alternative PC AC3 decoders

[Laryllan]

@MaTTer
The problem occurs using BSPlayer (086.493) too. Normally, I´m muxing ac3 with Nandub, preload 500ms and interleaving every 64ms. But the video stutters on all clips I´ve tested, not only on mine.

@Valex
Both version solved the stuttering, but none of them was able to get the ac3 stream to my decoder, i.e. no sound at all in SPDIF mode. Other modes work fine with video playing smooth as silk.

[Valex]

@Laryllan
Both version solved the stuttering
Good!

no sound at all in SPDIF mode.
Did it work in v0.63b or in v0.55b?

@ookzDVD
It is it good after seeking now?

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Laryllan
Normally, I�m muxing ac3 with Nandub, preload 500ms and interleaving every 64ms. Please try AVImux, NanDub's AC3 muxing code is not proper! Just use the AVImux default settings and see what happens.

[Laryllan]

@MaTTer
I´ve tried AVImux (1.11) with default settings on ac3filter 0.63b - it makes the video stuttering a lot better, but it´s not able remove it completely. Never tried that program but think I like it! :)

@Valex
SPDIF output works on 0.63b but the video is stuttering strongly.
0.63b was the first version I tested and since you asked my to try 0.55b I did - the stuttering is gone on SPDIF out. Odd.
So, SPDIF works in 0.55b very good and 0.63b with video stutters on all kinds of ac3 files. It doesn´t work in the avisync2 & 3 versions.

[MaTTeR]

@Valex,

I'm about to publish a major update of the AC3 FAQ but have a quick question. Do you know of any other problems besides the typical Win9x and SB driver issues we all love to hate?;)

I can email you a copy of the FAQ if you want to proof read it before Doom9 posts it. TIA

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by Valex
@ookzDVD
It is it good after seeking now? [/B]

@Valex,
Yes... the jumping channel after seeking is gone,
only play/pause is still problem.

Thank you.

[Valex]

@ookzDVD
One more try:
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_mapping2.exe

[ZeB]

What do you guys exactly mean with "jumping channels"?

[Valex]

@ZeB
When center channel jumps to left channel and vice versa etc.

[Micro]

I have the same problem with S/PDIF as described by Laryllan,
0.55b works perfectly, 0.63b stutters heavily
regardless of used AC3 muxing method.
I have Asus P4PE with onboard AD1980 codec, WinXP.
WinDVD and PowerDVD filters worked also well but I just like
Valex decoder :-)

[Valex]

@Micro
Does SPDIF works with:
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_avisync3.exe
?

[NuclearFusi0n]

Dolby headphone would be excellent
http://www.dolby.com/dolbyheadphone/

[Micro]

Thanks, I'll try it today after work.

[ZeB]

Originally posted by Valex
@ZeB
When center channel jumps to left channel and vice versa etc.

Thanks for the explanation and for a very good AC3 decoder!

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by NuclearFusi0n
Dolby headphone would be excellent Especially in the WinAmp AC3 plugin:D

[Micro]

@Valex
With latest AC3Filter "avisync3" it seems,
that there are no more problems with S/PDIF out,
"stuttering" is gone.

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by Valex
@ookzDVD
One more try:
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_mapping2.exe

@Valex,

the jumping channel while play/pause is still happen. :(

[bexx]

"

quote:Originally posted by NuclearFusi0n
Dolby headphone would be excellent

Especially in the WinAmp AC3 plugin

"

I'd do anything for dobly headphone heh

btw this ac3 decoder is great, not much more you could ask for really

[Zinc]

Yeah, Dolby Headphone feature would be great!

[bokus70]

I just want to say that creative card users should try to find new audigy/live drivers in their full pack installation. I have ancient sblive value (4 channel) and these drivers work quite good. :)

So, why do you need this? Well, these drivers I stumbled upon are from 24th July 2002. - the newest up to this very moment. The official live driver pack is from 18th March 2002. and these drivers can only be installed on w2k/xp. But these new drivers are for win98se too! I tried them immediately and it all works well. Now I have the same interface and usability in win98se, just as I had in win2k (with the official livedrv pack).

