Sigma Designs capitulated?

[lighty]

I got this mail yesterday after I sent e-mail enquiry to them. They give no credits to XviD team but at least it will be open source now.


###
Contacts:
Ken Lowe Stephanie Porter
Sigma Designs, Inc. Edelman PR Worldwide
408.957.9850 650.968.4033
kal@sdesigns.com stephanie.porter@edelman.com

SIGMA MAKES SOURCE CODE AVAILABLE FOR ITS MPEG-4 VIDEO CODEC

MILPITAS, Calif.-August 22, 2002-Sigma Designs, Inc. (Nasdaq: SIGM), a
leader in IP video streaming solutions, today announced the release of the
source code behind its free MPEG-4 video CODEC that works as a plug-in under
WindowsR and encodes digitized video content into fully compatible ISO
MPEG-4 video files. The complete source code will be available for download
starting August 23rd, free of charge, through Sigma's website
(www.sigmadesigns.com) to support developers wishing to enhance the MPEG-4
encoding.
"We are pleased to provide the development community with an open source
MPEG-4 CODEC, and anticipate that this will accelerate technical
improvements and enhance the proliferation of MPEG-4 content," stated Ken
Lowe, Sigma Designs' vice president of business development.
About Sigma Designs, Inc.
Sigma Designs specializes in silicon-based MPEG decoding for streaming
video, progressive DVD playback, and advanced digital set-top boxes. The
company's award-winning REALmagicR Video Streaming Technology is used in
both commercial and consumer applications providing highly integrated
solutions for high-quality decoding of MPEG-1, MPEG-2, and MPEG-4.
Headquartered in Milpitas, Calif., the company also has sales offices in
China, Europe, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea and Taiwan. For more information,
please visit the company's web site at www.sigmadesigns.com/.
###

[robUx4]

The code has to be GPLed too !
And they should also mention the XVid basis of the code.

Let's see when they release it, and what the copyright will be in the GPL notice of each source file :)
They are not allowed to change the Xvid ones.

[robUx4]

Mmm, forget that post. I just saw that the source are available, and they changed the copyright notice.

It's time for legal actions ! Let's get a lawyer.

[lighty]

And update via e-mail!

###
Interested Parties concerning Sigma's MPEG-4 CODEC

Thank you for contacting Sigma Designs and requesting information that
relates to our MPEG-4 CODEC and the availability of its source code. We
would like to take this opportunity to address the relevant issues that have
been raised.

To begin with, Sigma developed an MPEG-4 CODEC to assist in the
proliferation of MPEG-4 content and to ensure that users can create content
libraries compatible with the ISO MPEG-4 video specifications and its
implementation in silicon. Fulfilling this goal was carried out in two
steps. The first was the introduction of an MPEG-4 CODEC, provided free of
charge, so that worldwide users could begin encoding new content. The
second was the release of source code, so that the development community
could continue with technical improvements. Sigma never intended in making,
nor realized, any profits from this code base.

Several weeks after the CODEC was first released, Sigma was contacted by the
XVID development team regarding the use of certain portions of their code.
Upon examination, it was determined that one of our programmers, unbeknownst
to management and contrary to Sigma's policy, had utilized some routines
posted by XVID as open source. During the past four weeks, Sigma had
communicated with XVID to resolve the situation. As a result, Sigma has
decided to make the current version of the MPEG-4 CODEC available under the
GPL license.

Sigma is a supporter of the Linux operating system, appreciates the work
being done by the open source community, and continues to issue certain
other code under open source arrangements. Though we believe that we have
acted as expediently as possible, Sigma Designs sincerely apologizes to the
open source community for this inadvertent use of GPL code and for the
several weeks it took to resolve the situation.

Sincerely,


Ken Lowe
Vice President of Business Development
###

[cofferscuffs]

"small chunks of code" wtf... from my understanding it was mostly XviD code, then they just added small chunks and cut away a small bit...

[Doom9]

that and they tried to make it look like less XviD code was used by applying "techniques" that we all use to cheat when we have to turn in software in school ;)
looks to me like they removed their proprietary SLA everywhere.. what I haven't checked so far (another family gathering and they're already expecting me) is if the source code contains proper copyright notices now.

[Nic]

all use to cheat when we have to turn in software in school

:D I was so broke at Uni, I sold certain parts of my coursework to others who used the same tricks as Sigma to disguise the code :)
(that didnt fool my lecturers :) so how sigma thought it would fool us, I don't know)

Sigma are trying to save face, but I found out today perhaps there is another GPL violation by Sigma (different project)......watch this space.

