virtualdub modification for ogm?

[alky]

there seem to be quite a lot of people working on muxers, splitters and stuff... is tehre a project or anyone working on something like nandub for ogm?

this would solve (if working :P) a lot of probles one could encounter when using ogm instead of avi and it would be all in one good tool...

?

alky

[Neo Neko]

There are some problems that Avery percieves on this issue. Otherwise he would do it himself. Though anyone else is free and more than welcome to try. On the other hand Avery has said in no uncertain terms that he want's MCF support as soon as the format is stabliized. Most of the video in OGG problems arrise because everyone thinks only of Tobias's implimentation. It was the first. But there are others now. The source is out there for those wo look and know how to use it.

[Pasqui]

You can give an attempt to Suiryc's mod :
VirtualDub&OGM (http://membres.lycos.fr/suiryc/vdub.html)

Pasqui

[Neo Neko]

He's up and relocated! http://cyrius.bunkus.org/

[Suiryc]

:)

I modified a little my sources since last time because I found some cases where VirtualDub would loop with no end :(
Now I wonder where was my mind while coding some parts of the modifications and also how the .exe didn't crash while testing it ;) ...

I will put the last version on the site soon.

[Triggerle]

Cyrius,

Just a quick note:

Since your VirtualDub OGM modification is based on the original VirtualDub sources you are violating the GPL by offering it under a different license. In particular, you may not remove (your Freeware statment) or add (your distribution conditions) restrictions.

The same may apply for your command line tools if they use code from VirtualDub.

VirtualDub's GPL: http://www.virtualdub.org/gpl

More info about the GPL: http://www.fsf.org/licenses/licenses.html

Please don't take offense at this note. I have no interest in causing you trouble...I'm just pointing out a potential problem.

(edit:) If Avery Lee has given you the rights to distribute the way you do then you can ignore everything I wrote above. The copyright holder can re-license his stuff anytime.

[Suiryc]

First I am not a lawyer and some of the terms in the licenses may remain difficult to understand (I mean understand all the cases that cover the terms), so maybe you can help me here :)

What do you mean by "another license"?

For the modification of VirtualDub I left all the copyrights (of course) in the source files, and I didn't add any on files I added in VirtualDub (first because not enough time, then because I didn't really know what to put inside regarding the situation, i.e. for trying not to violate the license in fact).
On the site and in the txt file I specified this is a modified version (and so not to send bugreports to Avery Lee because he surely won't be happy ;) ), and I gave the copyright and a link to virtualdub website so that people know what is VirtualDub, and what they can do with it (regarding distribution, modification, ...).

Well the "restrictions" (which are not to use this work/modifications for selling) apply on what I did (maybe I should be more precise on that) since I cannot do anything regarding the original code (VirtualDub).

To summarize, what I want is : users can do what they want with those programs (the tools) / modifications (VirtualDub) (but following the original license for what comes from VirtualDub), except use part of my work for selling (the "restrictions" I added).

So according to you what should I tell? (when the program use some parts of VirtualDub, or when the program is a modification of VirtualDub)

If anyone else have the answer please tell :)
Thanks.

PS : sorry for my bad english :(

[Sigmatador]

Good job Suiryc
here there is a hack of virtualdub including the audio menu of nandub
http://virtualdubmpg2.chez.tiscali.fr/
it could be useful (ogm often have 2 audio streams) but... THERE IS NO SOURCE :mad: (GPL Violation i think ?)

i hope for a subtitles menu :D

[Triggerle]

Disclaimer1: I am not an expert on the GPL (and not a lawyer) and would advise you to consult the links I have given in my previous post.

Disclaimer2: I have considered taking this into a private channel (for example email) but since there is no conflict between people involved I think the discussion can help educate other programmers in similar situations.

The GPL allows you to use the code in your project. It allows it only, however, if your project is also licensed under he GPL. Now the part that might be problematic with your project is that the GPL does not allow the kind of dual-licensing that you have in mind. Under the GPL you can't put your parts under one license and the original parts under the GPL unless they are completly separated. By statically linking GPLed code you are automatically required to place your derived work also under the GPL. This is made specifically to prevent people from ripping off the authors of the code (something you are clearly not doing, but others in the future might attempt).

Regarding the "other license" I mentioned: Your distribution restrictions (Freeware but may not be sold) actually constitute a license different from the GPL. The GPL does not restrict commercial use, which makes your restrictions not compliant with the GPL.

Based on my knowledge of the GPL what you need to do is:

1. Include a copy of the GPL on your web site
2. Place your application under the GPL
3. Remove your licensing (Freeware and commercial distribution clause)
4. Include the complete source (You already do this, I believe)

This whole license thing might seem complicated and puts some extra work on you, so I would understand if you are frustrated by having to deal with this. You should consider, however, that the GPL has been crafted very carefully by lawyers with the goal to eliminate any possibility of people ripping other people off their works while ensuring that users and developers can get the maximun freedom to use the application and code. Thanks to this careful crafting the GPL has been successful in promoting Free Software for many years now.

(edit) Here is a French version of the official GPL FAQ - I assume that French is your native language :)

http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.fr.html

[Koepi]

GNA, all these jerks just complaining about license, GPL and stuff, just because they once heard about a violation, and how much publicity it got. So now they try to fetch some publicity themselfes, so they can tap on their shoulders and say "_I_ discovered this BAD BAD violation of GPL! I'm so cool and so proud I destroyed the project!"

If the sources are free available i don't see a problem.

Period.

I'm going to strike everyone complaining if the sources of add-ons are free available, those people have nothing useful to add so they blow out this crap to fetch some readers.

STOP IT! Nobody wants this attitude of destruction. I for sure will stop developing tools if these braindead "but you're violating GPL because I'm too dumb to make up something constructive with my time".

I hate it.

Really.

VERY annoyed,
Koepi

[Doom9]

Since your VirtualDub OGM modification is based on the original VirtualDub sources you are violating the GPL by offering it under a different license.
We've had quote a number of these threads already, and they ALL degraded into flamewars. So, out of courtesy to the people who have to run around with fire extinguishers trying to calm down flamewars (that would be the moderation team) you should have contacted the author directly. Going public should ALWAYS be the last option. The court of public opinion is a very powerful one, however, you always take a considerably risk of ruining more than you could possibly gain.
So, before you publicly accuse anybody of GPL violations in my board try to resolve that issue in private! If I have a disagreement with another member I don't drag it out in public either, I try to resolve things on a pm/email basis which imho is the gentleman way of handling such issues.

