Nullsoft Streaming Video format

[MxxCon]

check out what i found on betanews today
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail.php3?fid=1029496396

Nullsoft (Streaming|S as in Soft) Video
NSV is a new video format. It is designed to be easily streamed, support any audio and video codec, and be usable on nearly any platform. Currently NSV utilizes MP3 for audio and VP3 for video. Support for more codecs will be added soon.
http://www.nullsoft.com/nsv/
could it be the solution to all our problem?;)

[Emp3r0r]

Wow, i tried it out but got choppy video playback, even when streaming it from the hard drive. Looks promising.

[Rasi]

hmm, if this works like shoutcast, it would mean you need a machine that is fast enough to encode whatever content to vp3 at least in real time... well, i certainly couldnt :)

i will give it a look tho

[phrentec]

good stuff if it works as easy as shoutcast but how is it that some people are able to encode stuff from their tivo to the encoder while it is still playing on their TV.
Also I'm not sure if vp3 works like divx5 where there are options to encode at the fastest( near realtime) speed or the slowest but I am assuming that if your computer can't handle realtime encoding to vp3 then the codec will just sacrafice quality to keep up with the speed.
And also couldn't nullsoft include xvid (also open source) into their streaming container just as easily? i mean why not?

[BlackSun]

Originally posted by phrentec
And also couldn't nullsoft include xvid (also open source) into their streaming container just as easily? i mean why not?

Because they would have to pay the royalties to the MPEG-LA for each decoders downloaded, plus a few cents per minute streamed. :o

Edit: AOL is not supporting Nullsoft as much as before, beside the in-fight between Justin Frankel and Brennan Underwood (WA 2.x vs WA 3.x). AOL has started to work again on AOLAmp and will not use the winamp core anymore for their AOL crap.

Edit2: their "NSV encoding tool" is FlaskMPEG + a plugin they coded to output NSV...

[slavickas]

they support vp3 and vp5 (check winamp's plugin dir for dll dekoder). there was vp5 live stream from tivo. but i don't understand why they don't use vorbis, mp3 @56k sound simply terrible :angry:

and i don't think all streams are live they probably have somethink similar to real's slta

[Sirber]

vp3 is free, vp5 isn't.

[slavickas]

Originally posted by Sirber
vp3 is free, vp5 isn't.

nothing new to me :D
but i said they distribute (at least with 2.9) vp5 decoder

btw wtf :) is vp6?
http://rss.com.com/2100-1025-996790.html?type=pt&part=rss&tag=feed&subj=news

[Sirber]

I think VP5 is still beta. Why VP6 then?

[slavickas]

Originally posted by Sirber
I think VP5 is still beta. Why VP6 then?
lol vp5 was beta about 1 year ago

[phrentec]

i don't think all streams are live

I know of one nsv stream that was comming out live from shoutcast and that was http://lsac1-0-s01.shoutcast.net:8020/;cnn.nsv . I knew it was live (or close to being live as in a 2 minute lag) becuase it was playing CNN once and in the morning CNN puts a little watermark type thing showing the current time and it was two minutes off on the real time (via the windows clock on the bottom right hand corner). and that person was serving through a tivo in vp5, i also recall that vp5 was made for set top boxes so is it possible that the tivo has a built in vp5 encoder?

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by slavickas
but i don't understand why they don't use vorbis, mp3 @56k sound simply terrible :angry:

They will use AAC too (you can find the AAC decoder in Winamp2.91 plugin dir) and, if rumours are correct, even AAC+.

Nullsoft knows what's good. :D

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by BlackSun
Because they would have to pay the royalties to the MPEG-LA for each decoders downloaded, plus a few cents per minute streamed. :o

Non. After lots of bitching from Apple, MPEG-la agreed on not charging streaming fees for MPEG4.

[BlackSun]

Originally posted by rjamorim
Non. After lots of bitching from Apple, MPEG-la agreed on not charging streaming fees for MPEG4.

thx, I didn't know that

[Atamido]

Originally posted by rjamorim
After lots of bitching from Apple, MPEG-la agreed on not charging streaming fees for MPEG4. Do you have a reference on that? This isn't a confrontational question, just informational.

[robUx4]

Better if you say it before ;)

[DaveEL]

Originally posted by phrentec

And also couldn't nullsoft include xvid (also open source) into their streaming container just as easily? i mean why not?


If you get the nsv plugin developer kit it has the source for an xvid plugin They just dont do xvid binaries the same way xvid.org don't.

DaveEL

[phrentec]

Ah cool, so does that mean if someone encodes a nsv with their version of xvid and streams it, that the winamp 2.9 player will already have support for it with an xvid decompressor?
ok well i guess it's time now for either Nic Koepi or uManiac to come out with a new form of a xvid binary, the one for the nsv.
thanks.
regards.

[DaveEL]

You need a copy of the nsv xvid plugin to decode it but it works with standard xvid binaries for the encoder/decoder itself as i remember so no need to change the currently releases, you just need the nsv plugin to glue them together.

