VBR Probs in VirtualDub AND Nandub

[Doctoree]

HI,
I have a question and I havent found an answer to it on the whole Doom9 Sites.
When I produce 2 cd movies with gknot (and vbr mp3) and i try to split them for 2 cd's in Nandub or VirtualDub the vbr warning screen apears in both progs.
After splitting these movies the first cd is absolutely ok but the second disc crashes when i play it with official divx player.
So my question is:
How to split a 1,4 GB DivX 5 VBR MP3 into 2 700MB parts without a total "destroyed" audio on the first or second disc and in sync.
Remember I cant use both Nandub and Virtualdub ( for splitting I used the guides available at this page).
Perhaps I can make special settings oder you can recomend another software for doing that.
Thanks in advance
Doctoree

[jggimi]

You are already aware that VirtualDub can't be used for this step.

But..Nandub should not be giving you a warning. At least, I've never experienced it.

You've made sure that both audio and video are set to "direct stream copy" ?? Of course you have.

There is a more automated splitting tool that uses Nandub -- in case there is a setting that needs to be overridden -- called AviSplitCalc. You might try it. I use it for more accurate size splitting, but it might also clear a setting if something is wrong in your Nandub config, or, if you're missing a step in your procedure.

Click on http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/SupportUtils/avisplit.zip

[Doctoree]

HI,
Thank you, jggimi, for your answer.
I have already tried this little AviSplitCalc tool but it seems not to work with Avis with VBR sound.
I set direct stream copy in audio and video ,yes.
I don't know I this VBR warning window appears in Nandub but the results I get are horrible as I allready said above.
So is there realy no way to split my GKNOT produced vbr avis into t files without a bad second disc.
I wonder why no other person is having this problem in both progs, because my system is fast, well configured and very reliable.
I hope someone may give me a hint.
Thanks
Doctoree

[Mac Sidewinder]

I've used avisplitcalc on vbr avis with no problem. I think your prob is with nandub directly (since splitcalc uses it also). Try uninstalling nandub, remove any registry entries and reinstalling it. Good luck.

Mac

[Doctoree]

HI,
I have uninstalled Nandub und tried it with this kind of gui called avisplitcalc.
But the problem is the same:
first CD: Is ok, Sound in sync (also after zipping around the slider in the movie)
second CD: exackt the same as disc one but when zipping around in the movie with the slider, the movie is playing properly but the sound is again beginning at the start of the second cd and mysterious windows like: "cant initalise applikation" or "not enough virtural memory" (I have 512 mb samsung ddr ram and 100gigaz barracuda ata 4 hdd ;) appear.
Note that the file i like to split (1400mb) is playing absolutely properly even at the end so this audio prob is adedd by nandub for sure.
Puh, I hope we find an answer otherwise I would not be able to zip around in the second part of Lord of the Rings
Doc

[theReal]

Have you muxed the VBR mp3 and the video in Nandub or VDub?
VDub also can't mux VBR mp3 and video correctly, you need Nandub for both, muxing and splitting.

[geocapital]

Try this.

Open the whole file with V-dub. If the delay is not much, save it again to a new file.
So you have the whole movie with CBR.
Split it afterwards. It should be ok.

If the delay is much, then maybe you can change interleaving a little, save it again and then split it.

Hope it works.

[Doctoree]

HI,
@thereal
ich have produced this avi with gknot, and Im pretty sure it uses Nandub for muxing audio and video automatikally.
But as I said above: the big 1,4 gb monster file gknot gives me is absolutely correct the problem is that after splitting it, the sound in the second disc is screwed up.
@geocapital
I know that this wayit's working, but to be honest i think it must be possible without such a bunch of steps.
Doc

[alexnoe]

You can try AVI-MUX GUI.

Version 1.07 has still a bug concerning audio delay setting,
here is 1.08 http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/AVI-Mux_GUI-1.08-ENG.exe but there is still an issue with audio streams shorter than the video (already fixed, but only in a german pre-release. I plan some more stuff, such as repairing some bad headers, e.g. malicious frame rate values created by programs whose author didn't know what he's doing, such as AVIfrate)...just try it.

