XviD-01082002-1

[Koepi]

Iago,

it sounds like your avisynth script isn't correct. XviD has no "green line" bugs or even pink blocks floating around, those problems derive from anywhere else. I'm certain with this, my encodes look pretty good.

[iago]

@Koepi,

Thanks for the reply and your support. I'll try encoding again after I check the avisynth script. You're absolutely right; all of these are really really weird. It's the first time I encounter such problems, and I'll do the encode again with the same first pass and second pass settings after I check and correct the avisynth script.

Best wishes,
iago

[BiaTch 5.0]

Koepi do you want results for any movies?, here is The Hole PAL/interlaced/field/neutral bicubic;

First Pass

6.Ultra High
H.263
lumi mask
Max I-frame interval: 300
Min I-frame interval: 6 (forgot)
No Hinted ME

Second Pass

6.UltraHigh
Modulated
Lumi mask
Min-Max I-frame quant: 2-6
Min-Max P-frame quant: 2-16
Alt Curve off

DebugView analyzer for XviD codec v0.8 by MoonWalker
e-mail : s_ilias@gmx.net


Quantizers Analisis
---------------------

Quantizers Used For Movie :
------------------------------
Quant 2 Used : 6525 Times, Percentage Used : 4.65%
Quant 3 Used : 106678 Times, Percentage Used : 76.04%
Quant 4 Used : 26594 Times, Percentage Used : 18.96%
Quant 5 Used : 441 Times, Percentage Used : 0.31%
Quant 6 Used : 44 Times, Percentage Used : 0.03%
Quant 7 Used : 10 Times, Percentage Used : 0.01%
Quant 8 Used : 1 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Average Quantizer Used for Movie : 3.151

No credits encoding!!

MPEG Quantization Type Used 113203 timed, Percentage Used : 80.69%

H.263 Quantization Type Used 27090 timed, Percentage Used : 19.31%

Quantizers prevented from rising too steeply 180 times


Intra-Frame (Key-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 1210 Times, Percentage Used : 95.65%
Quant 3 Used : 51 Times, Percentage Used : 4.03%
Quant 4 Used : 4 Times, Percentage Used : 0.32%

Credits
---------

Inter-Frame (P-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 5315 Times, Percentage Used : 3.82%
Quant 3 Used : 106627 Times, Percentage Used : 76.69%
Quant 4 Used : 26590 Times, Percentage Used : 19.13%
Quant 5 Used : 441 Times, Percentage Used : 0.32%
Quant 6 Used : 44 Times, Percentage Used : 0.03%
Quant 7 Used : 10 Times, Percentage Used : 0.01%
Quant 8 Used : 1 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Credits
---------



Frame Analisis
----------------

Number Of Intra-Frames (Key-Frames) : 1265
Number Of Inter-Frames (P-Frames) : 139028
Total Number Of Frames : 140293

0.90% of the Movie is Intra-Frames (Key-Frames)
99.10% of the Movie is Inter-Frames (P-Frames)



Size Analysis
----------------

1-Pass Size : 1181303681 Bytes or 1153616 KBytes
Scaled Size : 755348954 Bytes or 737645 KBytes
Actual Size : 755359714 Bytes or 737655 KBytes
Compressibility : 63.94%
Quality of XviD avi : 63.48%

[iago]

@Koepi,

I found that the problem was indeed due to the avisynth script, in fact arising from simple resize, though I dunno why.

First, I checked my current avisynth script in Vdub, and the green bar was there at the right side of the screen. Then I produced the avisynth script again (with the same resoluion and using simple resize again, checked it one more time, and the green bar was still there.

When I generated the avisynth script with the same resolution but with neutral bicubic this time, everything was OK and there was no green line.

Then I encoded a small part of the movie using the new avisynth script with neutral bicubic. Ffdsow filter displayed no problems and the pink blocks were happily gone :).

I guess it's pointless to discuss the simple resize-avisynth issue here in this thread, and it's nice to have the main problem solved.

Time to head for another two pass :).

Many thanks and best regards,
iago

[MoonWalker]

@iago

There __WAS__ a known bug with simple resizer,but trbarry has corrected it..Browse the avisynth forum to find the new version

MoonWalker

[cult]

thats right,with the old simpleresize had to be multiple of 4.
The new version is fixed.When using simpleresize alwyas check with the preview button.It will show u if the green line is there.Its that simple.