[Suiryc]

I don't want to start a flamewar, really :(

Disclaimer2: I have considered taking this into a private channel (for example email) but since there is no conflict between people involved I think the discussion can help educate other programmers in similar situations.
I also think that this discussion could give other developpers some piece of information they may lack ...

Regarding the "other license" I mentioned: Your distribution restrictions (Freeware but may not be sold) actually constitute a license different from the GPL. The GPL does not restrict commercial use, which makes your restrictions not compliant with the GPL.
Well I carefully read everything on the page you gave the link.
And if I understood well, the "restrictions" I added are in fact ineffective if not "compatible" with GPL since final user only have to follow the GNU licence terms.
So I saw that people can redistribute (as is or modified) my work by making money BUT they have to give the source code if anybody ask.
In fact it seems the "not for selling" parts are of no use since the GPL will keep the source code available (I already know that, but you know it would be annoying for me to see other people just selling something that is free :().

So I will remove those useless restrictions.

Based on my knowledge of the GPL what you need to do is:

1. Include a copy of the GPL on your web site
2. Place your application under the GPL
3. Remove your licensing (Freeware and commercial distribution clause)
4. Include the complete source (You already do this, I believe)
Maybe you didn't downloaded my sources here.
2. It's done (the GPL text and all headers are in the source files)
3. As I said I will do that, since it's of no use
4. It's done
1. Well will do that too

I will also add the GPL text with the binaries (didn't know I had to do that).

Hope all that will be enough to stay close to what I wanted when starting developping those tools :)


PS : Here is where I am after having started developping my first real tools, wanting them allways free (thus the GPL), and having took some text (txt files that come with the tools) coming from other free tools ;)
Hope this could help other people in similar situations like mine :)

[Suiryc]

@Triggerle

I updated my site (and the downloadable compressed files) to reflect the changes.
I hope that now I am 100% compliant with GPL :)

Back to topic :

Originally posted by Sigmatador
Good job Suiryc
here there is a hack of virtualdub including the audio menu of nandub
http://virtualdubmpg2.chez.tiscali.fr/
it could be useful (ogm often have 2 audio streams) but... THERE IS NO SOURCE :mad: (GPL Violation i think ?)

i hope for a subtitles menu :D
The best would be to add "unlimited" multiple input sources (other audio or subtitles streams), but I have still work to do with my other tools, and VirtualDub is not that easy to understand and extend :(
The modifications I made till now seem to be "piece of cake" compared to what I just said above ;) (especially when it comes to synchronisation of the various inputs when writing).

BTW it seems another person is working on a "VirtualDub for OGM" version. This person contacted me at the very beginning to have a look on my sources (during the first 1-2 days of the site I hadn't released the sources yet).
AFAIK this person should be reliable and may produce a better version than mine ;)

[Suiryc]

Well it took me some time but you will now find on my site the latest modification of VirtualDub which can now process multiple audio streams.

So what's new :
- when the input file is an OGM file, this version process all the audio streams in this file (when asked, i.e. when "AVI audio" selected in the audio menu)
- you should be able to open other audio files as input (Ogg, AC3 or MP3) - those new inputs are only used when saving to an OGM file of course

See the ReadMe.txt file for more information.

Nb :
- for the moment you cannot specify your own comments (LANGUAGE, ...)
- only the first video stream and the audio streams are taken into account for an OGM file (i.e. subtitles are discarded if any)


Enjoy

[Suiryc]

I finally added comments supports.
So to sum up, here is what you can do with this version :
- open an OGM file
- save video and audio streams to an OGM file
- process video and audio stream (all audio streams when the input file is an OGM one)
- process extern audio files (.ogg, .ac3, .mp3) when saving to an OGM file
- use standard video options (compression, subsets, ...) on the video stream
- use your own comments (TITLE, LANGUAGE, ... : you can change the orignal ones if any or just add new ones) for each stream
- use the "Add operation to job list and defer processing"

For the comments I added some combo-box which will help you choose the most commonly used comment tags (TITLE, LANGUAGE, LWING_GAIN, ...), and a LANGUAGE value.

Enjoy :)

Forgot to mention that you can also import your chapter list (obtained using SmartRipper or chapterXtractor)

[The Link]

Just want to say thank you!! :)
For me the integration of OGM-Tools in VD was a reason to start using OGM!

Regards,

The Link

[MaTTeR]

Thanks for the new build Suiryc. Saving and defering process for later seem to be working great. I tried muxing a 44.1khz Vorbis file into an AVI and then saving it out as Ogg, the result was out of sync though. I muxed the same files with OggMux and it came out just fine. Just wanted to give you that report.

PS. Also, cutting a segment of an existing OGM file and saving it out also resulted in the audio being out of sync. Hope this helps.

[Suiryc]

Arrgh I hate synchronization :p

I will make some more tests then.
Is it a constant desynch (how many ms)?

How many channels, and what is the quality of your .ogg file ?

Thanks

[BlackSun]

woaw, strofun !
Well done dude !

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Suiryc
Arrgh I hate synchronization :p

I will make some more tests then.
Is it a constant desynch (how many ms)?

How many channels, and what is the quality of your .ogg file ?

Thanks

From the two tests I did, it appears to be a constant desync by about 200ms or so. The Vorbis file I added was 2ch at 44.1khz @ Q 2.5

I'll try a few more tests later on today when I return from work and then let you know the results. Thx

[alky]

thats great, and will bring ogm to a lot of new users! thankyou veeery much!

[inoteb]

Well, looks promising :cool:
I'm in a hurry to be at home to try that...
Have you planned to add chapter splitting support ? (when saving segments of an OGM)

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by inoteb
Have you planned to add chapter splitting support ? (when saving segments of an OGM)
I already thought about adding such support (when saving only a portion of the clip) for chapters. But there is one case that may be hard for me to take into account : when you delete parts of the clip.
Now I am also putting Subtitle support, and changing some things to see if I can solve this out of synch problem ...

[inoteb]

Originally posted by Suiryc

I already thought about adding such support (when saving only a portion of the clip) for chapters. But there is one case that may be hard for me to take into account : when you delete parts of the clip.