Not to mention that these drivers solved all problems I had with AC3 filter in win98SE when playing DVDs. :)

Unfortunately these drivers can't be downloaded - at least I don't know where - you just have to find someone who just bought live 5.1 or audigy card and use the drivers from the CD.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by bokus70
Unfortunately these drivers can't be downloaded OMG! I can't believe they are making people pay money for drivers now. Sounds like a complete sham, especially considering most if not all drivers they write are garbage. Maybe consumers will wake up and realize who they are dealing with and consider alternatives:rolleyes:

[Valex]

@Laryllan
One more idea:
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_avisync4.exe
Does SPDIF work in this version?

[Valex]

@ookzDVD
One more test for you too:
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_mapping3.exe

Please take a note of CPU usage if it will raise compared to other versions.

[Laryllan]

After installing your test version and setting output to SPDIF I heard a low-noise crackling sound in my decoder - this sound usually appears only if it switches to DD mode. So I played around a bit, seeked in my ac3 file (in ZoomPlayer) and ... it works!

But the decoder recognizes the DD signal only after the first seek operation.

So I tried your avisynch2&3 versions again - exactly the same. Sorry for not testing enough...
In ZoomPlayer pause/play doesn´t do the trick, but stop/play does.

I´m available on ICQ for further testing. So feel free to request my UIN.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Laryllan
I´m using WinXP SP1, DirectX 9.0 and a Sb Audigy Card with latest drivers (5.12.1.253 says windows). Actually I don't think those are the latest...

http://www.asia.creative.com/support/drivers/newfiles.asp?region=1&sa=&NumDays=30&x=14&y=10

Fixes:
* Removes distortion during AC-3 playback
* Improves multi channel wave file playback

Features includes:
* Drivers are WHQL Certified
* Provides Dolby Digital decoding from external SPDIF Input.
AUDDRVPACK_L11

I believe these are 5.12.1.283. Worth a shot...

[Laryllan]

Actually you´re right but I´ve installed these (AUDDRVPACK_L11.EXE, 31.12.02) a few days ago but windows still states the installed drivers are v5.12.1.253 (from 12.08.2002). I completely uninstalled the drivers and reinstalled the soundcard from scratch (installation disc, then applying L11) - no effect, Windows thinks they are old.
I didn´t install all of the crappy software that came with the card, so maybe the update is for that software only. (or I do have a serious problem)

btw, as said I don´t think it´s a driver issue cause Moonlight Odio Decoda does SPDIF right.

[cca]

@Laryllan:

I also have WinXP SP1, DirectX 9 and an SB Audigy with the 253 drivers but in my case the ac3filter works perfectly. I have the Audigy hooked to a Creative DTT2500 and it immediately recognizes the AC3 signal as soon as I hit the Play button in ZoomPlayer 3 beta 5.5. So your problem must be a combination of AC3filter and your decoder. About the stutters, when you configure ac3filter for S/PDIF
you should also select the Default Wave Out Device in ZoomPlayer. If you let ZoomPLayer load the Directsound Renderer the you are certain to experience stuttering. At least this is what happens in my system.

By the way, the 283 drivers that MaTTeR mentioned are only for Audigy 2. If these drivers get installed on an Audigy 1, you can say bye bye to AC3 passthrough! The AUDDRVPACK_L11.EXE is indeed the v5.12.1.253 driver released previously but now it supports 11 languages, it has no other additions.

Congratulations Valex, excelent work!

[bokus70]

Just a follow-up to my last post - I removed win2000 and installed win xp pro sp1 just to try to sort things out with sblive problems. I used these new drivers I found and guess what - all works perfectly. No channel jumping at all.

I am not using spdif but I am positive that analog multichannel works good. And the drivers are 5.12.2.252 (notice the third number, it IS 2, not 1) with the date stamp of 24.7.2002.

So, maybe Valex has to do some more tweaking, but all in all (what a surprise ;) ) the Creative drivers seem to be the major pain.

[Laryllan]

cca is right, if I enable custom wave out audio in ZoomPlayer the stream is recognized instantly. This works for all "avisync" versions.

However, it cannot solve the stuttering effect in 0.63b.

Thanks for your insight in Creative drivers, cca!

[cca]

@Laryllan:

I don't know if it will help you with the stutters, but you may try the ReClock DirectShow filter from this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39887). With this little tool you may also see some stutter, but if you pause and resume playback it should go away. I think it's worth a shot.

[Laryllan]

Thanks, but there is no need for that. The avisync version is doing SPDIF quite right.