[iago]

@MoonWalker

Thanks a lot. I've updated it. Also thanks for the new DebugView Analyzer v0.9 for Xvid that provides info about the consecutive I-frames :).

iago

[trbarry]

Both input & output of SimpleResize now only have to be multiples of 2 pixels, but I only fixed it a week or two ago. Please get the newest copy and let me know if there is still a problem.

www.trbarry.com/SimpleResize.zip

- tom

[iago]

@trbarry

Thanks a lot. I've updated it again :).
I've just checked it and there were no problems (no green line) at all.

Best regards,
iago

[trbarry]

I've updated it again

iago -

Actually my comment above was a crossed post. ;)

But I"m glad it works now.

- Tom

[Gannjunior]

@Koepi
I'm going to do Platoon. Have you got any "experimetal" settings you want to test to give me for this film?So I could post the results after the encoding.In particular, could I try,about the alt. curve,an high -low distance of 500-90 ?

thx

[ookzDVD]

@Koepi,

I want to confirm that the _line_ bug has gone since I use
the 05-08-2002 build (with PMVFast enabled). ;)

Btw, I just saw the CSV

7.8.2002 01:20:
U vfw/src/codec.c (rev.1.23) Isibaar:
- use advanced diamond for quality 5 and square search for quality 6


...what do you thing ?



@trbarry,
...thanks for your _simpleresize_ but I hope someday it will no
restriction (div 2) ;).... but it's just kidding ;)


Thank you.

[Koepi]

well, the code inserted by isibaar an foxer is "mine" since i don't have CVS write access.

And for platoon - try hitting "load defaults" while you're passing by it. Set search precision=6.

Regards,
Koepi

[ookzDVD]

@Koepi,

sorry, I don't know if it's you ;)
thank you for the fast action ;)

[iago]

@Koepi and all

This time, xvid really did its magic! :D The quality is pretty good and really impressing.


05082202-1 build test (redone) results:

Fight Club (2:19)
640*272
Neutral Bicubic
Aimed Video Size: 624000 kb

1st pass:

UltraHigh
H.263
Max-Min I-frame interval: 300-1
Lumi masking enabled
No Hinted ME


2nd pass:

UltraHigh
Modulated
Max-Min I-frame interval: 300-1
Lumi masking enabled
No Hinted ME
Min-Max I-frame quant: 2-6
Min-Max P-frame quant: 2-16
AltCC: Low/225/75 (here, i cheated a bit :))
All the rest with default values


DebugView analyzer for XviD codec v0.9 by MoonWalker
e-mail : s_ilias@gmx.net


Quantizers Analisis
---------------------

Quantizers Used For Movie :
------------------------------
Quant 2 Used : 3543 Times, Percentage Used : 1.81%
Quant 3 Used : 112670 Times, Percentage Used : 57.48%
Quant 4 Used : 76830 Times, Percentage Used : 39.20%
Quant 5 Used : 2923 Times, Percentage Used : 1.49%
Quant 6 Used : 51 Times, Percentage Used : 0.03%

Average Quantizer Used for Movie : 3.404

Quantizers Used For Credits :
--------------------------------
Quant 31 Used : 4187 Times.

MPEG Quantization Type Used 120400 timed, Percentage Used : 60.14%

H.263 Quantization Type Used 79804 timed, Percentage Used : 39.86%

Quantizers prevented from rising too steeply 0 times


Intra-Frame (Key-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 3 Used : 2230 Times, Percentage Used : 90.76%
Quant 4 Used : 214 Times, Percentage Used : 8.71%

Credits
---------
Quant 31 Used : 13 Times, Percentage Used : 0.53%

Number Of Consecutive I-Frames : 184

Inter-Frame (P-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 3543 Times, Percentage Used : 1.79%
Quant 3 Used : 110440 Times, Percentage Used : 55.85%
Quant 4 Used : 76616 Times, Percentage Used : 38.74%
Quant 5 Used : 2923 Times, Percentage Used : 1.48%
Quant 6 Used : 51 Times, Percentage Used : 0.03%

Credits
---------
Quant 31 Used : 4174 Times, Percentage Used : 2.11%



Frame Analisis
----------------

Number Of Intra-Frames (Key-Frames) : 2457
Number Of Inter-Frames (P-Frames) : 197747
Total Number Of Frames : 200204

1.23% of the Movie is Intra-Frames (Key-Frames)
98.77% of the Movie is Inter-Frames (P-Frames)



Size Analysis
----------------

1-Pass Size : 1198214458 Bytes or 1170131 KBytes
Scaled Size : 634170511 Bytes or 619307 KBytes
Actual Size : 634263604 Bytes or 619398 KBytes
Compressibility : 52.93%
Quality of XviD avi : 58.75%


so long,
iago

[rui]

Sorry to be a little OT, but if i am not mistaken, since now EPZS is disabled, there isn't any diferences between Koepi's and uManic's builds, correct?

