796MB on 80min CD-R (XCD)

[Emp3r0r]

I've been making lots of rips lately and finally today I sat down to actually start burning the files to disc. I found out the hard way :( that you should aim for about 796 meg video file to completely fill a disc without worry of having to overburn. You may fit up to 798 if you are lucky, but most likely no 800 meg video file will fit on a XCD. So there goes about 15 rips that can't be cropped to fit... oh well. Hope no one else makes this stupid mistake.

PS: my last one was 797meg OGM file converted to 807meg BIN file to overburn cd that showed 808megs 80:04.74 mins

update: just got one up to 810megs 80:13.26 mins

Damn Koepi you wuz right about 798meg file fitting with overburn... can we get a 796 split point in oggmux? ;)

[Cokes]

Originally posted by Emp3r0r
I've been making lots of rips lately and finally today I sat down to actually start burning the files to disc. I found out the hard way :( that you should aim for about 796 meg video file to completely fill a disc without worry of having to overburn. You may fit up to 798 if you are lucky, but most likely no 800 meg video file will fit on a XCD. So there goes about 15 rips that can't be cropped to fit... oh well. Hope no one else makes this stupid mistake.

PS: my last one was 797meg OGM file converted to 807meg BIN file to overburn cd that showed 808megs 80:04.74 mins

update: just got one up to 810megs 80:13.26 mins

Damn Koepi you wuz right about 798meg file fitting with overburn... can we get a 796 split point in oggmux? ;)
And who cares...? So make overburn... TDK Reflex 80 - max overburn 82:30, Verbatim DataLifePlus 80 - 81:58... and so far and so on? Did anybody know any 80 CD-R which can't be overburned minimally to a 81 min?

[Emp3r0r]

i wasn't aware most could goto 81mins, i'll try some bigger files right away

[Koepi]

I'm glad it still works for you :)

I could overburn some noname media as well, but with them you have to be carefull, they sometimes can't get higher than 79:59mins... (that's why they get thrown out as nonames ;) )

Regards,
Koepi

[soulfx]

Thanks for giving some info on some real life tests, I've been capturing, doing backups and encoding like crazy, but haven't had the time to actually test burn a XCD yet.

I did read the little readme and it stated the the theoretical max of an 80 min cd to be 798 and also stated it needed about 1meg to write the iso bridge, so I figured I would be looking at about 797 megs to mess with. Then to be on the safe side I always shot my target size to be around 796 because most times when a MB reading is taken from really large files they fail to include in those .5 or whatever megs.

Those little 1/2 Megs can be fine with just one file, but when you got a whole TV series lined up (about 4-6 eps/ disk) those little .5's add up to whole megs that can easily turn your target total filesize over by a couple megs.

So... Anyways thanks for reconfirming my calculations :)

Rock on XCD!

[Emp3r0r]

I managed to get about 7 XCD's made and 2 out of the seven would crash any player I tried playing them in. I also copied the file off the disk and converted it to the orignal file, which played fine. Something isn't right, but at least the data is recoverable. Beware.

[soulfx]

The XCD DirectShow filter probably just needs some tuning as that's what would seem to be causing the crashes if everything work's okay once converted back.

Was there anything that would set those two apart from the other's that may hint as to what would be causing the problems?

[kxy]

Might be a problem with your CDRs or your playback device(cd rom, burner, etc). I over-burn to about 820mb, and all of them plays fine.

[avih]

i've already heard of cases in which the filter won't play a file, while dat2file will create a playable file. as said, the filter might need some fine tunning. i'm aware of it, and will try to improve the filter in the next release.

cheers

[MaTTeR]

@avih

I've seen the issue a few times lately also. Let me know if you need a build tested when you get time to update.

[avih]

i will :)

[Emp3r0r]

what specific things should I look for when trying to find differences between working XCD's and those which crash filtergraph?

They are all created using same method: ogm file to .bin file, burn with nero, all using same media. File sizes differ only. [edit] and volume names

Is there a problem with padding zero's on?

PS: sorry for slow reply, be back next week

[soulfx]

If you have some extra CD's around you can try altering settings when creating/ burning your CD's to see if it clears up the issues.