The essential would be the support for splitting a movie in 2 or 3 parts (without deleting parts) and automatic timing change for chapters. In fact only what is already implemented in your Muxer/Cutter ;)

Subtitle support ? nice :D

Dumb question : when you'll have put all OGM features in VirtualDub, will you continue to develop your tools (OGMuxer & Cutter) ?

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by inoteb
The essential would be the support for splitting a movie in 2 or 3 parts (without deleting parts) and automatic timing change for chapters. In fact only what is already implemented in your Muxer/Cutter ;)
That would be nice :)
But I'm not here yet ;) (and it's more difficult than in my tools :()

Subtitle support ? nice :D
At the beginning I decided not to implement this (especially because of the fact you can delete parts with VDub, which will give me extra-work to adjust the subtitles timings accordingly), but finally I put it ... (will see if I can easily do this extra-work ;))

Dumb question : when you'll have put all OGM features in VirtualDub, will you continue to develop your tools (OGMuxer & Cutter) ?
Yes (if bug fixes or new features are needed of course).
Because maybe I won't obtain same results (regarding out of synch problems, ...) with this VirtualDub than with OGMuxer/OGMCutter or OggMux.

[Suiryc]

I put the latest version on the site.
I fixed some internal "minor" bugs and added subtitle support (coming from the input OGM file, or from an extern .srt file). Seems to work when the start frame is not the first frame (but I don't think this will work when you delete some parts of the clip).

@MaTTeR
Can you try with this new version?
If there are still problems, could you use OGMInfo (with -v3 option) and send me the first 1000 lines of your input .ogg file, and also the first 1000 lines of your resulting .ogm file? Thanks.

[MaTTeR]

@Suiryc

I just tried the newest version from today and I'm happy to report the audio sync is fine when muxing. I muxed a 44.1kHz Vorbis into an AVI(XviD) and saved it out as an OGM. This particular AVI also had B-Frames.

Vdub does crash when I try to mux Vorbis into an existing OGM file created though. Same files as above only instead of the AVI file I had already converted it to OGM. Great work on the new build, things seem to work great.

I also encoded 5 full movies straight to the OGM container using defered processing and they all seem to to work just great when I tested them out this evening. Many thx!

[Ezzelin]

Now if only you could add Belgabor's Avisynth integration, we'd have the ultimate version of VDub...

[Rrrough]

combining the best AVS-editor (Belgabor's VDUB) with the best OGM-editor (Suiryc's VDUB&OGM)???

YES, PLEASE !

VOTE #2 !!!

cheers

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by Ezzelin
Now if only you could add Belgabor's Avisynth integration, we'd have the ultimate version of VDub...
Originally posted by Rrrough
combining the best AVS-editor (Belgabor's VDUB) with the best OGM-editor (Suiryc's VDUB&OGM)???

YES, PLEASE !

VOTE #2 !!!

cheers
Wishes granted and fulfilled ... What is next ? ;) :D

@MaTTeR
I fixed some other bugs. Maybe this time it will work when muxing an OGM file with another Ogg file ...
(PS : I tried it myself but didn't get any crash for the moment)


Hope I didn't forget anything in VirtualDubAVS ;)
I replaced VirtualDub icon by Spire's one (nothing against Avery Lee's one, but this other icon is also great :))

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Suiryc
@MaTTeR
I fixed some other bugs. Maybe this time it will work when muxing an OGM file with another Ogg file ...
(PS : I tried it myself but didn't get any crash for the moment)


Indeed your right, it seem to have worked just fine on a small clip I tested with. Man you work fast and it's great to hear the AVS mods are in place now too.

[ARDA]

Wishes granted and fulfilled ... What is next ?

JUST THANK YOU AND KEEP ON

Arda

[Rrrough]

THANX MAN, that was quick !

now we have THE video editor !
gonna test it right away !
Thanx so much !

:p cheers:p

[inoteb]

Great work Suiryc !
Looks like you will fulfil (almost) all our dreams... :D :D :D
THANX THANX THANX and keep going on ;)

[MaTTeR]

@Suirycm

I tried muxing a 448kbps AC3 with an existing OGM file just containing video. All seemed well until I tried to save it out and then it crashed immediately.

@inoteb
Have you had success with muxing AC3 in with the latest build?

Edit-
@Suirycm
I may have spoke to soon in an earlier post. I tried just cutting a segement out of a 988MB OGM which contained video only, when I clicked on the save button I got an instant Vdub crash. The video had no B-Frames, just standard XviD encode with Qpel.

[Aneurysm9]

I've had a similar problem as Matter. This is the first time I've tried this VDub version, trying to mux 320Kbps AC3 and a Vorbis track and it died as soon as I told Job Control to start processing.

[Kyo]

Thanks for this VERY GOOD piece of code!
keep the work Suiryc.

[inoteb]

Originally posted by MaTTeR

@inoteb
Have you had success with muxing AC3 in with the latest build?


Haven't tried yet. Will test that today or tomorrow and let you know...

[Suiryc]

@MaTTeR
Thanks I found where is this bug (hehe I never tested OGM file with only video ;), but before processing I try to access the audio stream ... which is NULL in this case and of course Windows is not very happy when you try to access 0x00000000 address :p ).

@Aneurysm9
Are you in the same case than MaTTeR (i.e. your input file is an OGM with only video) ?
If not, could you tell me if including your other files (AC3 & Ogg) seemed to work well (i.e. didn't stop before the end).

[inoteb]

I spent quite a lot of time testing the AC3 support of Suiryc's VirtualDubAVS&OGM (15.10.2002).
I systematically tested the final OGM files with TCMP4 alpha 29, ZoomPlayer 2.80 and WMP 6.4
I'm running under Win2k SP3 DX8.1b
Using OggDS 0.9.9.5 & SubTitDS 1.4.0.0

Here are the results :

First all all, what is working flawlessly :

# Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 + SRT + Chapters + infos (title, languages, etc.)

# Save as OGM an AVI+AC35.1 file muxed first in NanDub

And that's all... but it's better than nothing ! ;)

Now what is not working :

#1 Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 + 0ggVorbis (surround 0.400) + SRT + Chapters + infos
In all players Subtitles and chapters work fine but...
TCMP :
The 2 audio streams are superimposed and no way to select just one
InterVideo Audio Decoder display "AC3 5.1 ch."
ZP :
No image until I seek with navigation bar or jump to a chapter (???!)
The 2 audio streams are checked (no way to select just one)
Anyway, there's no sound at all ! (checking/unchecking "enable all streams" does nothing)
InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 2 ch."
WMP :
No sound / No image
Can't seek with navigation bar
InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch."