[ookzDVD]

@iago,
Glad to hear your result ;)
...so I think it's time for me to rip Lord Of The Ring into 1CD ;)

@rui,
I think so, now only Nic's build use the EPZS.

[BiaTch 5.0]

@Koepi, should we be using, AltCC low/high 500, or off?.

[soulfx]

@BiaTch 5.0, I don't think there is anything wrong with Alt CC so there shouldn't be any reason to disable it. But I'll let Koepi answer that one.

I did another run with SPR with the latest Koepi build and get some new results. I also made sure not to close Dbgview this time.

Same settings as before, just with the latest build:
http://members.cox.net/soul.fxpro/sprtest/compare.htm


DebugView analyzer for XviD codec v0.10 by MoonWalker
e-mail : s_ilias@gmx.net


Quantizers Analisis
---------------------

Quantizers Used For Movie :
------------------------------
Quant 2 Used : 1474 Times, Percentage Used : 0.63%
Quant 3 Used : 25517 Times, Percentage Used : 10.96%
Quant 4 Used : 94258 Times, Percentage Used : 40.47%
Quant 5 Used : 84567 Times, Percentage Used : 36.31%
Quant 6 Used : 25072 Times, Percentage Used : 10.76%
Quant 7 Used : 1921 Times, Percentage Used : 0.82%
Quant 8 Used : 107 Times, Percentage Used : 0.05%
Quant 9 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Average Quantizer Used for Movie : 4.483

No credits encoding!!

MPEG Quantization Type Used 26991 timed, Percentage Used : 11.59%

H.263 Quantization Type Used 205927 timed, Percentage Used : 88.41%

Quantizers prevented from rising too steeply 0 times


Intra-Frame (Key-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 3 Used : 1 Times, Percentage Used : 0.06%
Quant 4 Used : 1608 Times, Percentage Used : 89.53%
Quant 5 Used : 16 Times, Percentage Used : 0.89%
Quant 6 Used : 171 Times, Percentage Used : 9.52%

Credits
---------

Number Of Consecutive I-Frames : 150

Inter-Frame (P-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 1474 Times, Percentage Used : 0.64%
Quant 3 Used : 25516 Times, Percentage Used : 11.04%
Quant 4 Used : 92650 Times, Percentage Used : 40.09%
Quant 5 Used : 84551 Times, Percentage Used : 36.58%
Quant 6 Used : 24901 Times, Percentage Used : 10.77%
Quant 7 Used : 1921 Times, Percentage Used : 0.83%
Quant 8 Used : 107 Times, Percentage Used : 0.05%
Quant 9 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Credits
---------



Frame Analisis
----------------

Number Of Intra-Frames (Key-Frames) : 1796
Number Of Inter-Frames (P-Frames) : 231122
Total Number Of Frames : 232918

0.77% of the Movie is Intra-Frames (Key-Frames)
99.23% of the Movie is Inter-Frames (P-Frames)



Size Analysis
----------------

1-Pass Size : -112135463 Bytes or 4084796 KBytes
Scaled Size : 1550470785 Bytes or 1514131 KBytes
Actual Size : 1550470913 Bytes or 1514131 KBytes

Usefull Statistics
------------------
Compressibility : -1382.68%
Relative Quality of XviD avi : 44.62%
Absolute Quality of XviD avi : 92.55%

[Marc FD]

@soulfx
i must say it's a good idea to reencode it (to see if XviD is bugfree)
BUT i think your encode would be more, more valuable if you could use EXACTLY the same settings than doom9. resolution & size is very important. If you would do that i would really enjoy to compare XviD to others codecs (if you gives snapshots like the first time)
but if the resolution is not the same and you use XCD, you can't compare at all, it would be ugly cheating.

Could try to encode a reference encode ? (with doom9-like settings) Just if you have time to spend of course (i don't haveSPR :( )

[Koepi]

Hm, but to be fair you should use my latest build, I put it online now as it works like charme for me (hehe, well, in fact it's already in CVS ;) ).

XviD-06082002-1:
- Advanced search modes, helping quality.
- Further GUI cleanup (MV hints file box properly dis/enabled).