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by Valex
@ookzDVD
One more test for you too:
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_mapping3.exe

Please take a note of CPU usage if it will raise compared to other versions.

@Valex,

This version is still have problem with jumping channel after
play/pause.

Thank you.

[KyleK]

Since I too had this stuttering problem when using SPDIF as output, I downloaded ac3filter_avisync2/3/4.exe which all fix the stuttering.
But, now I can't change the volume of any AC3 movies, no matter what player. I tried WMP6.4, Winamp/NiceMC and Zoomplayer 3.00b5.
It doesn't matter if output is set to WaveOut or DirectSound, both have this problem.
UPDATE: I just found out that 0.63b also has this issue.
Can anyone confirm this behaviour?

[Micro]

@KyleK,

when passing UNCHANGED AC3 stream to S/PDIF out, it should not be possible to change the audio volume with any application.
And this is the best situation as the audio stream remains untouched by re-encoding.
Do you have NForce(2) based MB ?

[KyleK]

Hi Micro,

no, i got a quite old one, with a Via KT133.
after playing around a bit with different old versions of AC3Filter i came to the conclusion that this behaviour might be on purpose/a technical reason. Still, I was kinda surprised that i never noticed before ;)

[Valex]

Second prerelease:
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_rc2.exe
Should work as avisync versions. And some W98 issues fixed.

@Laryllan
Try SPDIF1/SPDIF2 modes in new version with DirectShound.

You can also try
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_maping3.exe version.

I want to understand why Odio works well with SPDIF/DirectSound. Binary output of my filter is completely the same as Odio. So cause somewhere in stream parameters I need to try one by one.

@ookzDVD
Good. One theory is completely checked and found wrong :). Will try to invent something other...

[bokus70]

@Kylek: I had the very same problem until I moved on to Windows XP pro. The problem lies in the Creative drivers. Now everything works OK, with every ac3filter version I tried, even channel jumping is gone.

[NuclearFusi0n]

not to nag or anything, i'm just curious about whether dolby headphone is being planned or whatever

thanks valex, excellent filter! :D

[KyleK]

Originally posted by bokus70
@Kylek: I had the very same problem until I moved on to Windows XP pro. The problem lies in the Creative drivers. Now everything works OK, with every ac3filter version I tried, even channel jumping is gone.

That can't be it, I'm on Windows XP Pro too ;)
SP1 is installed, and Audigy Drivers 5.12.1.253.
As I said, I can't change sound when using SPDIF as output in AC3Filter.

This leads me to another 2 questions:
I got a Creative Audigy, and using AC3Filter I have 2 options:
1) Choose 3/2+LEF 5.1channel in AC3Filter and let AC3Filter do the decoding.
2) Choose SPDIF and let the Creative drivers do the decoding
Any clue which one is "better" (if different at all)?


2nd question: I'm thinking of switching to another soundcard.
Since I only have a Creative Inspire 5.1 5300 speaker system, I wondered if there are other cards that can decode AC3?

[Laryllan]

@KyleK
As your first question is concerned, you have a third option. Disable ac3 decoding in Creative´s SurroundMixer and plug SPDIF to an external decoder.
Your question about quality is not easily answered: Normally every decoder should do the same, but small changes can cause big differences. Every decoder sounds different. I am using an Audigy too and for myself, I don´t like it´s ac3 decoding. It´s kinda overpowered, the low frequencies are washy and channel separation is not as it should be.

@Valex
rc2 does a really fine job as soon as I use ZoomPlayer´s default wave out device. No stutters and immediate playback (stream is recognized instantly as playback begins). Works in all SPDIF output modes.
With DirectSound there is no output at all.

[KyleK]

Originally posted by Laryllan
@KyleK
As your first question is concerned, you have a third option. Disable ac3 decoding in Creative´s SurroundMixer and plug SPDIF to an external decoder.
Well, yeah I left that out on purpose since i neither have the space nor the money for a external decoder ;)

[Laryllan]

Valex, I might have a clue why it doesn´t work with DirectSound. After taking a look at ZoomPlayers filters currently in use, I discovered the following:
As soon as the signal gets to my decoder a 32ms buffer is created. You can check this at the DirectSound/WaveOut device properties (in "advanced" tab). Using DirectSound there is no buffer in any SPDIF output mode.

[Jm8]

Hi,

I've been followingthis thread for a few days and I have tried to do most of the suggestions I could find.

