My Windows Media 9 Encoder

[-h]

Now I have a question. I'm using Windows Media Stream Editor to mux the .wma(128Kbps) & .wmv(2Mbps) files together. How come the output file size is SMALLER that the source .wmv file itself? Isn't it's file size supposed to be the sum of both files put together?

My guess is that the streams are of different durations, and a significant amount of video is being clipped.

Sure sounded funny the first time I read it though.

-h

[BiaTch 5.0]

have a question, how the hell do you predict the final file size?

[Nic]

Well with a bitrate calculator, but using VBR it can be a little, hit and miss :( But if you follow what I stated about using constrained VBR (& setting max bitrate to about 2.3x the normal bitrate)..it should come out ok :)

Cheers,
-Nic

[Stebet]

Does anyone know if WM9 uses 1024 or 1000 bits in a kbit? It seems that not all codecs use the same definition of this (think DivX uses 1024), but since it's kilobits it seems logical that 1kbit = 1000 bits.

[mkanet]

I am having a problem with Windows Media Stream Editor. When I mux a wmv and wma file with this utility, the final file will have parts of the video get stuck, wile the audio continues to play. This is consistent for me every time.

[Nic]

Thats strange mkanet, could be to do with different buffer size windows or something I'd guess, I was thinking about trying to make a muxer.

Ive added the IVTC & Deinterlace functions to my encoder, the 5.1 Audio though is still a little way from being done.... :(

-Nic

[trbarry]

I am having a problem with Windows Media Stream Editor. When I mux a wmv and wma file with this utility, the final file will have parts of the video get stuck, wile the audio continues to play. This is consistent for me every time.


Dunno about WME but some decoders/players will use the timestamps in the audio to keep the stream in sync. This means they will drop video frames when they get behind and don't have enough CPU. But if you drop enough frames but keep the audio going then you could get similar symptoms to what you saw.

- Tom

[Nic]

new version with the IVTC & deinterlace options (as well as source code) can be found at http://nic.dnsalias.com

-Nic

[trbarry]

Hi Nic -

Just a bump to thank you for your efforts here. I just started to test making moderate bit rate HDTV samples. Pretty impressive so far.

And since I don't intend to upgrade to XP soon this is a quite a nifty and useful tool.

- Tom

[lat3ralis]

@mkanet:

I get the same problem when i mux the audio + video with wm9 stream editor. I'm not entirely sure, but i think i managed to fix it. I think it may have something to do with the indexing ...

Try opening the muxed file in WM9 File Editor and then go File -> Save and Index.

See if that works,

lat3ralis

[amirm]

Nic, let me add my thanks to Tom's for writing this tool too. While I can't officially endorse all of its uses :), I do appreciate your effort in creating a tool that answers many people's questions.

Commenting on some older replies regarding encoding speed, WMV has multiple "complexity" settings which trade off quality for speed. There is an 8:1 encoding speed difference between the fastest and slowest modes. I think you lose about 20% of the quality at the fastest setting. So you may want to expose this flag so that people can opt for either encoding method (I seem to recall we had 4 settings for this). As a way of reference we can encode into DVD resolution in *real-time* on a dual CPU 1.7Ghz P4 system.

Also, we have made a few bug fixes which should improve encoding quality over beta in the RC release that just came out. Nothing huge mind you, but it may be worthwhile to retest with the latest SDK.

Thanks,
Amir
Microsoft

[Kyo]

@Nic, you always code very usefull things, keep up the work!


@amirm, nice to see a MicroCoder ;) in the Forum! This is real support! thanks man.

[RadicalEd]

first a Real developer and now someone from MS
doom9 is just too cool for words :cool:

[philippas]

@Nic
After installing wm9codecs without the drf stuff i get the following error:
The procedure entry point WMCreateWriter could not be located in the dynamic link library WMVCore.dll

I'm using WinXp sp1.

Any ideas why i get this error ? Is it the service pack ?