#2 Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 first (save as OGM). Then load this OGM file and add OggVorbis
TCMP / ZP / WMP : same results as test #1.

#3 Muxing AVI + OggVorbis first (save as OGM). Then load this OGM file and add AC3 5.1
TCMP :
same result as #1 except sound is screwed by interferences and weird effects
SP :
same as #1 except InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch."
WMP :
same as #1

#4 Muxing AVI + Waved AC3 5.1 (made with Ac3Wav 0.01)
TCMP / ZP / WMP : No sound (InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch.")

#5 Muxing an AVI+AC35.1 file (muxed first in NanDub) with OggVorbis
TCMP / ZP / WMP : same results as #1

I hope I forgot nothing... and that it will help ;)
Sorry for being so long and boring but be sure it took you less time to read than it took me to run the tests and report the results in english :p :D

Cya !
inoteb ;-]

[Suiryc]

Arrghh :scared:

Thanks for the tests ;)

Could you also test one or more of the cases that don't work using OggMux (i.e. make an AVI with AC3 or Waved AC3 first so that it works) or OGMuxer.
Because sometimes I don't know if it is my tools that do a bad work, or if it is a problem with OggDS. For example when I mux video + 2*Ogg (exactly the same file) with OggMux, OGMuxer or VirtualDub, I cannot play the resulting file :(

Thanks :)

PS : when you use the Waved AC3, do you load it using "WAV audio" or as new input using "Show inputs" ?

[Aneurysm9]

@Suiryc

I was trying to compress the video and mux the files, using XviD 2-pass through the Job Control. When I tried it again I got an error message about a missing DLL (silya.dll or something like that). It worked fine for the first pass when I didn't use JC. I'm running the second pass now, saving to OGM with AC3+Vorbis audio and SRT subs. I'll let you know how things worked out after my property midterm.

[Suiryc]

I fixed some bugs (OGM file with no audio stream ...), and made some changes.

I modified source code so that there shouldn't be too much out of synch problems (for subtitles) when one delete parts of the original clip.
And now "Audio data" field in status windows (while dubbing) take into account all the streams other than the video one. This means the "Projected file size" is more "accurate" (but not yet perfect ;)).

@Aneurysm9
I will test doing a two pass process (maybe the first pass give problems to my routines, since it doesn't really produce a valid output stream).
Anyway I think a workaround here would be to do the 1st pass as usual (i.e. "Save as AVI"), then add the other input streams and use "Save as OGM".

[Aneurysm9]

@Suiryc

Yup, that's how I have it running right now. I did the first pass with "Save as AVI" and the second with "Save as OGM" Hopefully it will work that way. Thanks for putting the Ogg tools into VDub, it'll make my life much easier!

[inoteb]

Originally posted by Suiryc
Could you also test one or more of the cases that don't work using OggMux (i.e. make an AVI with AC3 or Waved AC3 first so that it works) or OGMuxer.
I've done that (see 2nd test of what is OK and #5)... or I misunderstand what you mean ?

Because sometimes I don't know if it is my tools that do a bad work, or if it is a problem with OggDS.
I've been making sereval tests about AC3 in OGM (and especially AC3+OggVorbis in OGM) since a few months, and I really begin to think the problems with AC3(muxed with another audio stream) support is due to OggDS :( I'd love to hear what Tobias thinks of that...

PS : when you use the Waved AC3, do you load it using "WAV audio" or as new input using "Show inputs" ?
"Wav audio" of course. Anyway it's impossible to load a .wav file using "show imputs" (only .ogg .ac3 .mp3 .srt) :p ;)

regards,
inoteb ;-]

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by inoteb
I've done that (see 2nd test of what is OK and #5)... or I misunderstand what you mean ?
Well my english may not be as good as I thought ;)
I mean use the same sources but a different muxing method (i.e. OggMux, or OGMuxer ... but OggMux would be better since I use the same things in OGMuxer and this version of VirtualDub ;) ).
Your second test of what is OK represents what you could use as input for OggMux (since it doesn't handle AC3 file directly).
Doing so we could see if the problem comes from the muxing way I use, or to another thing (OggDS or DirectShow or Windows or anything else) : if you experience the same problems with the resulting OGM file by using OggMux and VirtualDub, then it does not come from VirtualDub :)

"Wav audio" of course. Anyway it's impossible to load a .wav file using "show imputs" (only .ogg .ac3 .mp3 .srt) :p ;)
Yes I understand :)
But you can rename the .wav to .ac3 and use it like that.
I wasn't sure but I was thinking that you used "Wav audio" since (in theory) you should have obtained same results opening a normal AC3 or a Waved AC3 in "Show inputs".


In the latest version I fixed some things that could have caused problems with "normal" audio stream (i.e. the one coming from an AVI file, or from a WAV file), mainly due to the fact that WAV structure is not good at all for handling VBR streams ;)
So now things should work better (except you will still experience out of synch problems if your audio stream is a VBR one) in those cases because I switched back to the original behaviour of VirtualDub.

[Aneurysm9]

Well, it appears that VDubOGM did everything it was supposed to. I got a working OGM with video, AC3, vorbis, and SRT. Just that damn pesky problem with the AC3 and vorbis tracks both being rendered (though my setup results in the AC3 going only to the S/PDIF out and the vorbis going to the analog outs so I can switch between the sources at the receiver). Hopefully Tobias will find a way to fix the AC3+Vorbis bug in the next OggDS version.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Aneurysm9
(though my setup results in the AC3 going only to the S/PDIF out and the vorbis going to the analog outs so I can switch between the sources at the receiver).

Is the Vorbis file 2 channels or multi-channel? I'm not so sure your have much luck sending multi-channel Vorbis over SPDIF if that's the intent.

[Aneurysm9]

No, I have 5.1 AC3 going out via S/PDIF and 2ch Vorbis on the analog outs. It is a shame though that there isn't a way to get multichannel Vorbis into AC3.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Aneurysm9
It is a shame though that there isn't a way to get multichannel Vorbis into AC3.

Well you could buy an nForce motherboard to do it in realtime :D Sorry, back on topic now.