It's the same search mode used back with EPZS for search precision 6, this is important.
Search precision 5 needs some research so, if it's faster, better, both of that, none of that.

Regards,
Koepi

[Peters]

Koepi, you go too fast.
Are you working day and night? :)

Congratulations for your (very) nice work

[Marc FD]

lol :)

@Koepi

you used PMVFast^2 with advdiamond for motion search 5, right ??
if you've done so, i think i would make some tests
(on small clips, because of my lack of CPU-power)

it would be great to directly compare EPZS^2 and PMVfast^2 with the same build. It would gives good reference results.

Could you fast confirm? Thx.

[Koepi]

it would be great to directly compare EPZS^2 and PMVfast^2 with the same build. It would gives good reference results.

Could you fast confirm? Thx.

you can compare EPZS^2 and PMVfast^2 now when using a build with corrcted luma masking code and EPZS activated vs. the 06/08/02 build.

I hope this is what you want to have confirmed.

But as reference results? Well, not really. EPZS isn't correctly implemented, period.

Regards,
Koepi

[Marc FD]

no, no : using ONE build only

Originally posted by Koepi

It's the same search mode used back with EPZS for search precision 6, this is important.
Search precision 5 needs some research so, if it's faster, better, both of that, none of that.


sm 6 : EPZS^2 and other generic stuff (1/2pel,ect...)
sm 5 : PMVFast^2 and other generic stuff (1/2pel,ect...)

right ?? (that was wy i need to be confirmed)

i know EPZS is buggy (gruel claims it often enough ;) )
BUT we must admit it sometimes does magic !

when i say ref encode i want to say something serious :cool: with the same protocol and just a PMVfast/EPZS trigger.
so i need ONE build :)

If not it would be kind to send me the CVS. i would compile the stuff myself :cool:

[Koepi]

Nope, I don't have any EPZS code activated in that binary.

I just changed search precision to include different approaches.

[Marc FD]

Originally posted by Marc FD
If not it would be kind to send me the CVS. i would compile the stuff myself :cool:

EDIT : i don't need XviD.ax at all, right ? (don't have M$DXSDK )

EDIT2 : I don't want to disturb you and i'll try to load it myself.

Keep working :)

[iago]

Yes, Koepi is really fast :).

So I'm going for another test encode with the new 06082002-1 build, this time with (hard to compress!) Natural Born Killers (114 min), 640*352, neutral bicubic, 2CDs (with AC3 sound), aimed video size: 1102000 kb.

first pass:

ultrahigh
h.263
no lumi masking
no hinted ME
credits: 31 quant
all the rest default


Considering to use modulated quantizers, altCC with Low aggression/High300/Low100 (rest untouched), and capping Min-Max I-frames 2-4 and Min-Max P-frames 2-8, with no lumi again, for the second pass. Comments for the (prospective):) second pass settings (maybe regarding automatic strength, etc.)?

(I disabled lumi masking for this test to see the visual difference in very dark/very bright scenes (especially the dark ones) compared to when it's enabled. Sometimes I can't help feeling that too many bits are shaved off these scenes when it is enabled :))

Thanks in advance,
iago

[MaTTeR]

@iago

H.263 for a 2CD rip? Hrm..that might be a little soft on my eyes but I see your using Neutral Bicubic so maybe it is sharp enough.

@Koepi

This is certainly one of the better builds I've used in a long time in my opinion. Actually, I'm using a build that Acails compiled with the latest CVS but he enabled EPZS(PMVFast^2 moves a little too much on static backgrounds for me). So far I've only done a few 1CD rips today using the defaults with a payback rate of 500. I've yet to see one macroblock in any of the bright or dark scenes using lumi-masking in both passes at an average bitrate of 885kbps. Motion Search 6 used of course:) Great work man!

Edit- Modulated both passes and MVH wasn't used.

[Marc FD]

Some preleminary results of my tests :
EPZS wins 2% when there is much movement (over your Q6 setting)
but loose 10% speed (30 fps down to 27)
anyway, you say Q5 should be tested. i think it's because of ADVANCEDDIAMOND16, right ?
if so, disabling EXTSEARCH16 is really not fair :)
adv. diamond rocks ! especially ADVANCEDDIAMOND8 against HALFPELDIAMOND8
i will do more test on more cuts (crazy action, very calm)
I should add all my test are ONLY done on anime.