[Nic]

@amirm:
Thanks amirm :) Oh & BTW get nikki in Reading to get her act together & send out that recruitment info ;) (j/k)
(I will expose that flag, I must have missed it)

@phillipas:
I take it that a restart of the computer didnt help? Ill try & make a new one with the new SDK.

Cheers,
-Nic

[RadicalEd]

Reading? I live in Reading
it's in the US though :/

[The Belgain]

I've tried installing the WM9 codec (for playback) from Nic's site, but it doesn't seem to work. WMP6.4 just searches for the codec (ettempting to downlaod an appropriate one), mplayer Classic says error rendering file, and BSPlayer says unknown file format.]

I tried both WM9.zip, and the exe too.

I'm running Win 2k Pro, dunno is this is a problem.

Now that microsoft seem to have produced another decent codec, do you think we'll be seeing a hack to allow it to be used in any container, and possibly allow a Nandub-like utility to interface with it? DivX 5.11 alpha anyone?

[slavickas]

Originally posted by The Belgain
I've tried installing the WM9 codec (for playback) from Nic's site, but it doesn't seem to work. WMP6.4 just searches for the codec (ettempting to downlaod an appropriate one), mplayer Classic says error rendering file, and BSPlayer says unknown file format.]

I tried both WM9.zip, and the exe too.

I'm running Win 2k Pro, dunno is this is a problem.

Now that microsoft seem to have produced another decent codec, do you think we'll be seeing a hack to allow it to be used in any container, and possibly allow a Nandub-like utility to interface with it? DivX 5.11 alpha anyone?

wimp6.4 can't play wmv9 videos (special m$ tricks i guess)
wimp8 on xp with codec from Nic's site or wimp 9 of course can play

[griff30]

Originally posted by The Belgain
Now that microsoft seem to have produced another decent codec, do you think we'll be seeing a hack to allow it to be used in any container, and possibly allow a Nandub-like utility to interface with it? DivX 5.11 alpha anyone?
You can use The older Flask to make backups if encodeing is what you mean. There is a small utility at DivX Digest that allows you to select Windows media audio and video output and in the old Flask it works like a champ! Now if that utility called WMCreator can be made to work with Flask, I dont see why It cant be made to work with Nandub or VirtualDub. As fas as "any" container, I don't think we will be legally allowed to turn this codec into a ".avi" codec if that is what you mean.
I would like to see a few more encoding engines allow output to windows media. Maybe an easy one like Vidomi or VirtualDub.

[OntzA]

@griff30

It can't be used with Virtualdub or Nandub because they use VFW and there's no VFW support for last windows media codecs. You must use a program that uses DirecShow.

And about the container... you can add windows media audio stream to OGM using graphedit, I have tried to mux video stream, it works but it doesn't decode, at least using Media Player Classic. It says there isn't any directshow filter to decode it. I have to try decoding using graphedit to see if there's any DS filter combination.

But as I have said before, you can't use that video or audio stream with virtualdub or nandub.

Edit: You can also mux wma stream to avi, using Avi Mux DS filter(again with graphedit, I love this tool! :D ), but it has sync problems.

[tiki4]

Off topic:


Sorry for asking that but why does M$ prevent 5.1 playback of WMA 9 Pro in all other Operating Systems except WinXP? I just cannot understand what's the reason for that.

To clarify: All 5.1 WMA 9 Pro streams are downmixed to stereo if they are not played on Windows XP.

Is this only marketing or are there any real technical reasons?

tiki4

[bizcobailey]

Nic,

Thank you for a wonderful decoder -- this greatly simplifies the WM9 encoding process.

I was hoping that a future version would contain a preference file (.ini) that could remember the settings of particular encodes, much like that of GKnot. Even if the WMEnc could retain the settings of the last encode would be terrific. I've been encoding Futurama DVDs, and I use the same settings for every episode.

I do have one question. I've been using Windows Media 9 for video (with 192KBps, 48Khz VBR audio) utilizing MultiPass Encoding. I have set my Bitrate to 1000000 and VBR to "Unconstrained" -- I'm looking for the best quality encode regardless of file size. What I don't understand is why every encode I make comes out to 188MB. While this is much lower than any of my Futurama encodes with DivX 5.02, I don't get why it always comes out to the same file size. Shouldn't using "Unconstrained" VBR make the file size vary? I'm very new to Windows Media encoding, so please treat me like a 5 year old. ;)

Again, thanks for WMEnc. It's a great tool.