Since Nero just burns the BIN file you could try downloading cdrdao and using that to create a "real" mode2 form2 cd and see if that clears up the issue (nero won't create an correct m2f2 iso bridge).

[int 21h]

Originally posted by soulfx

Since Nero just burns the BIN file you could try downloading cdrdao and using that to create a "real" mode2 form2 cd and see if that clears up the issue (nero won't create an correct m2f2 iso bridge).

AFAIK, in the latest versions, Nero creates correct images, however, you are correct that in previous versions it would create invalid TOCs and the like. But, that has been fixed, AFAIK.

(Anyway, burn a bin with CDRWIN, burn a bin with NERO, then image them both again and you'll see they are 100% identical) :)

[Ughie]

i always mount the image with deamon tools and do a "cd copy" from that virtual drive, works fine for me, never had any trouble.

[Hajime]

I have playing with XCD and Cd-r 99 media, and no problems with bin images even at 99:37 minutes, so it's possible to fit 999MB of data in a single XCD.

The CD plays fine on my asus cd-s520/A. No read errors.

Very good if you want to rip a very long movie like 'The Godfather' (2:55:15).

I just wanna share my experiences.

[Holomatrix]

Are you guys talking about burning an MPEG-2 as a SVCD? or burning a 800 meg DivX? I saw somewhere about some program that you can burn 800 MEG data on a 80 Min CDR. Trying to find the program now.

[crusty]

Found out the hard way as well.....I guess I gonna have to encode mad max 2 again. :mad:

Well, fortunately that means I can now use undot, newer xvid builds and without lumi masking. I can turn on all the chroma options, use a better custom matrix, edit the stats for those VERY few scenes I just wasn't satisfied with, and redo the start and end credits with higher compression matrices and gmc.
It's gonna be the best 1 CD mad max 2 rip you're ever gonna see..:D :D

[dillee1]

My little chart about cdr capacity and burning mode. I Don't use mode2 on 80min CDR as it is meaningless if u have 99min handy :-)

Hard limit that a CD-R blank can hold, with ISO9660 level 1 file sytem.

______80 99
mode1 720 880
mode2 --- 1020

Save limit(The limit that data readback is granteed).

______80 99
mode1 710 870
mode2 --- 1010

[kxy]

My little chart about cdr capacity and burning mode

Why bother with a chart. Dext already has a very informative chart on how much you can burn and what type of burners works. See his readme that came with the software.


Dext,
I got my hands on a HD-BURNer, would xcd support HD-BURN? It seems that not only it will burn with smaller pits but the new RSPC (Reed-Solomon Product Code) error-correction system is used rather than the CIRC (Cross-Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code) system used. Which means it reduces the number of sample in the error correction part.

[DeXT]

Originally posted by kxy
Dext,
I got my hands on a HD-BURNer, would xcd support HD-BURN? It seems that not only it will burn with smaller pits but the new RSPC (Reed-Solomon Product Code) error-correction system is used rather than the CIRC (Cross-Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code) system used. Which means it reduces the number of sample in the error correction part.
I haven't got accurate technical details about the HD-BURN format, but if it's just a matter of smaller pits and CIRC->RSPC (which is located at a lower layer than ECC/EDC) everything should be OK, as the higher-level protection (ECC) should be untouched from the software point of view.

So there's a big chance that it will work (provided the media used has enough quality). In case the max Mode1 capacity for these is 1400 MB, you could then burn up to 1588 MB using Mode2 sectors ;)

Anyways a real-world test is needed to ensure it works (I'm afraid can't go further with so little available information).

[Atamido]

Personally, I have higher hopes for the new Plextor Premium (http://www.plextor.com/english/products/Premium.html) drive that uses GigaRec. It fits about a gigabyte of data on a CD, with ECC, and it is readable in a regular CD drive.

While the HD-Burn disks will hold a full 1.4GB, they will only be readable in DVD drives, and then only if you get a firmware update. Lets face it, most drives are never going to get that update, and so you're going to have a pretty limited number of drives you can play it on.

[Emp3r0r]

Since this thread popped back up I'll give an update. Alas, I can no longer overburn without getting a SCSI error on two different IDE burners (happens before things start), but the last 15 or so XCD backups I've made all work perfectly fine on at least 3 different readers. Rock on XCD!