@MaTTeR
>PMVFast^2 moves a little too much on static backgrounds for me

what ?? maybe EPZS^2 is better than PMVFast, but if you test it seriously, you'll see that EPZS ME is overestimating movement (and is better when there is alot of movement)

[Koepi]

well, you demanded it, so here we go:

XviD-08082002-1:
- Added a scene change detection threshold control.
- Trying EPZS(^2) motion estimation algorithm again.

(modified sources vs CVS are included, and I forgot to set the special build correctly ;) )

@Marc:

do you think I should swap around the flags a little more? ;)

Regards,
Koepi

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Marc FD

@MaTTeR
>PMVFast^2 moves a little too much on static backgrounds for me

what ?? maybe EPZS^2 is better than PMVFast, but if you test it seriously, you'll see that EPZS ME is overestimating movement (and is better when there is alot of movement)

Marc,

The 2 movies I encoded today were low motion for the most part. I can't tell you how refreshing it was to not see pictures on walls moving or frames jumping:D However, I haven't tried any action flix yet so I'll do that with Koepi's latest. That scene detection threshold sounds very appealing, especially for an upcoming X-Men rip.

[soulfx]

Allright, another SPR (and yes it's using doom9's settings).

Settings used are the same as doom9's for AVS script wise so if you need the settings check his comparison. The XviD settings are same as mentioned before, just with the XviD-06082002-1 build. Target size was: 1276028

http://members.cox.net/soul.fxpro/sprtest/compare.htm



DebugView analyzer for XviD codec v0.10 by MoonWalker
e-mail : s_ilias@gmx.net


Quantizers Analisis
---------------------

Quantizers Used For Movie :
------------------------------
Quant 2 Used : 2468 Times, Percentage Used : 1.01%
Quant 3 Used : 2627 Times, Percentage Used : 1.08%
Quant 4 Used : 14729 Times, Percentage Used : 6.04%
Quant 5 Used : 38842 Times, Percentage Used : 15.93%
Quant 6 Used : 62028 Times, Percentage Used : 25.44%
Quant 7 Used : 59449 Times, Percentage Used : 24.39%
Quant 8 Used : 40085 Times, Percentage Used : 16.44%
Quant 9 Used : 16569 Times, Percentage Used : 6.80%
Quant 10 Used : 5137 Times, Percentage Used : 2.11%
Quant 11 Used : 1282 Times, Percentage Used : 0.53%
Quant 12 Used : 438 Times, Percentage Used : 0.18%
Quant 13 Used : 118 Times, Percentage Used : 0.05%
Quant 14 Used : 13 Times, Percentage Used : 0.01%
Quant 15 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%
Quant 16 Used : 4 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Average Quantizer Used for Movie : 6.549

No credits encoding!!

MPEG Quantization Type Used 5095 timed, Percentage Used : 2.09%

H.263 Quantization Type Used 238696 timed, Percentage Used : 97.91%

Quantizers prevented from rising too steeply 0 times


Intra-Frame (Key-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 3 Used : 1 Times, Percentage Used : 0.05%
Quant 4 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.10%
Quant 5 Used : 3 Times, Percentage Used : 0.15%
Quant 6 Used : 1944 Times, Percentage Used : 99.69%

Credits
---------

Number Of Consecutive I-Frames : 0

Inter-Frame (P-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 2468 Times, Percentage Used : 1.02%
Quant 3 Used : 2626 Times, Percentage Used : 1.09%
Quant 4 Used : 14727 Times, Percentage Used : 6.09%
Quant 5 Used : 38839 Times, Percentage Used : 16.06%
Quant 6 Used : 60084 Times, Percentage Used : 24.84%
Quant 7 Used : 59449 Times, Percentage Used : 24.58%
Quant 8 Used : 40085 Times, Percentage Used : 16.57%
Quant 9 Used : 16569 Times, Percentage Used : 6.85%
Quant 10 Used : 5137 Times, Percentage Used : 2.12%
Quant 11 Used : 1282 Times, Percentage Used : 0.53%
Quant 12 Used : 438 Times, Percentage Used : 0.18%
Quant 13 Used : 118 Times, Percentage Used : 0.05%
Quant 14 Used : 13 Times, Percentage Used : 0.01%
Quant 15 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%
Quant 16 Used : 4 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Credits
---------



Frame Analisis
----------------

Number Of Intra-Frames (Key-Frames) : 1950
Number Of Inter-Frames (P-Frames) : 241841
Total Number Of Frames : 243791

0.80% of the Movie is Intra-Frames (Key-Frames)
99.20% of the Movie is Inter-Frames (P-Frames)



Size Analysis
----------------

1-Pass Size : 1362398975 Bytes or 1330467 KBytes
Scaled Size : 1300791847 Bytes or 1270304 KBytes
Actual Size : 1300799195 Bytes or 1270311 KBytes

Usefull Statistics
------------------
Compressibility : 95.48%
Relative Quality of XviD avi : 30.54%
Absolute Quality of XviD avi : 86.35%

[Koepi]

Thanks for testing soulfx!