[inoteb]

@ Suiryc


I already test OggMux with Waved-AC3 but it didn't work (at least for the moment). Take a look at my post of 12th October in this thread for the report:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35194&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Apart from that :

#1 AVI + AC3 5.1 muxed first in Nandub then saved as OGM in OggMux works flawlessly.

#2 AVI + AC3 5.1 muxed first in Nandub then muxed with OggVorbis (surround 0.400) in OggMux
- WMP : No sound
- TCMP : 2 audio streams superimposed (the 2 are checked & no way to select just one)
- ZP : If MorganStreamSwitcher is registered, the 2 audio streams are checked but I have no sound and InterVideo displays AC3 2ch.
If I unregister Morgan streamSwitcher, the 2 audio streams are checked but InterVideo displays AC3 5.1 ch. and thanx to a special code added by Blight only one stream is active and I can can switch from the AC3 track to the Ogg track in "Audio track" section.
This case is well known now, but IMO it's not a real solution, just a nice "trick" to be able today to mux AC3 with another audio stream in OGM container. But I'm afraid that as long as Tobias won't correct this AC3+Vorbis "bug" in OggDS filters we won't have a real solution. :(

Oooops, BTW I forgot to mention that if I unregister Morgan streamSwitcher, test #5 of my previous report (same as #2 of this post) works fine in ZoomPlayer (I can switch in "audio track" section). Same for test #1 of previous report (and I guess #2 and may be #3 would behave the same way, but I deleted them).

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by inoteb

I already test OggMux with Waved-AC3 but it didn't work (at least for the moment).

Same here, resulted in an immediate Vdub crash.

[Suiryc]

So if I understood everything :

With VirtualDub :
Originally posted by inoteb
First all all, what is working flawlessly :

# Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 + SRT + Chapters + infos (title, languages, etc.)
# Save as OGM an AVI+AC35.1 file muxed first in NanDub

Now what is not working :
#1 Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 + 0ggVorbis (surround 0.400) + SRT + Chapters + infos
In all players Subtitles and chapters work fine but...
TCMP :
The 2 audio streams are superimposed and no way to select just one
InterVideo Audio Decoder display "AC3 5.1 ch."
ZP :
No image until I seek with navigation bar or jump to a chapter (???!)
The 2 audio streams are checked (no way to select just one)
Anyway, there's no sound at all ! (checking/unchecking "enable all streams" does nothing)
InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 2 ch."
WMP :
No sound / No image
Can't seek with navigation bar
InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch."

#2 Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 first (save as OGM). Then load this OGM file and add OggVorbis
TCMP / ZP / WMP : same results as test #1.

#3 Muxing AVI + OggVorbis first (save as OGM). Then load this OGM file and add AC3 5.1
TCMP :
same result as #1 except sound is screwed by interferences and weird effects
SP :
same as #1 except InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch."
WMP :
same as #1

#4 Muxing AVI + Waved AC3 5.1 (made with Ac3Wav 0.01)
TCMP / ZP / WMP : No sound (InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch.")

#5 Muxing an AVI+AC35.1 file (muxed first in NanDub) with OggVorbis
TCMP / ZP / WMP : same results as #1


Then with OggMux :
#1 AVI + AC3 5.1 muxed first in Nandub then saved as OGM in OggMux works flawlessly.

#2 AVI + AC3 5.1 muxed first in Nandub then muxed with OggVorbis (surround 0.400) in OggMux
- WMP : No sound
- TCMP : 2 audio streams superimposed (the 2 are checked & no way to select just one)
- ZP : If MorganStreamSwitcher is registered, the 2 audio streams are checked but I have no sound and InterVideo displays AC3 2ch.
If I unregister Morgan streamSwitcher, the 2 audio streams are checked but InterVideo displays AC3 5.1 ch. and thanx to a special code added by Blight only one stream is active and I can can switch from the AC3 track to the Ogg track in "Audio track" section.

Oooops, BTW I forgot to mention that if I unregister Morgan streamSwitcher, test #5 of my previous report (same as #2 of this post) works fine in ZoomPlayer (I can switch in "audio track" section). Same for test #1 of previous report (and I guess #2 and may be #3 would behave the same way, but I deleted them).

And now I have a headache with all those information ;) but it seems that most of the problems you encountered in your first tests (with VirtualDub) was not all caused by VirtualDub, but by something else (OggDS, DirectShow, MorganStreamSwitcher, Windows or something else) ?


@MaTTeR
Same here, resulted in an immediate Vdub crash.
Inoteb was talking of the fact that presently we can mux Waved AC3 files with OggMux, but that the resulting OGM won't play.
Did you tried to load the OGM file in VirtualDub which made VirtualDub crash? Or did the crash happened when using a Waved AC3 in VirtualDub (and then using "WAV audio" or "Show inputs")?

[inoteb]

Originally posted by Suiryc

And now I have a headache with all those information ;)
Sorry for that... take an aspirin ;) :D

but it seems that most of the problems you encountered in your first tests (with VirtualDub) was not all caused by VirtualDub, but by something else (OggDS, DirectShow, MorganStreamSwitcher, Windows or something else) ?
I couldn't agree more. The files created with VirtualDub looks good (good size, audio streams detected by players even if no sound...) As I said previously, I'm almost convinced that AC3+Ogg issues are caused by OggDS filters / DirectShow. That's why I'm dying to hear him about that... but we can't blame him to prefer working on his filters than replying to all the questions asked about them... Nevertheless, a little word would be very appreciated (and maybe could spare us a lot of useless efforts) ;)

@MaTTeR
Inoteb was talking of the fact that presently we can mux Waved AC3 files with OggMux, but that the resulting OGM won't play.
Did you tried to load the OGM file in VirtualDub which made VirtualDub crash? Or did the crash happened when using a Waved AC3 in VirtualDub (and then using "WAV audio" or "Show inputs")?
When I muxed Avi video + Waved-AC3 in VirtualDub (Audio>Wav Audio) I got no crash. The files once again looked good (size OK, loading OK, InterVideo displays AC3 5.1 ch...) but no sound at playback (cf. #4 of my first report).

[Suiryc]

@inoteb

Don't know how behave Intervideo AC3 filter, but I use presently Valex's one.
And I noticed in a recent test (well 5 minutes ago :) ) that this filter use normalization by default. And in my test at the very beginning I could hear a pointed sound (well don't know if it is the correct translation of "son aigu") and then nothing more. And in the filter properties I could see that gain had been set to minimum (i.e. to disable the sound).