DaveEL

[avih]

Originally posted by Pamel
Do you have a reference on that? This isn't a confrontational question, just informational.

i second that. never heard about it... how do u know? or is it just for apple?

[DaveEL]

Ok i compiled (after a bit of hacking nullsoft seem to have left out one of the needed header files but i managed to work out what they were supposed to leave in :) ) the xvid plugins for nsv i included the sdk readme as well as it tells you where to put the dlls

http://daveel.leffe.dnsalias.com/nsv_xvid.zip

Also this is untested as flask refuses to start on my machine.

DaveEL

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by DaveEL Also this is untested as flask refuses to start on my machine. DaveEL ... LOL ... you dont know what you're missing Dave :D !! ...

[phrentec]

okay i put the dll's into the nsv encoder(flask) directory, wait but first you have to note that the file sizes of the dlls are pretty dmn small, and it doesn't show up in the nsv output configuration window under "video format:". I attached a screen shot of it. If someone else please try it out. you can find the nsv tools(flask) here
http://www.nullsoft.com/nsv/

http://www.geocities.com/phrentec/ss/nsvnoxvidinstngs.htm

[DaveEL]

they should be very small as they don't do much they just call the vfw xvid codec. I did get them to appear in the config window using the command line encoder with the /config option but i think it only showed up if you press the little button in the bottom right corner of the main config dialog. If they won't show up give me another shout and ill try to work out whats wrong (im guessing they need from visual studio .net 2003 dlls)

DaveEL

[DaveEL]

Ok i poked around with process explorer and im guessing your missing a copy of this dll.

http://daveel.leffe.dnsalias.com/msvcr71.dll

put it in your windows/system(32) directory and i think it should work.

DaveEL

[phrentec]

that link didn't work but i was still able to get msvcr71.dll thanks to dc++. i put it into the directory and it worked sure enough XVID\VFW shows up under "video format:". thanks for the help!

edit: ok it encodes properly but now the problem is that winamp2 won't play it, it buffers to 99% and then just halts with no video displayed.

[DaveEL]

hmm
1) where did you put that dll you got you need it to be found when you load the decode plugin too. so if you put it in the nsvtools directory it needs to go in the directory which you put the decoder plugin
2) i assume you have put the decode plugin in program files\common file\nsv and/or the winamp\plugins directory?

DaveEL

[wing1]

@DaveEl,

There is no such directories for either program files\common files\NSV and/or WinAmp\plugins. I've to create them and wimamp will open and play only sound! No Video at all.

[DaveEL]

You MUST have c:\program files\winamp\plugins directory, winamp doesn't work without it.

DaveEL

[DaveEL]

Ok i just managed to test the plugins (used the batch encoder) and for me they work even if a little slow. So i guess those having problems need to 1) put msvcr71.dll in windows/system(32) directory 2) put the decoder plugin in your winamp plugins directory 3) put the encoder plugin in the nsvtools directory.

DaveEL
(now i just need a NSV directshow filter so i can use the format in a better video player)

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by DaveEL (now i just need a NSV directshow filter so i can use the format in a better video player)

LOL .. to use the word 'just' in combination with making a working DirectShow filter for a new container format is close to some form of hybris Dave ;) ..... believe me, we can sing a song about this mate ...

[DaveEL]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
LOL .. to use the word 'just' in combination with making a working DirectShow filter for a new container format is close to some form of hybris Dave ;) ..... believe me, we can sing a song about this mate ...

:) i know and its made even harder by the fact that although nsv "is designed to be easily streamed, support any audio and video codec, and be usable on nearly any platform." nullsoft don't seem to have published any documentation on the format, i guess by "nearly any platform" they mean any platform nullsoft decides to port winamp to. Besides whats nsv good for with matroska being released in 3 days anyway :).

DaveEL

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by DaveEL Besides whats nsv good for with matroska being released in 3 days anyway :). DaveEL

:D ... well, there is no winamp plugin for matroska yet ... LOL !

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by Pamel
Do you have a reference on that? This isn't a confrontational question, just informational.

i second that. never heard about it... how do u know? or is it just for apple?

Sorry, only noticed your question now.

From the AAC licensing authority site:
http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4aac/licenseFAQ.html#AACBitStreams

[satori]

Now It is possible to make and streaming AAC audio NSV file.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150039

I want to change nsv to avi or mkv format without re-encoding.
I can demux NSV file by using demux.exe in the NSVTools.
But demuxed video stream is not avi file,It is raw video file.
It can't open by virtualdub.
Does anybody knows how can I change raw video file to avi file?

[mdog]

Originally posted by rjamorim
Sorry, only noticed your question now.

From the AAC licensing authority site:
http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4aac/licenseFAQ.html#AACBitStreams

Actually, there would be an MPEG royalty involved if NullSoft used an MPEG-4 video codec, such as xvid. Although I think you're right about AAC, that is only the audio codec. You can read more about this in the link below. Hope this is helpful 6 months later. :)

http://www.mpegla.com/mpeg4v/m4v_qa.html