[Doctoree]

HI,
@alexnoe
I have tried this program as you advised it to me.
After spliting the avi I got the following messege when opening it with the divx player:
Runtime Error
DivX Player 2.0 Alpha.exe
abnormal program termination
perhaps i did the wrong settings in the gui ?
I loaded the avi into it
options make rec list was marked only nothin else
audio interleave was 75 and peload was 500 perhaps thats wrong (the divx file i try to split is ther german version of lord of the rings
Perhaps you know what i did wrong.
Im german so using the german prereales would not be a problem for me
Perhaps you could post a download link or send it directly to me as a email to Doctoree@web.de perhaps it solves this problem.
thanks doctoree (Im gräfdig gloner from cdfreaks forum)

[alexnoe]

You can of course also get german version.

I get crashes from divX-Player now and then... I don't use it at all. I only use BS-Player.

http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/Pre-release/

It only fixes one issue:
If you load an AVI which contains non-frame-based audio or audio which is stored in chunk larger than one frame (MP3-CBR, PCM-Audio, divX-Audio etc, but NOT mp3-vbr) and if then the audio stream is marginally shorter than the video, AVI-Mux GUI 1.08 crashes.

But I haven't got an invalid file with AVI-Mux GUI for some time (besides open-dml with > 3 audio streams :confused:).

Maybe it's really the divX Player...

[Doctoree]

HI,
ok I have downloaded the BSPlayer and the German Pre Realese software.
I have tested BSPlayer, now the Sound is working properly alse when zipping around in the movie BUT there is no picture the window is simply only black and in fullscreen mode its only black too with green horizontal lines ( a green block) at the bottom of the screen.
Note that I have downloaded the latest BSPlayer version from Doom9.
I have allso problems with DivX files in Windows Media Player the screen is unsteady (i gues 10 frames forward and 5 back again and then again 10 frames forward.... the whole movie) this is why i normaly use the official divx player. My computer is very fast by the way.
I heope you know how to solve this problem in BSPlayer.
Thank you very much
Doc

[alexnoe]

Please load input and output file into AVI-Mux GUI, call the information menu (right-click onto the corresponding avi file in the box) and make one screenshot of each (AVI-Mux GUI 1.09 will support storing it to a file)

Then please use VirtualDub Hexeditor to extract the first 64 kByte of the input and the output file and send it to me via email, so I can find out if there are errors in the header of one of the files.

Usually BSPlayer and MediaPlayer must also work with divX, so there might also be a misconfiguration of your system if it often malfunctions.

You can also download the ffdshow filter. It is a decode filter for divX 3, 4 and 5. Maybe this one works.

[Doctoree]

HI alexnoe,
i have done that stuff.
I have not found your e-mail anywhere please send you adress to Doctoree@web.de that I can send you the following files:
input.jpg outputcd1.jpg outputcd2.jpg and those hex editor files
Keep in mind that the super file (1400mb) is properly working and the first of the 2 700mb parts TOO, BUT the second 700-mb-part screws when played. And with bsplay ALL files's audio works properly allso after zipping around but there is NO picture
Thanky for your help
Doc

[geocapital]

Sorry to interfere again, but it seems that the problem gets more complicated than I expected. So, I propose that, instead of trying all these things, why don't you just save it again with N-Dub to a new filename, and then try to resplit it. Or if this doesn't work, open it with V-dub, save it again, so it becomes CBR and split it then.

I think it's rether simple...

Usually, when I mux video and mp3 -CBR- with Nandub (even if it sees it as VBR),I reopen it afterwards with V-dub, to save it again as CBR.

Hope it'll work, anyway.

[alexnoe]

You kill the VBR headers? Why? You'll get asynchronous replay if you seek in the file then, unless it is indeed CBR!