Maybe Intervideo behave the same and that's why you don't have sound in some of your tests ...

[Suiryc]

There is a new version on the site.
I changed some things and may have introduced more bugs than solved :( (so I let the previous version)

Here are the few changes I made :
- fixed a bug crashing VirtualDub when using an OGM file with no audio stream as input in Job List
- fixed a bug causing Error in Job List when using an extern Ogg file as input
- fixed a bug preventing you from using audio comments when using a video only input and a "WAV audio" as audio
- fixe some other bugs
- main audio stream (i.e. first one) of an OGM input file moved from "Audio" menu to "Show inputs"
(this allow to use a WAV file as main first audio stream in the output OGM file)
- now you can discard any of the input streams (including stream of the input file) in "Show inputs"
- you can change the order in which input streams (in "Show inputs") will be muxed in the OGM
- you can apply offset (in ms) for each of the input streams (may not work properly, so use with care)
- chapters are internally modified (depending on the parts of the video you discarded or not) before dubbing
(internally means the chapters you eventually entered are copied and modified for dubbing, but the
original ones remain for further use)


Now time to sleep :)

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Suiryc
@MaTTeR
Or did the crash happened when using a Waved AC3 in VirtualDub (and then using "WAV audio" or "Show inputs")?
Sorry, I should have made myself clear before. Yes, the crash occurred when I tried the "show inputs" dialog to add an AC3-WAV, it was added just fine but crashes immediately when I go to save the file out as OGM. The video file I was trying to add the AC3-WAV to was already an OGM file as well.

[Aneurysm9]

I know this probably won't be high on your priority list as you're still working to develop the feature set and work out its bugs, or if it can even be done, but it would be nice if the "Save Processing Settings..." function would save the video comments and input streams/comments. I had my computer crash (for an unrelated reason) while encoding Fight Club and it's a real pain to type in 36 chapter names for a second time, not to mention the info for the four commentary tracks.

[inoteb]

Originally posted by Suiryc
@inoteb
Maybe Intervideo behave the same and that's why you don't have sound in some of your tests ...

Well, I don't know... but I doubt about that because, in fact, in most of my tests I have sound one way or another. Almost every time with TCMP (even if superimposed, I do have sound), and often with ZoomPlayer (when I unregister Morgan Stream Switcher).

NB - Pour un son aigu, je crois qu'on dit "high-pitch" ;)

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by inoteb
Well, I don't know... but I doubt about that because, in fact, in most of my tests I have sound one way or another. Almost every time with TCMP (even if superimposed, I do have sound), and often with ZoomPlayer (when I unregister Morgan Stream Switcher).
Well so if there are ways to get the audio :) ...

NB - Pour un son aigu, je crois qu'on dit "high-pitch" ;)
That's why I wanted to use (I already read that in the Audio forum I think), but as I wasn't sure I used voila.fr translator (which said me that "pitch" means "lancement" :/ and "son aigu" was translated "pointed sound" :/ ... damn voila.fr !!! :devil: ).

[inoteb]

Originally posted by Suiryc

Well so if there are ways to get the audio :) ...
Yes, but it's not yet OGM heaven :( ;)

That's why I wanted to use (I already read that in the Audio forum I think), but as I wasn't sure I used voila.fr translator (which said me that "pitch" means "lancement" :/ and "son aigu" was translated "pointed sound" :/ ... damn voila.fr !!! :devil: ).
That's why I prefer my good old (and heavy!) paper French-English dictionary :D

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by Aneurysm9
I know this probably won't be high on your priority list as you're still working to develop the feature set and work out its bugs, or if it can even be done, but it would be nice if the "Save Processing Settings..." function would save the video comments and input streams/comments. I had my computer crash (for an unrelated reason) while encoding Fight Club and it's a real pain to type in 36 chapter names for a second time, not to mention the info for the four commentary tracks.
You hadn't a txt file (using SmartRipper or chapterXtractor) containing the chapters ?

Anyway now the selected input streams and their associated comments should be saved (and so could be reloaded) using the "Save processing features".
It works this way : you open your main input file (the one containing video) and then Load your processing settings.
This will remove all currently opened input streams, add the ones you had opened (before saving your settings), and set their comments.

Another modification I made in this new version : you may not care but now the About window show the date and time of compilation.


@MaTTeR
I couldn't reproduce the crash using an OGM input (with or without audio inside) + Waved AC3 opened using "Show inputs". But in the latest versions I corrected some bugs that may be related to this one. Did this still happens with the latest version ?

[Aneurysm9]

@Suiryc

Yeah, I imported the SmartRipper chapter file, but then I added the names from the DVD instead of Chapter1, Chapter2, etc. I suppose I could have changed the names in the chapter file, but I didn't think about it that way. Anyways, thanks for implementing that feature so quickly, it'll probably save other people headaches down the road too. I've now done three movies with your VDub version and haven't had any major problems (that aren't due to OggDS issues). I'll keep abusing it to see how it holds up. :devil:

[Aneurysm9]

Well, looks like I spoke too soon when I said I hadn't encountered any problems. I opened up an OGM to replace an audio track and put in chapter names and found a couple of issues. The "remove" button in the streams dialog does not remove the stream from the list. I changed the "use" flag to "no", but i don't know if it worked because VDub crashed when I tried to "Save to OGM" Also, in the video comments box, when you replace a comment it now resets the list to the top, rather than changing the comment and keeping the same set of comments in view. This may be a result of something you had to do to save comments in the processing settings and, if so, isn't really a problem. When I tried to save the OGM I got an error which said it was unable to load the debug resource file and couldn't give me a call stack, then a dialog saying "The instruction at '0x093a7a35' referenced memory at '0x01fd4af4'. The memory could not be 'read'." The crashinfo.txt file was empty, apparently because it couldn't find the debug resource file. I'll try again with a different OGM to see if I get the same result in a bit.