-Nic

[Koepi]

Originally posted by Doom9
that and they tried to make it look like less XviD code was used by applying "techniques" that we all use to cheat when we have to turn in software in school ;)

Uh, if you were doing this at school that way your DESERVE to not pass your exams.
You at least:
- rename all variables, registers, functions, macros
- you mix the code a little up, so the program flow is a little different
- you still rewrite some portions of the code.

Nothing like this happened. "some portions of xvid code" means 99%, it's just copyright violating CVS snapshot of XviD from earlier this year with the copyright notice changed and a "Author: David Xand"(or whomever) as a blatant lie attached to _each_ function. That is so cheap. And poor Ken doesn't really notice that he's fooling the wrong side of the public. People who mailed Sigma in that case for sure have reliable sources to checkout for themselfes that it's an obvious _lie_ from him.
Sorry, but you can't lead and run a business that way. At least here they don't teach you to do stupid things like that at university... Time to let Sigma learn.

looks to me like they removed their proprietary SLA everywhere.. what I haven't checked so far (another family gathering and they're already expecting me) is if the source code contains proper copyright notices now.

Uh, let's try a new source download... but I expect them to be as foolish as all the time - why should they remove "their" copyrights from "their" codec?

Well. At least they crippled XviD that much that it's sure performing bad and noone wants to use the sigma xvid derivate ;)

Best regards,
Koepi

[mikemikez]

Problem is that Sigma Design just don't care. They will not be harmed by anything the XviD people do, not even if it's on CNN.

Something I still don't get about the whole XviD project is why the hell they made it into and kept it into a MPEG4 codec.
That puts so many very drastic restrictions on this codec.
Besides that, by supporting MPEG4 XviD basically supports companies that will do anything to legally close down anything for their benifit.


Mike

[Koepi]

we already had "don't feed the troll".

Please respect that :)

[mikemikez]

Originally posted by Koepi
we already had "don't feed the troll".

Please respect that :)


Please explain?????


Mike

[mustaneekeri]

Did i understand right that the Sigma allready has licensed their codec to Envivio?
If so they are making profit with it, how can they make it GPL?

[mikemikez]

GPL doesn't say one can't make profit with the project using other GPL software... Just as long as they release their source too and the authors are credited.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Mike

[MfA]

Envivio is unlikely to want to have to open source all their products which link in the codec.

Thats why Sigma wants to claim copyright over all the source, a copyright owner can still license source code under any license he wants even after releasing it under the GPL.

Michael or any of the other major contributors could hurt them, in court that is. That is always a risky venture of course, maybe they could pass on the copyrights to FSF ... but I have to wonder how far the FSF would be willing to push this issue, given that the project is blatantly patent encumbered and as such not a very good example of free software (its undistributable under the GPL).

As for how much sense it makes to remain MPEG4 compatible ... if they had not done that and XviD had become popular there would be a good chance people would have been sued for contributory infringement eventually (if they had based the codec on the existing MPEG-4 code that is).

[Doom9]

seems that there are still source files where Sigma tries to claim sole authorship so the issue is definitely not off the table yet.

[mikemikez]

Originally posted by MfA

As for how much sense it makes to remain MPEG4 compatible ... if they had not done that and XviD had become popular there would be a good chance people would have been sued for contributory infringement eventually (if they had based the codec on the existing MPEG-4 code that is).

Naaa, divx 3.11 is a MS hack and basically the same structures as MPEG4 too.

Basically, I think both major MPEG4 codec makers are not smart for using their talent within boundaries made by the MPEGLA.
XviD could have been the coolest totally freely distributable codec out there you know...
DivX Networks are basically very stupid. They are a very commercial company willing to do anything to make a buck but their core product is legally totally dependant on MPEGLA. Now that is doing stupid business!
In the end they will be begging the MPEGLA to use DivX MPEG4 implementation to use in major hardware contracts and give them some small change for it....

Mike

[temporance]

Originally posted by mikemikez
DivX Networks are basically very stupid. They are a very commercial company willing to do anything to make a buck but their core product is legally totally dependant on MPEGLA. Now that is doing stupid business!

No, not stupid. For DXN, it's a lot harder to do business with hundreds of individual patent holders than to negotiate with a body that can wholesale all necessary licenses.

If it doesn't work out then they could cut out the middleman (MPEGLA) and go direct to the patent holders.

The compliance / non compliance thing is a non issue. If DivX (or other industry leader) was propriatary then DivX would very soon become exactly like MPEG, perhaps with DXN as the license wholesaler instead of MPEGLA.

The crux of the matter is that the video patent pool is vast and it is impossible to keep you feet dry.

[MfA]

Without an open standard a lot of the professional users would have stuck with MPEG-2 ... and the patent pool participants would have had more reason to try to bleed the consumers a little more too.