[theReal]

I have tested BSPlayer, now the Sound is working properly alse when zipping around in the movie BUT there is no picture the window is simply only black and in fullscreen mode its only black too with green horizontal lines ( a green block) at the bottom of the screen.BSPlayer offers two methods of video overlay - I also have to set it to number 2 to see the picture.



open it with V-dub, save it again, so it becomes CBR and split it thenWhat do you mean "so it becomes CBR"? It only becomes CBR if you recompress the audio to CBR mp3 - but then you should better compress the source audio to CBR in the first place.

Also, when you mux CBR mp3 with Nandub, it doesn't become VBR. The menu in Nandub says "(VBR) mp3" - the parentheses mean that it can, but does not have to be VBR. Re-saving the file in VDub will only waste your time.

[geocapital]

I don't say it becomes VBR or CBR afterwards.
It is already something and N-dub or V-dub sees it as VBR or CBR relatively.

Usually, I encode in CBR. I mux with N-dub and when I open the avi with V-dub, it says some things about the sound, that I don't remember, which I think have to do with this inconvenience, i.e. N-dub sees it as vbr. Saving again with V-dub corrects it.

I resave it with V-dub only when I need to process the avi, not just to save it or when the avi is a little larger than I wanted because, it saves me some space when I resave it with V-dub. And I have no delay at all. Even if I had, it's easy to correct it.

[alexnoe]

This only works properly for CBR files.

AVI-Mux GUI can detect MP3 CBR and will make CBR headers if you want to.

CBR saves space because MP3 VBR is stored on MP3 frame base, i.e. 24ms per chunk => 150,000 chunks per hour and stream => 3,4 MB additional overhead per hour and stream.

For a 2h-film with 3 languages, this means 20 MB additional overhead...and even more, if you make Open-DML with legacy index.

CBR can be stored in large chunks up to some seconds and can therefor reduce the audio overhead. If you make one chunk for 100 video frames (which works fine), you can reduce the overhead for the audio stream by about 99.3%.

BTW: Your file gets even somewhat smaller if you use AVI-Mux GUI, select Open-DML and NO legacy index. This will decrease the overhead by 33%, but I can't promise that every player will read it, and microsoft only released Open-DML specs 6 years ago, so they didn't manage to write a properly working DirectShow read filter for it.

[Doctoree]

HI
@theReal
If I set this option to MODE2 the video again plays but is async with audio or gets async after zipping around in the video, in short words, its srewed up again.
@alexnoe
I just sent ya an email
Doc

[alexnoe]

What I forgot:

divX 5 uses B-Frames which are not allowed in AVI-files. This could be a source of trouble.

Do you continue to have this problem with standard divX 5 decoder as well as with ffdshow (http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Filters/ffdshow-20020617.exe) decoder? Standard divX 5 decoder doesn't work here either.

The datail info of your files look fine (btw: current pre-release can now store the detail info to a file). The sum of chunks in the dest files is equal to the chunks in the source files for each stream, so no data was dropped.

If it gets asynch after zipping around, then usually the average data rate in the header is wrong, but it's ignored for mp3 vbr and can't be a source for trouble.

The number of audio chunks in your files is also ok (with 25 fps and 48 kHz mp3 vbr it must be exactly 15/9*number of video frames).

You forgot the first byte in the "input" file you sent me, but it is an "R"...

Your input file has the AVIF_HASINDEX and AVIF_ISINTERLEAVED flag set, while output has AVIF_HASINDEX and AVIF_MUSTUSEINDEX set, but not AVIF_ISINTERLEAVED. I never saw any negative consequences due to this, but you can try setting the DWORD beginning at 0x2C in your output files (and which is 30 00 00 00) to 10 01 00 00. The VirtualDub Hexeditor can do this.

I hope I don't have to make options which flags to set in AVI-Mux GUI. But if this is the problem, then I will...but first try using ffdshow!

[Doctoree]

HI,
is there a way to make CBR and not VBR Audio with GKNOT
and is there a way not to use those B-Frames mentioned by alexnoe with the DivX5 GKNot combination.
When I untic bi-directional encoding in GKNOT under Options in the Main window, are then the B-Frames deactivated or is this option something different. ( I know what bi-directional encoding is but perhaps B-Frames is only the abbreviation and means the same)
That would be cool
@alexnoe
I dont exactly know what I should do now (out of your last post)
I must do something with the Hexeditor but what exactly andy how to do this. (I dont know how to save the first 64 kByte of the code for example I dont find the option for doing this)
doc

[alexnoe]

You can make CBR audio in entering the same value for minumum and maximum bitrate.
But I'm absolutely sure that MP3 VBR is not your problem.