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by Aneurysm9 I opened up an OGM to replace an audio track and put in chapter names and found a couple of issues. The "remove" button in the streams dialog does not remove the stream from the list. I changed the "use" flag to "no", but i don't know if it worked because VDub crashed when I tried to "Save to OGM"[/B]
:) The "remove" thing is not an issue. As I said in the OGM-Readme.txt file, you cannot remove an input stream coming from your input file (the one with the video). And this is normal because how would you do if you remove such a stream, and then decide that finally you want to keep it ? You have then to reload the input file (and so you loose all what you have made so far : other files opened and comments) ;). So you did well in changing the flag from "yes" to "no" (even if VirdualDub crashed before you would do anything :( ).
What streams was there in your input file ? (how many audio and texts, and what kind of audio)

Also, in the video comments box, when you replace a comment it now resets the list to the top, rather than changing the comment and keeping the same set of comments in view.
Will see that.

When I tried to save the OGM I got an error which said it was unable to load the debug resource file and couldn't give me a call stack, then a dialog saying ...
Well don't know how to create this debug ressource file (unless it is done automatically).
Anyway I wouldn't be able to find the origin of the bug if the information are assembly ones ;)


PS : Is this allways the same kind of error you got ? (i.e. a "... adress cannot be read")

[Aneurysm9]

The "remove" thing is not an issue. As I said in the OGM-Readme.txt file, you cannot remove an input stream coming from your input file (the one with the video). And this is normal because how would you do if you remove such a stream, and then decide that finally you want to keep it ? You have then to reload the input file (and so you loose all what you have made so far : other files opened and comments) . So you did well in changing the flag from "yes" to "no" (even if VirdualDub crashed before you would do anything ).
I knew there was a reason for those readme files! :D

As for that error, I was working with 5x2ch vorbis streams, XviD video and SRT subs. It was probably just my computer acting up, however, as I was unable to reproduce it, even with the same file. I did notice another problem though, when working with an OGM input it seems that the chapter information can become missing or corrupted. I tried replacing the chapter titles on Fight Club and ended up with none, so to test I tried replacing one title and even changing nothing with FC and South Park and got nothing from SC and the first four and last two from SP.

[Suiryc]

I was working with 5x2ch vorbis streams
:eek:
And you have no problem when playing the OGM file ? (sometimes with only two audio streams my OGM files won't play :( ).

Does the chapters issue only happens on chapters ? (do you have other kind of comments, are they kept or not). How long are your clip ?

[Aneurysm9]

I've never had a problem with multiple audio streams, unless one of them is multichannel (either AC3 or Vorbis) but that's apparently an OggDS thing. Fight Club has a whopping four commentary tracks, but encoded at the lowest bitrate possible (around 45kbps) they only take 187Mb and still sound decent enough. All of the comments, other than the chapter info, remain. The video title is still there as well as the postgain and language info for the audio streams. I'm using the 10/18 binary, if I get a chance later I'll go back to one of the older binaries to see if that problem happens with them as well.

[Suiryc]

:)

1. I think I fixed the chapters issue
2. I think I fixed a bug that should made OggDS & your player crash when using subtitles and having saved parts of the clip
3. When adding/changing/moving comments the list box should not be redrawn from the top
4. I found why sometimes I couldn't play my OGM files containing multiple streams (I forgot I let "Enable all streams" selected in OggDS :( )


But I think that a bug that happens randomly (surely in one of the threads VirtualDub launch for dubbing) remain and I can't get my hand on it :(

[Aneurysm9]

Yup, looks like you fixed the chapters issues I was having. Working nearly perfectly now, except that divide-by-zero error I get every once in a while when I begin dubbing (which is probably the same random bug you're getting). Once I get my new mobo in, I'll begin converting my collection in earnest and I'll keep you up to date with any issues that may arise.

[Suiryc]

Seems like I fixed the random bug :)
I also fixed a bug that could happen in certain cases (using subtitles streams), and introduced in the previous version.
Now the predicted filesize should be a bit more accurate.
And I used UPX 1.23 to reduce the .exe size.

[Suiryc]

Nothing really new on the OGM side.
But I added a basic PNG support in VirtualDub.
Now you should be able to :
- open a sequence of PNG files (transparency information will be discarded; all formats will be converted to 24 bits RGB)
- save to a sequence of PNG files (output format supported : 24 & 32 bits; using default compression method)

[Aneurysm9]

I just had something interesting happen. I was working with Eyes Wide Shut, a full frame 4:3 movie that I opened using the AVISynth feature and MPEG2Dec, and resized to 480x320. I used StatsReader 1.9 to scale the curve to 1024000Kb, which should have given me a video size of around 1450Mb with the AC3 audio mixed in. While running the second pass, VDub told me that the file size would be around 2040Mb, but I ended up with a file that was right on target. I had the audio offset by -16ms if that might make any difference. I'm not really satisfied with the video quality (damn Kubrick for making it full frame) so I'm going to add a couple hundred megs to the video size and try again, I'll let you know if it happens again.

[Manao]

A simple one, I hope. Would it be possible to add somewhere in the windows the size of the first file if we were to cut the movie at the point where is the cursor. Or at least when this one is on keyframe. That would be great to easily find the best point of cutting, ie the one which doesn't interrupt a scene, and which is in the size limit for burning.

And thanks for developping such great tools !

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by Aneurysm9
While running the second pass, VDub told me that the file size would be around 2040Mb, but I ended up with a file that was right on target.
Was this the file size predicted near the end of the second pass ?
Sometimes the predicted file size change a lot (especially when the last part of the clip has a special treatment because of the credits)

[Aneurysm9]

yeah, that was with 99% done. I added 350Mb to the desired filesize in StatsReader and the projected filesize in VDub jumped about 400Mb (2400Mb or so) but I still ended with a proper size file.

[sillKotscha]

Hi Suiryc,

your VirtualDub/OGM mod is really great but today I recognized my first (random??) bug while trying to open your mod_version... is it possible to 'crash' the vorbis.dll? - because this is my error message and I can't open vd_ogm :confused:

thanks in advance

Sill

P.S. as you know, attachments must be validated by a moderator before they become visible ;)

Edit: the error message is in german and i don't know any good english translation

[Suiryc]

Never got such an error, but I think I know where it comes from ...

Did you move the .exe in Nandub directory or something similar ?
Because if I understand (I don't speak a word of german, but yet I can see what is the problem ;)) the message, it says that the "vorbis_packet_blocksize" function is not found in the DLL.
This is the case with older Ogg/Vorbis DLLs (such as the ones distributed with Nandub).

So normally the solution would be : replace (or remove) the Ogg/Vorbis DLL that are in the same directory than my version by the latest ones, or move my version in another directory (where those files are not).


