Red Violin - Mixed NTSC/FILM

[colebert]

I'm trying to back this up to DVD-R. It shows up as 53% FILM and 47% NTSC. The first four minutes are NTSC then goes to FILM then back to NTSC and so on until the end.

I've seen jdobbs have a similar problem with ST:TNG. I'm busying using DVD2AVI w/o ForceFilm on. Now I'm running this AVISYNTH script in CCE:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("d:\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\lain.d2v")
Telecide()
Decimate(mode=1,threshold=50)

And its going at .8xx speed (I'm used to 1.27 on my P4).

Anyone have any success stories with this title? Am I going about this the correct way?

If the MPAA was smart they'd make all their non DVD-5 releases this mixed and they wouldn't have to worry about copy protection so much.

-Cole

[jdobbs]

Those settings seem to give the best results. It works well on movies that were originally done as film -- but then encoded as a mixed bag... But the telecide process sure slows it down.

With ST:TNG it appears that most of it was originally shot at 24fps, but some sequences (e.g. the ending credits of the first episode) seem to have been originally done as interlaced fields and really look awful...

jdobbs

[colebert]

Thanks for the feedback jdobbs.

The single-pass step completed in 2.5 hours. I went into the multipass advanced settings, tweaked it some then had a peak at it in my player. It didn't look like "ass" so I'm assuming it worked alright. Now i've got the multipass running so we'll see how that goes.

I certainly hope I don't run into a lot of movies like these, it really slows my productivity down. If 32 Short Films About Glenn Gould (another Girard flick) is like this i'm not gonna be a very happy camper.

[colebert]

Ok. I completed my operation and ran pulldown.exe w/o any switches. The result is a 2h 43m M2V but the audio and the movie is only 2h 11m. What did I do wrong?

Also, I load the post-pulldown file into DVD2AVI and it shows a constantant flipping back and forth between Progressive and Interlaced. So constant that you can't make out clearly one or the other because its constantly switching.

-Cole

[colebert]

Ok, let me make it really easy to help me. Here's what I think the problem is:


I did not run pulldown with the switch to just take the progressive frames, therefore it is giving me this problem. A simple yes or no from a more experienced member would be greatly appreciated.


-Cole

[jdobbs]

I can tell you the constant flipping is normal for a file that has been run through pulldown.

As for the time... try multiplexing the two. I've found that .M2V files that are standing alone often indicate incorrect times in media player.

[colebert]

Ok. I successfully made a copy of Red Violin. Here's what I did for future people who don't want the headache:

DVDDecrypter 3.1.2.0
DVD2AVI
CCE 2.50
DVDMaestro
IFOEdit


I ripped the DVD using DVDDecrypter. I stream processed out the DTS Audio track leaving just the 6ch 5.1 DDS stream which I demuxed to an .AC3 file. I also demuxed the Mpeg-2 stream to an .M2V file.

I opened the M2V in DVD2AVI and turned ForceFilm off. THen I saved my project. 53% FILM - 47% NTSC.

I used the following AVS script in CCE 2.50:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("d:\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\lain.d2v")
Telecide()
Decimate(mode=1,threshold=50)
resampleaudio(44100)

The "resampleaudio(44100)" keeps your computer from crashing since there is no audio (as its just the M2V stream). FYI: Some say only Athlons need this line, but my P4 1.7 crashed like a champ without it. Also, make sure you are using a pagefile as I also got another crash relating to not having one.

I set CCE Video settings to:

Add Sequence End Code
Upper Field First
Linear Quantizer scale
DVD Compliant
Luminance: 16 to 235
Intra DC precision: auto
Aspect ratio: DAR 16:9
Time code: 00:00:00:00

I set CCE GOP settings to:

M=3
N/M=4
SEQ Header=1
all unchecked

I set CCE Quality settings to:

Image Quality Priority: 5
Anti noise filter: unchecked

Quantiziation factor and bitrate settings:

Q:60 Min:0 Max:9500

Also, Audio File unchecked.


I then ran the single pass encode. I maxed out at .8X encode which took 2h 30m. Then I just followed doom's guide for the multipass encode. The resulting file was a Pure NTSC 29.97FPS file. I didn't run pulldown on it and imported the AC3 and the new M2V into Maestro. Plugged in the chapters manually and spit out the VOBs. Burned it to a DVD-R and the quality is excellent.

Mission Accomplished. I guess what I did wrong before was use pulldown on the post-CCE file then delete the post-CCE file prior to checking the post-pulldowned file. That was a senseless slaughter of 6 hours. My pulldown settings were probably what was wrong. And FYI, EasyRecovery won't recover a 4GB file you erased.

Anyone got a suggestion on what switches I should have used in pulldown for in this operation?

-Cole

[guboogi]

just a question about pulldown, why didn't you have to use pulldown if it's an NTSC movie? so when exactly do you use pulldown and when do you not?

btw - congrats on making a great copy of red violin. :]

[colebert]

As I understand it, Pulldown is supposed to turn a FILM 23.97FPS movie into a 29.97FPS which is whats required to playing on American TV and DVD Settops. Since I already had 29.97FPS I guess I didn't need a pulldown. Don't get me wrong, if I was competent enough to understand the switches i'm sure pulldown would have been useful because I ended up typing all the chapter points back into Maestro.

Maybe a more senior member could clairfy/correct me, as necessary.


-Cole

[jdobbs]

Sorry, I must have been half asleep when I looked at your script. Yes, mode 1 does no actual decimation and you stay at 29.97. This is what ended up using for ST:TNG:

Telecide()
Decimate(cycle=5)

It gives you a 23.976fps output. As I said, it works well everywhere but the credits of the first episode.

jdobbs

[colebert]

Is there a disadvantage to what I did? It plays fine in the player and looks good. Is FILM 23.97 better than pure NTSC 29.97?

Thanks for the help.

-Cole

[jdobbs]

If the original source was in 24fps (most movies for example), it is better to renencode using FILM (at 23.976) either through DVD2AVI (from a DVD) or using DECOMB (especially useful when you captured from a native field based source like directly from TV that has a FILM embedded in it). A lower frame rate means fewer pictures to encode, which in-turn means more bits can be allocated to each frame, resulting in a higher quality picture at the same bitrate.

But... If the original was created as 29.97 field based video (not a film converted to video) -- it will almost always look terrible and should be encoded with the method you used.

jdobbs