It must be divX 5 which causes your trouble. A "B-Frame" is a bidirectionally encoded frame.

As I have already written in a former post, the VirtualDub Hexeditor can do exactly what I want you to try. Just uncheck the "schreibgeschützt öffnen"-checkbox when opening the file.

You don't know how to save the first 64 kByte? The mail you sent me included the beginning of the file. It were not exactly 64 kByte, but this doesn't matter.

In my opinion, all your headers look fine. I'd say divX5 or B-Frames are your problem.
Why do you use divX5 at all, instead of divX4 with quantizer set to 2-3...i don't see any advantage of divX5 over divX4

[theReal]

is there a way to make CBR and not VBR Audio with GKNOT Just enter "--alt-preset cbr 128" in the expert parameters field for LAME

[Doctoree]

HI,
thanks thereal for the info
@alexnoe
Ok because you are very sure that VBR is not the problem.
I reencode the DVD raw material with gknot,vbr, divx 5 (with all of its cool features like psycko visual enhancments) but without bi-directional encoding ?
Ok I try this tomorow
I hope divx5 without b-frames will not end in bad quality.
Doc

[Doctoree]

HI !!!
Ok, I reencoded the whole Lord of The Rings with the DivX5 Pro features but WITHOUT B-Frames (wich is the same as bi-directional encoding)
I have splitet the 1,4gb file into 2 parts with the newest version of AviMux gui
Results:
The video allways jumps a few frames forward and backward when playing with mediaplayer.
With official DivX Player, the player crashes.
And with BSPlay its working properly !!!!!

This is good but i wont to run it with divxplayer and it crashes whilst the original 1,4gb is able to been opened and shown properly.
I dont understand this. AVIMUXGUI must be demaging anything in the 2 splits because they cause the official player to crash.
OK, I hope alexnoe reads this ;)
Doc

[alexnoe]

Of course I read this. Mail notification is activated!

Now I'm confused. I'm not clear as to what AVI-Mux GUI could damage, besides the dwFlag values which could differ, but which are not invalid.

Don't try to play VBR audio in Media Player. Usually, it should only run asynchronously (instead of jumping around), but one never knows...

Unfortunately, I have no chance to investigate this because the original divX player doesn't work here at all :@ (always crashes, with every file, also files created with VDub)

[theReal]

Don't try to play VBR audio in Media Player. Usually, it should only run asynchronously (instead of jumping around), but one never knows... Do you mean VBR audio alone, or video with VBR audio? I'm asking because I always play video with VBR audio in Mediaplayer 6.4 and it's always perfectly in sync.
I'm having problems with VBR audio in BSPlayer, though...

[alexnoe]

It shouldn't play VBR alone or VBR audio in a movie correctly...

It will be in sync as long as you don't scroll through the movie, but Media Player seems to use always the avg data rate to calculate the dest position (which causes crap for VBR).

It should be out of sync as soon as you scroll through the movie. If it still is in sync, then M$ might have added VBR support...

[theReal]

It should be out of sync as soon as you scroll through the movie. If it still is in sync, then M$ might have added VBR support...It is still in sync after a lot of scrolling (I've hardly ever used another player for Divx)

[Doctoree]

HI,
I think I have the latest version of M$ media Player (with WinXP).
It stays in sync also after ziping around to the end of the movie and also after watching a few minutes.
BUT the video is teribly jumping a few frames forward and backward again (keep in mind that i have a fast computer)
I now think about generaly changing to BSPlayer since its working with this player.
But
1. Why are the divx developers including that "illegal" bi directional shit into their pro-codec
2. would making a video without the bi-directional feature cause in bad quality than with this feature

If the answer to the second question would be "NO" I think i would change to BSPlayer.
Another question: thereal wrote that when you write altpresetcbr128 into gknot cbr audio is produced.
But under "Bitrate" in the main window only vbr could be selected, how to tell the calculator to take cbr.
I ask this bacouse perhaps with cbr I kan normaly split it with VirtualDub without crashing when playing after the spliting.