[vorbis]

I'd also say its a lot easier to build a codec around an existing standard than start from complete scratch (i.e. all the theory behind it) The hardest projects in college are the ones with the vagues titles.

It seems Sigma are now acting like it was a great gesture on their part to release the source code.

[mikemikez]

Anyway,

The whole MPEG4 thing bothers me a lot. All the efforts in the commercial codec world are a total waste of energy and in the end will make people pay for thin air! And if that's not enough in their way to dominance they spy on you and even try to make you pay for stuff that could easily be free to all. This is exactly what's wrong in the whole world of ever larger companies. You can see it everywhere, companies trying to build another layer into some big stream of money and protecting it by stupid patents. There are no gunshots but this absolutely is pure mafia practice and the worst thing is that no value is added to anything.

Why can't there be a non-profit company going for total media format dominance? And wouldn't such a company and it's products gain enormous popularity if they would posisiton themselves as the only fair media solution around? I mean, loads of webmasters will do free banners for such a company and the whole world will soon know that it's the only way to go. And all you need for this is a team like the people currently working on XviD, some marketing guru's, a lawyer or two and a strong community like XviD allready has.

Mike

[Jon Ingram]

Why can't there be a non-profit company going for total media format dominance? And wouldn't such a company and it's products gain enormous popularity if they would posisiton themselves as the only fair media solution around? I mean, loads of webmasters will do free banners for such a company and the whole world will soon know that it's the only way to go. And all you need for this is a team like the people currently working on XviD, some marketing guru's, a lawyer or two and a strong community like XviD allready has.

Mikemikez, meet Xiph (http://www.xiph.org). Xiph, meet Mikemikez.

They already have Vorbis, so patent free audio is covered. On2 have recently donated a complete patent grant on VP3 related patents, so VP3 is going to be the basis of their next project - Theora: patent-unencumbered video (patent-free is the task for Tarkin, which is probably at least 5 years from completion).

Join us on #vorbis,#theora,etc. on irc.xiph.org.

[twistee]

This may seem a bit off-topic...but since sigma pretty much copied xvid code..has anyone tried the codec and does it look like the output that xvid would give...? sorry if this seems like a stupid question...

[mikemikez]

They already have Vorbis, so patent free audio is covered. On2 have recently donated a complete patent grant on VP3 related patents, so VP3 is going to be the basis of their next project - Theora: patent-unencumbered video (patent-free is the task for Tarkin, which is probably at least 5 years from completion).

Join us on #vorbis,#theora,etc. on irc.xiph.org.


Sorry to sound so negative but ON2 VP3 will not get you there.
Using VP3 means building a market for On2 to exploit. They will always stay 2 steps ahead and eventually will use Xiph's popularity to sell licenses for their latest codecs and solutions which they will market as "even better than Xiph"...

5 years is a bit long, isn't it? By that time on-demand video devices will be in the homes of millions.

Why not get some smart people together and use XviD as a source for further devellopment?

Oh, and talking about home entertainment... What about a Linux Media Center distribution with much stricter hardware requirements for increased stability, ease of use and hardware-like operation? Would not take long before companies start selling hardware kits for it, I guess... Man, wouldn't that be cool, a nice hifi-look media box with a shiny pinguin on it? ;) Yeah, one of those really solid cases like a marantz amplifier for instance! (You could even fund the complete project by doing some MS like contracts with hardware manufacturars)
You have to move to the livingroom too you see, otherwise whatever you do won't mean anything. As soon as these legally closed multimedia devices are in many livingrooms anything on the net will follow whatever closed or open formats it's using...
I recently witnessed a true Windows XP activation procedure with a friend of mine.... Damn, that made me shiver, how sick will we let it all get? Next stop is the livingroom, can you imagine the concequences?


Mike


LOL

Look it's here allready..:)

Click here to see the new Linux Media Player (http://members.home.nl/mike9648/lmp.jpg)

[Jon Ingram]

Using VP3 means building a market for On2 to exploit. They will always stay 2 steps ahead and eventually will use Xiph's popularity to sell licenses for their latest codecs and solutions which they will market as "even better than Xiph"...
Well then, it sounds like both Xiph and ON2 have got an exceptionally good deal.

Why not get some smart people together and use XviD as a source for further devellopment?
Because MPEG4 is in patent hell. The whole point of Xiph's work is to develop solutions which require *no* licensing to use *at all*. The code's even under a BSD-style license, to make it more attractive to large businesses (MS could quite easily take the Vorbis code and use it in WMA10, and as long as they mentioned the fact somewhere in a buried readme, it'd be fine).