Cheers,
RW

[Ariakis]

What about a CQ mode? If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the WM9Encoder allow you to specify quality-mode for video? Basically, pure VBR like the audio quality mode...

[fozzieb]

Move on, nothing to see here

[slavickas]

Originally posted by Ariakis
What about a CQ mode? If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the WM9Encoder allow you to specify quality-mode for video? Basically, pure VBR like the audio quality mode...

click on "Use VBR" ? ;)

[Ariakis]

Originally posted by slavickas
click on "Use VBR" ? ;)

It still uses the "Bitrate" field as a target bitrate. I'm looking for constant quality. It's possible with the MS Encoder, but I need AVS input.

[ntropy]

I've been doing WMV9 encodings for a few days now which have gone fine, but the latest was a file that was 1 hour and 49 minutes long and the audio cut out at the 1 hour 34 minute mark. This took 6 hours to encode.

Is there a limit to how long audio and video can be encoded together?

[diogen]

Is there a limit to how long audio and video can be encoded together?No.
Something must be wrong with the original.

Diogen.

[ntropy]

No.
Something must be wrong with the original.

Diogen.

The audio plays fine from the AVS file in media player classic, so what could be wrong?

[diogen]

What type of file is it?
What is the graph?

Diogen.

[ntropy]

What type of file is it?
What is the graph?


Quicktime DVcam file using the QTSource.dll plugin to read it.

[diogen]

When you drop the file onto GraphEdit, what does the graph look like? This is exactly how WME selects filters/decoders.

Try to play the file in GraphEdit, does it have errors around the time encoding drops audio?

Diogen.

[ntropy]

When you drop the file onto GraphEdit, what does the graph look like? This is exactly how WME selects filters/decoders.

Try to play the file in GraphEdit, does it have errors around the time encoding drops audio?

Diogen.

The graph looks like this:
http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=day11graphli1.jpg

Graphedit has no errors around the time of the dropped audio.

[diogen]

Hmmm...
Don't know what else to look at..
To eliminate the particular place, can you try to encode a short clip (couple minutes)
using WME by setting Mark In/Out before and after the offending time?

Diogen.

[ntropy]

Hmmm...
Don't know what else to look at..
To eliminate the particular place, can you try to encode a short clip (couple minutes)
using WME by setting Mark In/Out before and after the offending time?


I encoded the same portion (last eleven minutes) and it went fine. Maybe it's a glitch that only occurs after encoding has gone on for a long time.

[diogen]

WME can be very picky in terms of splitters, audio/video decoders and such. But I never had problems you describe. If it manages to start encoding, it always finishes.

To make it very artificial, load this file twice into the list of files to encode.
Take the first half from the first file in the list and the second half - from the second (using Mark In/Out).
Pick "Roll Over" in the drop down menu.

Diogen.

[ntropy]

To make it very artificial, load this file twice into the list of files to encode.
Take the first half from the first file in the list and the second half - from the second (using Mark In/Out).
Pick "Roll Over" in the drop down menu.


I don't see this drop down menu in Nic's WMEnc v1.00 Alpha encoder nor the ability to load multiple files.

I just encoded another file and the audio cut out again at around 1h33m. I'm trying again using "Windows Media Audio 9.1" instead of "Windows Media Audio 9.1 Professional".

[diogen]

I didn't know you use Nic's encoder.
I was talking about MS' front end.

Diogen.

[ntropy]

I didn't know you use Nic's encoder.
I was talking about MS' front end.

I thought Nic's was the only way to do AVS files. And I thought this thread was about Nic's encoder.

[zambelli]

I thought Nic's was the only way to do AVS files. And I thought this thread was about Nic's encoder.
You can do .avs input with WME9. You can even do command-line encoding with http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111633.

