mean put an AC3 + Vorbis(audio) into an Ogg container? Maybe that's where I got confused. Can't say that I've tried using more than 1 audio stream yet though.
right, i mean having an ogg (ogm) container containing xvid video, an ac3 audio stream and an ogg vorbis audio stream. sorry for the confusion.

[BlackSun]

That's all ?

[easyfab]

Hi all,
Firstly thanks Tobias for your great work. I use ogg container more and more everyday.
Now, for the suggestions and ideas:
- Native ac3 support, i don't know if it's a ogg filter prob or if we need a new ac3 input filter (ac3 parser compatible with ogg filter)but it would be nice to have it.
-files proprieties : an option that shows all the proprieties (codec, bitrate...) i know that ffdshow can do it but it would be cool to have it in the container itself.
-fourcc changer that allow to view and change the fourcc (i have a lot of old xvid ogm with divx fourcc and i'm to lazzy to remux)
-an option for audio delay for those who forget to do that when muxing.
-support for variable bitrate. I think this is more a prob for encoding that for decoding.

But the first request is to have a native support in encoding tool like VB (is it planned?)

I hope all my suggestions are no too stupid
:)
And good work tobias
Easyfab

[Koepi]

Originally posted by easyfab
-fourcc changer that allow to view and change the fourcc (i have a lot of old xvid ogm with divx fourcc and i'm to lazzy to remux)


There's a FourCC mapper built in into the OggSplitter - access the property page and enter "DIVX -> XVID" and you're done.


-an option for audio delay for those who forget to do that when muxing.


This is a matter for OggMux unfortunately, and we're having big troubles implementing this. Maybe putting this into OggMuxer DSF isn't a bad idea, playing around with granulepos could suffice.


-support for variable bitrate. I think this is more a prob for encoding that for decoding.


Erm, vorbis IS vbr by default. Dunno where your CBR idea of ogg/vorbis comes from?

Regards,
Koepi

[easyfab]

Thanks for answering Koepi.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-support for variable bitrate. I think this is more a prob for encoding that for decoding.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry it's not variable bitrate but variable framerate I meam
Is the fourcc mapping a new option or what? I never pay attention about it sorry for that

[Peters]

Originally posted by easyfab

Is the fourcc mapping a new option or what? I never pay attention about it sorry for that

It's a pretty old option now... :D

[c_nul]

Hello.
I notice that OggDS can't handle chained ogg bitstreams whereas it is by definition valid ogg vorbis stream.

For example, with the command line :
".....\copy /b nomfichier1.ogg+nomfichier2.ogg .....\fichierfinal.ogg"

So Divx Players (wmp 6.4, bsplayer, etc) can't read this file

Winamp, Besweet with lst ( thanks kurtnoise ;) ) or oggdropxp and anothers support chained ogg bitstreams.

[Alestrix]

A well known problem (and might be the same reason as the 2ch-6ch-switching-speedup):
When having a 48kHz and a 24kHz vorbis in an ogg-media file (I like to have the dubbed audio in VERY low bitrate as a second audio stream and 24kHz achieves just that...), playback is speeded (sp?) up by a factor of two when switching to the 24kHz stream. When checking the vorbis-properties on playback the stream is recogniced as 48kHz. Playing the 24kHz vorbis-ogg in WMP before muxing, it sounds fine.

- aL

[The Belgain]

Is the bug of getting bad frames when muxing DivX 5.0x with B-frames into ogm gone? Or are all of you ogm people using XviD?

That bug is the main reason I'm still using avi.

[mtrooper]

Originally posted by The Belgain
Is the bug of getting bad frames when muxing DivX 5.0x with B-frames into ogm gone? Or are all of you ogm people using XviD?

That bug is the main reason I'm still using avi.
Still there (it's supposed to be Divx5 decoder bug), altough I'd swear that I "broken" frame is gone...but maybe I just didin't watch carefully enough :)
Anyway, ffdshow fixes (link is floting somewhere in this forum...)