Hope this help :)

[sillKotscha]

Originally posted by Suiryc
the solution would be : replace (or remove) the Ogg/Vorbis DLL that are in the same directory than my version by the latest ones, or move my version in another directory (where those files are not).


Hope this help :)

thx - yes, that was the solution... I've downloaded your latest version (22.10) and moved these files in an extra folder - That was the point. And your 1st conclusion was right as well - to share only 1 plugin_folder for all my vd_mods/ versions I put every *.exe in the same folder (including nandub with the old vorbis.dll) and that caused the error message.

And again - thank you, and keep up your very good work !!!

cheers Sill

[MaTTeR]

Suiryc,

I'm not sure if your familiar with alexnoe's nice avimuxGUI tool. It seems he has managed to code a tool that correctly muxes AC3 and MP3 into AVI, unlike Nandub and Vdub. Maybe you and Alex could share ideas, it would be very nice to have "proper" AC3 muxing built into Vdub. Alex's muxing process might also correct upcoming B-Frame problems that -h has mentioned in the XviD forum. Here's the link where were discussing avimux- http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36094&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Just a thought I'm throwing out for you. I'm sure he might want to pick your brain about OGM support as well.

[treev]

to Suiryc,

i recently used your virtualdubAVS&OGM to mux an avi with 3 ogg audio files and 2 srt files and encountered the problem of currupted subtitles during playback.

subtitles consisting of two lines:
<line1>
<line2>

are displayed somehow crippled on one line:
<part of line1><strange char looks like []><part of line2>

its strange, that if i demux the ogm with ogmdemux under linux the srt files look ok :confused:

[Suiryc]

Oh a Linux user :)

Maybe it is a problem related to the way the OS indicate a new line.
So could you tell me :
- how did you get the subtitles (under which OS)
- where did you get the strange result on subtitles? While playing back the file under Windows, or Linux?

[treev]

I say best of both worlds:
linux as (file)server and windows as desktop pc, this implies owning two pcs, at least for me :)

i used subrip to generate the srt and edit pad pro and ultraedit for spell checking.

corrupted subtitles were displayed during playback under win2k with bsplayer 0.85 build 488 using ogg direct show filter collection 0.9.9.5 and subtitle mixer 1.4.0.0

i can send you a short ogm clip if you like

[Suiryc]

OK for the short clip (<6MB :) ) : <suiryc AT yahoo DOT com>.
If you could also send me the original subtitle files ?

Thanks

[Suiryc]

@MaTTeR
I had a look to alexnoe's thread about AVIMuxGUI, and he does a good work :)
At least I am not the only one who want to keep AC3 (and MP3) frames "safe" (i.e. not cut them like NanDub does) ;)

Alex's muxing process might also correct upcoming B-Frame problems that -h has mentioned in the XviD forum.
Interesting, I thought this was mainly a problem with VFW (which of course doesn't handle B-frames), and so that it could not be fixed that easily (in fact a big hack would be needed at encoding time, or the use of the interesting UCI API).

It seems there are more than one problem with B-frames, and the one you are talking about seems a different one than the one I was talking :rolleyes:


@Manao
I put a latest version that shows (near the frame type) the position in file of the current frame.
This give a good estimation of how many bytes will be a part when cutting (just look the position for first frame and position for last frame, and substract :)).
In fact what is shown is the sum of file position in input file (i.e. it includes all streams in the input file) and file position in all selected (Use = Yes) external files.
Of course this is only shown when your input file is an OGM file :)
NB : this won't work properly when you delete subsets (because what I give is the position in file, not the size of the part)


@treev
Well it's strange because I have no problem with the clip you gave me, no problem with subtitles shown on 1 line ...
Yet another problem between OGM/SubtiDS/DVobSub/BSPlayer :confused: ?
Anyway I changed a little thing concerning external SRT files (when there are multiple lines I write "line1 ...\r\nline2 ..." instead of "line1 ...\nline2 ..." which was the previous behaviour).
Could you tell me if this solved your problem ?

PS : what tool did you used for cutting the clip ?

[MaTTeR]

@Suiryc

Would it then be correct to assume that your build of Vdub is also muxing and cutting AC3-WAV files correctly("safely") as Alexnoe's AVIMuxGUI? I'm only speaking of muxing to AVI and not OGM as the Ogg container is more flexible in this regard.

In regards to the B-Frame issue(s), I should have been more specific. It's my understanding one of the issues that might pose a problem with B-Frames in XviD is during the muxing process sync problems can arise. I may have spoke to soon though, Teegeedeck reported here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35593) that he even had sync problems with AVIMuxGUI. Apparently using the Ogg container resolves the B-Frame sync issues though. Thx for the time anyway.

[bb]

@suiryc:
Is it just me, or do you have to input the audio delay twice (in the Ogg menu) before your VDub mod accepts it?

bb

[treev]

@suiryc

i used your latest virtualdubAVS&OGM build to cut the sample ogm file. As i mentioned in the email the problem is gone now with your new version ;)

[Manao]

Cyrius, thank you a lot, that works perfectly. Never again will I try and miss severals times before cutting.

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by bb
@suiryc:
Is it just me, or do you have to input the audio delay twice (in the Ogg menu) before your VDub mod accepts it?
This should work the first time :rolleyes:
Nb : when you first open the "OGM inputs" window, no stream is selected (this is why the "Offset" field is blank). Then you select the stream you want to put an offset on (then the "Offset" field shows the current offset for this stream), and you enter the new offset.
If you then select no stream (you click anywhere in the list but not on a stream), the "Offset" field returns blank.


@MaTTeR
Well my mod don't handle AC3 (or MP3) stream the correct way when saving to AVI :(. It is just the "good" way when saving to OGM.
I didn't change anything concerning natural behaviour of VirtualDub when dealing with AVI files.

[MaTTeR]

Thx for clarifying Suiryc. OGM with AC3 does seem to work just fine with some basic tests I did.

[Suiryc]

Forgot to mention it but OGM and PNG mods are now included in the VirtualDubMod project (http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net).

VirtualDubAVS&OGM will stay as it is now, and bug-fixes / new features are done in VirtualDubMod :)

For specific things (bug-reports, help needed, feature request, comments, ...) you can use the SourceForge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtualdubmod) features (forums, trackers, ...) ;)