My system is this:
PIII 600 MHz
Matrox Dualhead graphics board, LCD + Projector connected.
Creative Live 5.1 digital
Pioneer Receiver

Projector is connected to the primary VGA...

OK I know I probably have the worst setup possible for this but I've had some luck atleast.

My main problem has been that as soon as I choose SPDIF output I get sound that is interrupet several times per second and therefore sound very choppy, if that is a word. I have also noticed that the picture get less smooth as soon as I choose SPDIF. I then by accident tried to modify the settings for the graphics board during playback and voilá suddenly the sound was perfect and picture sharp as h.. I then went to fullscreen mode and that when I turned into a sad mode again, the picture was very choppy, could be due to the fact that the Pc is a bit too slow.

Sound works in these circumstances:
* Start movie
* Go into graphics settings and change dual head properties and select apply and then change back.
* Finished

This works with direct sound/Wave out/ any AC-3 filter. I tried Valex, Elegards and the Intervideo.

Is there a chance that I might get video to performe better do you think? I'm using ffdshow, but have tried the normal XVID decoder(the film is in Xvid).


I actually also tried to modify the hardware acceleration for video and that also changed the behaviour a little, when disabling DirectX
I had good sound without changing dual head properties. Haven't done thismore then one time though...

Regards,
Jm8


I've been trying all types of

[GAteKeeper]

I have a TB Santa Cruz (Technically a videologic Sonic Fury) and windows XP sp1 and i cant get the SP/DIF out to work on any versions of ac3filter (tried 0.55 0.63 and 0.64).

@Matter I see that you have used/still use a SC and i was wondering how you have it set up. I only have a digital connection to my amp and so i have the digital out enabled by default.

Edit: I have had a further play and PowerDVD can do the pass though but ac3filter cant. TB SC driver: 5.12.1.4161

TIA

GAteKeeper

[MaTTeR]

Hi GAteKeeper,

I have the TB Santa Cruz in a Win2K/SP3 box along with the 4161 drivers as well. All versions since 0.55 of AC3filter have passed AC3 & DTS flawlessly for me so far. The latest RC2 build also passes audio in all 3 of the SPDIF modes offered. Like you, I've only got a digital cable going to my external amp.

IIRC AC3filter is also using WaveOut with TBSC instead of the DirectSound render. Maybe this is the issue?? The latest RC2 build of the filter includes a script to change. BTW- I think you have to make sure the windows control panel is set to headphone speakers, sort of odd but makes since because thats the digital out port.

[GAteKeeper]

@MaTTer thanks for your reply.

I have found that ac3filter is outputting to the SP/DIF!!

Its just that its only utilising 1 channel of the SP/DIF, the right and my home built 75ohm 3.5mm Jack to RCA was using the left.

All other sounds appear on both digital channels but when a SP/DIF pass though is enabled it cuts the sound.

So i think this should be a caveat about the digital out on Santa Cruz's!

OK so back to the soldering iron for me :D

Edit: Ok after more testing rc2 only works in waveout mode (DSound give a cant connect to pin error), 0.55 works in directsound and waveout. SO i am using 0.55 to avoid the CPU load issue with the 0.63/4 versions.

Thanks

GAteKeeper

[Valex]

http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_rc3.exe

I hope this version solves DirectSound/SPDIF problem (cannot connect pins) and more stable channels switching.

ookzDVD:
It is possible that it will help with channel jumping problem too.

GAteKeeper:
I am using 0.55 to avoid the CPU load issue with the 0.63/4 versions.

Hmmm. What is about CPU load?

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by Valex
http://ac3filter.sourceforge.net/download/ac3filter_rc3.exe

I hope this version solves DirectSound/SPDIF problem (cannot connect pins) and more stable channels switching.

ookzDVD:
It is possible that it will help with channel jumping problem too.



@Valex,

Just test it and I still got jumping channel while pause/play.

[Laryllan]

SPDIF output works flawlessly in ALL SPDIF-out modes.

A big THX to you, Valex!

[bflora1952]

I rip ac3 files from dvd's to make cd's and mp3's. Wimp and winamp w/plug-in both play the ripped ac3 audio files on my computer. If I connect the sp/dif out on my TB Santa Cruz to digital input on receiver, will I be able to pass the ac3 to the receiver for processing? Will I need any of the ac3 filters being discussed if I only want audio ac3?