[MaTTeR]

If ffdshow fixes the "frozen frame" issue then how can this be a problem with OggDS? After months of this problem reported all over the boards, I've yet to hear anything from Divx Networks:confused:

[Didée]

Just some moments of gathering together:

Originally posted by magic-missle
Like when i try to mux a 2 channel ogg and 6 channel ogg into an ogm file.
If i mux the 2ch ogg first and then the 6ch ogg and play the ogm file and select the 6ch ogg, then the sound will play accelerated.
While if i mux the 6ch ogg first and then the 2ch ogg it will play the audio slowmotion.
Originally posted by Mentar
I have two ogg streams, one is 2 channels, the other 6. When i mux them into an ogm file i have problems with playback. When the 2 channel ogg is inserted first and 6channel ogg second the second ogg stream plays in slowmotion.
If i put the 6 channel ogg as first it will play the 2 channel ogg in fast motion. [...] as soon as i add the other ogg stream the audio playback is screwed.
Originally posted by Palikrovol
I had a simillar problem when i muxed a Mono ogg (1 channel) and an stereo ogg (2 channels) in the same ogm.

...

and so further and so on ...

And I can tell the same stories:

As soon as two Vorbis audio streams with not exactly same format (samplerate, channel-numbers, mono/stereo..) are put into an OGG container, one of both streams fails to play back correctly!

This, I would definetly call a BUG, that´s not a feature anymore.

Or did me stupid user miss here something? If so, could someone please share his wisdom?

[magic-missle]

I'm just wondering if this is a bug in oggds or in Windows.
Has anyone tried this in mplayer in Linux?

[Alestrix]

Originally posted by Didée
...
This, I would definetly call a BUG, that´s not a feature anymore.

Or did me stupid user miss here something? If so, could someone please share his wisdom? [/B]
Didée, you're right that this IS a bug, but pleeeeease don't forget that we're not talking about $250 Micro$oft-ware, but FREE software, programmed during people's spare time. Without the filter at hand there would be no .ogm in windows and we wouldn't have much to burn onto our XCDs...

So please, next time you summarize a bug report, be somewhat more ...hm... "neutral".

And not to go too far OT here, I think this bug doesn't sound like a too hard one to fix (not that I know anything about DSF-programming, though...)

My two €-cents,
Alestrix

[Didée]

Alestrix,

yeah, I know that my tone sometimes sounds a little harsh where it isn´t intended to be.

I just wanted to point out that there seems to be a real problem, and to ensure that it is reckognized.

I love OGG, and use it all day for everything.

But this one thing is indeed annoying me a little:

- One of the main purposes and advantages is the possibility to put *many* strems into one container, isn´t it?
- It seems like it doesn´t work at all for multiple audio streams (unless you´re very lucky)
- A lot of reports about this problem.

-- And no single 'official' statement from the (great) developpers: "Guys, indeed there IS a problem. We will have to fix that! Wait a little"

As the situation is by now, I feel somewhat unsure, if I ever will be able to put more than one audio stream into an OGG file.
I´m not even 100% sure that this bug IS a bug, rather than me doing something wrong, or my system(s) being screwed somehow.

If someone who is in close contact to the development could give a definitive statement, it would be quite helpful.
Knowing something for sure is much better than fishing in the mud!

Again, no flaming was intended here or above.

I never would.

Didée

[Pendra]

Originally posted by MaTTeR
If ffdshow fixes the "frozen frame" issue then how can this be a problem with OggDS? After months of this problem reported all over the boards, I've yet to hear anything from Divx Networks:confused:

Just a silly situation:
at the begging with filter 9.9.1 i was thinking on oggfilter mistake, then looking around in the forum i tried ffdshow and everithing was ok.
Somenthing strange happen upgrading by hand 9.9.1 filter with the
oggvorbis-dlls1.0_IC6.zip: no more problem with divx decoding and ogg.
Last week i tried version 9.9.3 and today 9.9.4 but the old problem return.
I try to reinstall oggvorbis-dlls1.0_IC6.zip but the problem remain, so i have to use ffdshow.
I really do not understand where is the problem:
-Divx filter ? (i try all the configuration)
-OggFilter ?
-Resolution of the encoded video ? (I have a Marvel G400 but i installed DivXG400 for the multiple of 32pixel problem)

Who can point out the situation and ask to DivX? may be doom9?

I really whold like to use ogg!!!!!

[BRMSlash]

I can't seek in ogm's when playing back in WMP9 on WinXp Pro SP-1. It works fine with WMP6.4. This is using OggDS0994. I think it worked fine with 0993, but not sure because I can't install the older version because the old files can't be changed for some reason even after uninstalling. Guess I need to reboot.