Personally, I have higher hopes for the new Plextor Premium drive that uses GigaRec. It fits about a gigabyte of data on a CD, with ECC, and it is readable in a regular CD drive.

This sounds like a good reason to buy a new CD-burner / DVD combo. Some real life experiences with GigaRec would be nice to hear about. Anyone used it already?

[kxy]

GigRec violates the Orange Book specification, the standard that defines rewritable CDs, first announced in 1990.

My HD-BURNer is fubared, I am waiting for a replacement. Will report the result of a 1588mb on one 80min once I got it.

[Atamido]

It may violate it, but most CD drives are designed to be tolerant of such things. Sadly, I lack the $127 to purchase one and try it out.

[kxy]

Here are some comments on GigREC

The "GigaRec" Tab is one of my personal favorites. Using Plextor's GigaRec technology allows you to overburn a regular 700MB CD to hold up to 984MB (Mode1) and 1116MB (Mode2). Plextor claims that CD's that are burned using their GigaRec technology may not be able to be read in other Optical drives. I tested this out, and discovered that a CD overburned to 99min will indeed be read flawlessly in any drive that supports reading 99min CD's. I tested this out in a BenQ 56x CDROM, LG 16/48 DVD ROM, and a AOpen 16/48 DVD ROM. All were able to complete Nero's CD Speed with any disk 99 minutes or less.

Read the whole entire review here:
http://www.benscustomcases.com/reviews/plexpremium/index.htm

[Atamido]

@kxy: Thanks for the excellent linkage. Answered a couple of questions with that right there.

[kxy]

notice this gigaRec, writing at 4x max , and burn proof will be off

The official gigaRec plextor explanation.
http://www.plextor.be/english/pdf/PlextorGigaRec.pdf

Another site. Use Babel fish
http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/premium/premium.htm

[cooper99]

Hi kxy, I read your post about fubared hd-burner. which one did you purchase? Optorite dd0203? This is what I have in my pc. I was able to burn regular cds (700mb) with no problem. Haven't tested the DVD option. However, I'm having a problem running HD-burn using B's Recorder Gold5 software. Maybe there's a problem reading certain cdr media. What do you think? I get this error everytime I use HD-burn option in Mode 1.

This is the error I get:
An ATAPI error occurred.
Hardware error.
< Error No : 51040904 >

Software doesn't allow me to burn with HD-burn in Mode 2. What software were you using?

Does Nero support, or more importantly, allow you to burn using HD-burn? I have Nero 5.5.10.28 Enterprise, and there's no indication there that it allows you to HD-burn.

[kxy]

Cooper99,

I see you double posted. So I will just answer your question here.

I had purchased the Optorite dd0203. After I enabled the HD-burn in B's Recorder, I will get the same error as what you said. You can also try latest nero, there is an option you can chose HD-burn, you should select that in the start, from the menu of music-cd, vcd, data cd, etc. scroll down you will see HD-burn. Try that, some user has report success with it.


Because this burner is in such a high demand, the store I order it from told me I have to wait 2-3 weeks to receive another one. Therefore I ordered a Plextor Premium instead. So far I being using the 1.4x gigaREC(1115 mb on mode2form2 DAO single track which takes about 40 minutes or so to burn without burnproof), and it plays fine on plextor drive. But it will not play on any other dvd or cd rom drive that I owned, which is expected. I also have burn some 99min mode2form2, and those will play on the normal drives. But sometime it will output a garbage frame or it will stuck on a certain frame while the audio keeps on going. So when burning a cd close to 99min(985mb mode2form2), it will have a random factor, sometimes it will play fine, sometimes it will not play fine on a normal drive. Play back is perfect on a plextor premium however.

[BloodyRipper]

well, well, i red something about 796mbs on 80-mins cds...there's a solution...you can see it on www.cdrinfo.pl, sorry, only in polish...

[cooper99]

It happens that Optorite released an update firmware for their DD0203 drive. I had flashed my drive since then, and can't tell what has changed. I still can't write with hd-burn. I am constantly getting "track following errors" with three different medias (Khypermedia, Memorex, and Pine), using Nero 5.5.10.35. Has anyone successfully written their cdr's using hd-burn and could you share your experiences with us? Does the Optorite DD0203 have its own set of drivers, instead of what microsoft detects and uses.