Doc

[alexnoe]

Why are the divx developers including that "illegal" bi directional shit into their pro-codec

Because it usually works...just as VBR, which isn't "legal" in an AVI file either. They only want to get the best out of their algorithms.

would making a video without the bi-directional feature cause in bad quality than with this feature

Bidirectional encoding can't improve the max achievable quality, but it can reduce the bitrate that is necessary for the same quality.

An increased bitrate should be able to compensate for this, if it occurs (unless the codec is buggy of course).

There is no MP3 CBR standard or the such. A MP3 CBR file is just a VBR file without changes in bitrate.

A MP3 files consists of consecutive MP3 frames. A frame plays 24 millisec for 48 kHz-frames (and about 26,1 millisec for 44,1 kHz frames), and has one bitrate, one frequency etc.
For VBR files, other frames may have other frequencies (shouldn't, but can), other bitrates or even another number of channels.
For AVI files, only the bitrate may change, otherwise the seeking algorithm would fail.

If you use CBR, then VirtualDub should be able to split it.

If you save the MP3 file as an extra file, then AVI-Mux GUI can recognise it as CBR and can make CBR headers if you want to. Please try that...i'm interested in the results.

[Doctoree]

HI,
thanks for the info on bi-directional encoding.
There is no MP3 CBR standard or the such. A MP3 CBR file is just a VBR file without changes in bitrate. :
Thats nothing new for me ;)
With VBR MP3 on some scenes in the movie were there is only a litle
audio vbr "uses" a bit less of memory and later when its more important to have mor than for example 128 kbits it has more that it can take: that causes in better quality with the "same" bitrate.

DivX 502 Pro is bugfree I think. (This is also why I prefer DivX and I not take this new Windows Encoder Beta)

A MP3 files consists of consecutive MP3 frames. A frame plays 24 millisec for 48 kHz-frames (and about 26,1 millisec for 44,1 kHz frames), and has one bitrate, one frequency etc.
For VBR files, other frames may have other frequencies (shouldn't, but can), other bitrates or even another number of channels.
For AVI files, only the bitrate may change, otherwise the seeking algorithm would fail. :

I have never looked so closely into this ;)
( Im a typical begun-with-easydivx-and-now-using-expert-software-for-expert-rips guy ;)

If you use CBR, then VirtualDub should be able to split it.:
Yes thats also nothing new, but with cbr I waste bandwith since it uses 128kbits also when they are not needed on silent scenes of the movie (you know that)(vbr is better quality)

I think I take the old way in the future to make divx movies.
I use vbr audio in combination with divx5 features like bi directional encoding. Why? For me quality is worth not to be allowed to zipp around in the movie.

I try what you said above:

If you save the MP3 file as an extra file, then AVI-Mux GUI can recognise it as CBR and can make CBR headers if you want to. Please try that...i'm interested in the results.

But I need a bit help:
Wich kind of MP3 should I make (vbr?)
With or without bi-directional encoding ?
And how to say must this be done in AviMux

Thank ya
Doctore

[alexnoe]

DivX 502 Pro is bugfree I think.

Then this would be the only existing bugfree program.

Wich kind of MP3 should I make (vbr?)
With or without bi-directional encoding ?
And how to say must this be done in AviMux

VBR should work.
Try with and without bidirectional encoding.
Simply load the AVI source file and the MP3 source file into AVI-Mux GUI.

BTW: Someone found a bug as to MP3-CBR files. They were not recognised being CBR sometimes. This has been fixed in the newest pre-release.

I don't know if there are any options in gknot or the such to select this, because I don't use it. I just use the SmartRipper -> DVD2AVI -> VFAPI -> VirtualDub-way to create video and audio files separately.

[Doctoree]

OK,
thanks for the info I'll try it in the next days.
Doc