[ntropy]

You can do .avs input with WME9. You can even do command-line encoding with http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111633.

I get an error with WME (Version 9.00.00.2980):



The file "L\:DAY14.AVS" is not a valid source file. It may have an unsupported or invalid format or may be corrupted.

No such interface supported
(0x8004002)

Enter a different file name before continuing.


I thought the whole point of Nic's encoder was to support AVS files which were going unsupported.

[Nic]

My encoder was about making things easier to use and less bloated than WM9Encoder...

...WM9Encoder can encode AVS. But, AFAIK, it uses DirectShow to render the file, and is therefore dependant on what DirectShow filters a user has installed. I can't remember the precise details on what is needed to make it work, but a search of the forum should help if your interested.

(My encoder uses old style Win32 AVI API to load the AVS and not DirectShow which tends to be more reliable in this instance)

-Nic

[zambelli]

ntropy and Nic,

The WME9 AVS support issue is described in the post that I linked in my reply to Ntropy. WME9 relies on an internal AVI source filter to read AVS and fails due to its inability to retrieve Duration attribute from the AVS source.

The issue can be bypassed in the GUI encoder by specifiying "Both Device and File" as source, or in the command-line encoder by using the updated wmcmd.vbs, once again provided in the linked post.

[ntropy]

ntropy and Nic,

The WME9 AVS support issue is described in the post that I linked in my reply to Ntropy. WME9 relies on an internal AVI source filter to read AVS and fails due to its inability to retrieve Duration attribute from the AVS source.

The issue can be bypassed in the GUI encoder by specifiying "Both Device and File" as source, or in the command-line encoder by using the updated wmcmd.vbs, once again provided in the linked post.

Nic's encoder is easier to use for my purposes. WME9 seems to hang a lot:

Hanging application wmenc.exe, version 9.0.0.2980, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.

[wiak]

nice, good work
any progress on 5.1 support?
am trying to convert a 1920x1080 h264 with AAC 5.1 to 1920x1080p wmv with wma 5.1 but it dosnt want to :rolleyes:
it decodes and everything in graphedit

|> CoreAVC Decoder > Video Render
1080p.avs - |
|> CoreAAC Decoder > Audio Render

CoreAAC (outputs 6ch) & then FFDShow can transcode but not into wma :(

meybe something like this

1080p.avs - |> ffdshow (input aac / same as input / output LPCM 5.1) > nic wmenc > 5.1 wma
or
1080p.avs -|> coreaac (output 6ch) > nic wmenc > 5.1 wma

or something, havnt tested it yet, hehe, encoding 1080p h264 to 1080p Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile (VC-1)

and can you add progress in % and current/lastframe
like this: Encoding 50%, 5000/10000
and dont forget!, estimated filesize

[dlflannery]

@zambelli
Will WME9 actually accept mpeg2 inputs ???
I and many others can't get it to, although the documentation says all you need is the right codec. I've tried several codecs including the NVIDIA one, which didn't work so I uninstalled it. My mpegs play fine in WMP and GraphEdit. The rendering chain is:
video: splitter->Cyberlink Video SP Decoder SPDVD7->Video Renderer

audio: splitter->AC3 filter->Default Direct Sound Device

However after a long delay with high CPU usage WME9 crashes. When I use the command line version it spits out a slew of messages such as this:
==============
ContextException thrown by BaseCertificate::GetField [.\BaseCertificate.cpp:903]
with context
Field
MPEG_2_1
not found in certificate
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Roxio Shared\Certificates8\SDMX35.rxc

The NCBENUM return code is: 0x0
The NCBENUM return code is: 0x0
The NCBENUM return code is: 0x0
The NCBENUM return code is: 0x0
The NCBENUM return code is: 0x0
===========================
All of them refer to Roxio. I have Roxio EMC9 installed but as you can see from the rendering chain, the codecs are not used (they have low merit assigned.)

I even tried unregistering the Roxio MPEG2 codecs and I still got these messages. Are they the problem or just incidental?

I have other ways to get my mpeg2's into wmv's but I would like to make wme9 work the way the docs say it should.