[Defiler]

The copy of 0.9.9.5 on the website seems to be broken. I've had four other people verify that it complains "This program cannot be run in DOS mode." when you try to run the installer.
Has anyone been able to download it properly?

[Defiler]

Fixed. That was fast. :)

[kxy]

Not sure this has to do with zplayer or new oggds 0.9.9.5 filter by tobias, or both. But ogm with dual audio stream is no longer supported with new version of zplayer. What I mean is, ctrl+a short cut key to switch audio no longer works. Also go to frame also doesn't work correctly. It tends to go to the end of the file instead of the frame I wanted... For example, if I want to go to frame 3, It goes to the 17sec of the movie, I choose frame 4, it also stops at the 17 sec. So it seems it is searching to key frame. Therefore I unchecked search key frame, this time it jumps in terms of seconds not frames.

Also I believe someone else reported somewhere, the ogm sometimes freezes when you go back or forward a little bit. This occur when either searching to key frame is checked or unchecked.

[AmiRage]

I'm experiencing too severe problems after upgrading to OggDS 0.9.9.5. (and SubTitDS 1.4.0.0).

My freshly muxed (OGMuxer/OggMux) OGMs (no older for testing purposes available ATM) with two audio streams, two subtitles and chapters are no longer playable for example in WMP 6.4 etc.

Update:
I just muxed one video stream, one audio stream, two subtitles and chapters and this one doesn't work too. :confused:

Muxing only one video and one audio stream still works.
Muxing one video, one audio stream and chapters also works.

... but muxing one video, one audio stream, one subtitle and chapters fails.

Update 2:
... the problem is getting weird: Muxing one video stream and two audio streams works as expected.

[kxy]

I got a reply from Blight, maybe Tobias can work with the frame issue...

kxy:
There were several bugs I had to work around in the previous OGG decoder, so it's possible that this new decoder while fixing those issues broke the ZP support, I'll have to take a look.

As for going to frame, if the OGG decoder doesn't report a frame rate, then ZP assumes the frame rate to be "1" as not to make it crash. You can double check this by pressing "I" to open the information dialog to see which frame rate is reported by the decoder

[Manao]

@Didée : OggDS never supported the muxing of two sound tracks with different sampling rates or differents channel numbers. Some times ago, Tobias said it would be hard to implement ( he was speaking of two different sampling rates ).

[Alestrix]

@Manao:
OggDS never supported the muxing of two sound tracks with different sampling rates
To me it seems the muxing is done correctly (both audio files are interlaced into the video stream according to their time-stamps), and when playing back the second stream at 1/2 speed (e.g. w/ BSPlayer), (almost) everything is fine - but this is not a real solution...

- aL

[Koepi]

Amirage:

Your subtitle file is broken. Open it with wordpad and look at the timestamps, they're most likely all 0:00:00:000.

Recreate them, take a look that they're correct, and then your OGM will play perfectly.

@all:
Please, do some research before posting something as OggDS bug here if it is possibly a bug with other programs. I could delete more than half of the posts here as they're no OggDS bugs :( Do Tobias the favor and save him from a heart attack! :)

Regards,
Koepi

[AmiRage]

Originally posted by Koepi
Your subtitle file is broken. Open it with wordpad and look at the timestamps, they're most likely all 0:00:00:000.

Recreate them, take a look that they're correct, and then your OGM will play perfectly.
My subtitles aren't broken, all timestamps are correct and they worked before and still work using 0.9.9.4/1.3.0.0.

Update: ... I have to admit ... after going back several times and testing several combinations now it worked for the first time!? I don't know why.

[Alestrix]

Originally posted by Koepi
@all:
Please, do some research before posting something as OggDS bug here if it is possibly a bug with other programs. I could delete more than half of the posts here as they're no OggDS bugs :( Do Tobias the favor and save him from a heart attack! :)
So IS the SpeedUp-Problem a bug or are a few of us doing something wrong? I'd be happy if I just did something the wrong way and simply have to tweak a few things instead of having Tobias work on a bugfix (and me having to wait for it :) )

Ciao,
Alestrix

[Manao]

So IS the SpeedUp-Problem a bug or are a few of us doing something wrong

The answer to both these questions is no. The fact that Ogg DS allows someone to mux two ogg worbis files with different sampling rates doesn't mean that it is implemented inside that filter. Hence, the effects of such a muxing are unexpectable. In our case, the playback speed is double. You are doing nothing wrong, except trying to do something not supported by the tool.

[Bluedan]

latest OgDSF 0995 and SubtitDSF 1400: I think it's the subtitle filter to blame. OGM files with subtitles won't start unless you advance a little bit with the slider in bsplayer. In addition the picture is squeezed vertically. Clicking on original resolution in context menue solves it. When disabling Ogg Subtitle parser and using instead internal machine, the movie starts right away in the correct AR.

With ZoomPlayer 2.90b1 I'm unfortunately unable to switch to the correct aspect ratio at all, no matter which resolution definition I choose (anamorphic or 16:9 should've helped here). Vice versa the OGM starts immediately.
Video is XVid, audio 2xogg -q0.300, playback with ffdshow (without: no difference), 2 Subtitle streams.

[Koepi]

So again we're dealing with your player's bugs and not with OggDS / SubDS bugs.

Thanks for the info.

Regards,
Koepi

[JohnMK]

B-frames anyone?

[Bluedan]

@Koepi:
I know that you are annoyed by a lot of things, but my comment was not written with total absence of mind.
The players I mentioned in my post are the only ones so far on my system to even play or open .ogm files since months, besides WMP 6.4.
WMP 8 reports error, does not open file
video lan shows process bar moving without picture, without sound.
MV2 player does show picture but does not advance.
Additionally, Zoomplayer and bsplayer have been adapted for ogm support in the past as you know, though meaning workarounds for previous versions.
If the DSF were perfect to go there'd be no special adaption needed for the players to playback OGMs, right?
So tell me it's only player related.

[meleth]

Also see this post for anothee bug.


http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35425

[-=Stan=-]

Dunno if its OggDS bug or what , but since i installed 0ggDS 0.9.9.5 my ogg and ogm files wont play automatically via the player .
I mean when you double click the file , it doesn't do a thing but when i open the file through Windows open with dialog box , it plays just fine .
Even when i try to associate an ogg file with any player , it does nothing .

For the time being i've gone back to 0.9.9.3 which does not cause the above error .

[Zenitram]

I need to have chapters exactly synchronized with a time in the video (DivX 5) (because of start of a thing…).
During the compression, Keyframe is not put where I would like for chapters…
For example of what I look for, MicroDVD 1.2 do it (with .AVI) : It synchronize his chapters with the Video before play, even without Keyframe
With OggDS (and all players I’ve tested WMP9, BSplayer, MediaPlayerClassic), I disable ‘Always search KeyFrame’ feature, but there is only sound which start at the good time, the video appears at the next Keyframe :(
It would be better for the filter to synchronize the video with the chapter, even if we must wait 1 second...
Bug or Feature, I don't know :)

Feature : maybe stupid idea, but chapter are written, so they have a language : it may be a feature to permit to have multi-language chapter option, because for example I have English, Spanish and French audios, English, Spanish and French subtitles, but I don’t know If I give Spanish or French chapters in my file :(

[AmiRage]

Originally posted by -=Stan=-
For the time being i've gone back to 0.9.9.3 which does not cause the above error .
Where can I still download this older version of OggDS.

I too have annoying problems when using OggDS 0.9.9.5. My WMP 6.4 under Windows XP (incl. SP1) closes itself "all the time" having 0.9.9.5 installed. For example when dropping an OGM into WMP while already another OGM is loaded or when sliding/searching inside the OGM or when viewing an OGM merged with OGMerger ... this all works with 0.9.9.4 but I'd like to try 0.9.9.3.

[stargazer]

Here is one more OGM playback problem: :)

Since I've installed OggDS 0.9.9.5, all my .ogm files (Divx502+ 1 ogg stream) playback is very choppy (I don't know if this is a good word, but it looks like a DJ playing with his vinyl LPs or like someone is choking it :)).
I've tried to install older versions over 0995 but the problem stays the same... All other divx files (with mp3 and ac3 streams) play just fine but all my OGM collection is unusable now. :mad:

I don't know if my problem is a OggDS bug, but, for me, it looks like one...

[MaTTeR]

stargazer,

Try using ffdshow instead of the buggy DivX 5.x filter. It might work but I have no direct experience with DivX 5.