Thanks

[Toti]

First time I use the encoder, I know that its been around for quite a while but now is when I have started using it.

1. When I set "VBR options" and check mark "Use VBR" it seems that the quality settings does not respect the bitrate set and it shoots to 59 Mbps.

2. if I set VBR but change it to "constraint" or "Unconstraint" the video looks terrible and bitrate is around 500Kbps.

3. Is there anyway to use good old "Average bit-rate" and "Max Bitrate" ?

Help is appreciated.

[benwaggoner]

First time I use the encoder, I know that its been around for quite a while but now is when I have started using it.
First off, read this:

http://on10.net/blogs/benwagg/Best-practices-for-Windows-Media-Encoder-in-2009/

1. When I set "VBR options" and check mark "Use VBR" it seems that the quality settings does not respect the bitrate set and it shoots to 59 Mbps.
Quality VBR? That's quality limited, without any bitrate control.

2. if I set VBR but change it to "constraint" or "Unconstraint" the video looks terrible and bitrate is around 500Kbps.
You presumably set it to 500 Kbps average? What's your frame size and content?

3. Is there anyway to use good old "Average bit-rate" and "Max Bitrate" ?
That's VBR Constrained mode.

Note you can use VBR Constrained for both Video and Audio in Windows Media.

[Toti]

Thanks @Ben Waggoner. :thanks:

I was too vague on my question. Let me elaborate a little.

TARGET: .wmv inside Windows 7 "Movie Library". I chose wmv file since it is the only format that everything works inside Media Center natively (FF,RR,Slider,Tags,Hardware Acceleration).

SOURCE: Blu-Ray & DVD.

Avisynth Scripts:

DVD 4:3
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DG MPG Decoder 1.5.4\NicAudio.dll")

loadplugin("C:\Program Files\DG MPG Decoder 1.5.4\DGDecode.dll")

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DG MPG Decoder 1.5.4\Decomb521.dll")

video=MPEG2Source("C:\Users\Admin2\Documents\Movie.d2v")
audio=NicAC3Source("C:\Users\Admin2\Documents\Movie.ac3",6)
AudioDub(video,audio)
BicubicResize(640,480)

Telecide(1,guide=1,vthresh=0)

Decimate(cycle=5)

FieldDeinterlace(Full=False,threshold=15,dthreshold=9)

Blu-Ray "Assuming MPEG2 & AC3"
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DG MPG Decoder 1.5.4\NicAudio.dll")

loadplugin("C:\Program Files\DG MPG Decoder 1.5.4\DGDecode.dll")

video=MPEG2Source("C:\Users\Admin2\Documents\Movie.d2v")
audio=NicAC3Source("C:\Users\Admin2\Documents\Movie.ac3",6)
AudioDub(video,audio)


My old way of encoding wmv's.
1. Encoding to VC1 (CineVision) -> Solveig ASF Muxer -> Mux with Windows Media Stream Editor
2. Encoding to WMV (MainConcept Reference) -> Solveig ASF Muxer (needed) -> Mux with Windows Media Stream Editor

New Way of encoding wmv's.
1. Nic's WMNicEnc 1.0.2 Beta
2. Windows Media Encoder 9

Any of the last two ways to encode produce either the same quality as Mainconcept or better. Now I noticed that "VBR Quality" at 94% or 95% is ideal since they produce (to my eyes) a transparent encode to the original.
I understand that size is unknown since it depends on the complexity of the video.

My original question was using Nic's Encoder (Awesome By the way) be used by setting the average and max bit-rate. You already answered that...thanks. Even though I still set it constrained it does not respect my values and produces a video really low quality but never mind. I'll stick to quality 94%~95% (think is more effective than VBR with ave/high settings).

New question, does Nic's WMEnc uses the same encoding engine as Windows Media Encoder?

If wmv using VC1 produces such an Excellent quality and is FREE encoder why do people use MKV, MP4, TS or M2TS? when this works natively with Windows. I guess I'll put that question on another part of the forum since I want to know other peoples opinion.