But somethings very wrong. With that 1st Pass to 2nd Pass size relation you should end up with a 2+3 quantizer rip...

Doom9 was encoding credits at 15% bitrate btw., so this still is a little different :-/

Best regards,
koepi

[soulfx]

Agh! I give up. I've lost too much time doing tests. If everyone want's a Doom9 comparision, your looking at the wrong person here. The last time I checked I was SoulFX. As much as I would like to try to help I can't be a hard core tester.

I appriciate everyone's help and thank everyone for there comments and suggestions. I wish I could be of more help, but I've got stuff I need to encode.

Regrets,
SoulFX

[ookzDVD]

@Koepi,
about the 08082002 build with EPZS enabled,
is that EPZS improved or just the same like the old one ?

@soulfx,
sure, take your time, I think we don't push you that much ;)
sometimes re-encoding is very-very boring since you'll watch
the same movie, again and again.
Personally I test the build with the trailer, it's only about
3 minutes long.

[Koepi]

EPZS code wasn't touched for at least 3 months now...

[ookzDVD]

@Koepi,
Thank you for the confirmation, better I'll try to encode a trailer later.

PS. how about "the scene change detection threshold control"
any hints ? for drama movie ? for action movie ?

[BiaTch 5.0]

@Koeepi

Shoud we be using any new settings for the new build or same old.

[Marc FD]

@ Koepi :
I wasn't saying that EPZS(^2) are better : there are not !!!
full EPZS(^2) gave me the bigger filesizes !!

I'm making my tests now. You would see the results in 1/2 hours :)

[Koepi]

Well, Matrix first pass size went down for me:

PMVfast^2 1.305MB, EPZS^2 1.303MB.

It shouldn't make a difference, but I'll try second pass without MVhints this time. I'd love to see more stable, unmoving backgrounds. They're too much "on the run" with PMVfast :-/ (but still better than anything else ;) )

Regards,
Koepi

[rui]

Well, i just made a small test, using the latest uManiac’s build (PMVFast, or is it the diamond??) against Koepi’s latest build (EPZS). Both had the exact same settings (motion search 6) but in Koepi’s i choosed the new motion parameter at 65%.

uManiac’s gave me an average quantizer of 7, 071, and 138 I-frames.

Koepi gave me a average quantizer of 7,102, and 114 i-frames. This last value susrprsed me a little, because i increased the motion detection to 65, against the default (uManiac) of 50.

In the rest of the report, they both got very similar results, but koepi’s used quant 14 1 time, uManiacs didn’t used it. But 1 time isn’t significant.

Visual comparing, it was noticeable that uManiac’s build was a little more smoothed out, but the diference was very small.

[Koepi]

Well, if you'd see the tooltip coming up above the box...


it states

"percentage of intra MBs in a frame to force a keyframe".

If you set it to 66, you get less keyframes.
if you set it to 33, you get more keyframes.

Regards,
Koepi

[rui]

sorry. :(
My mistake :o :stupid:

[iago]

Natural Born Killers (114 min)
640*352
Neutral Bicubic
Aimed Video Size: 1102000 kb (2CD with AC3 audio)

First Pass:
UltraHigh
MPEG
No Lumi
No Hinted ME
the rest: default

Second Pass:
UltraHigh
MPEG
No Lumi
No Hinted ME
altCC Low/High300/Low100 (the rest untouched)
Min-Max I-frames 2-4
Min-Max P-frames 2-8

credits: 31 quant

Results:
(watchable, nice encode, in spite of the compressibility values in GKnot (first pass stats: 33.7) and DebugView Analyzer.)


DebugView analyzer for XviD codec v0.10 by MoonWalker
e-mail : s_ilias@gmx.net


Quantizers Analisis
---------------------

Quantizers Used For Movie :
------------------------------
Quant 2 Used : 709 Times, Percentage Used : 0.43%
Quant 3 Used : 17048 Times, Percentage Used : 10.22%
Quant 4 Used : 66165 Times, Percentage Used : 39.67%
Quant 5 Used : 62012 Times, Percentage Used : 37.18%
Quant 6 Used : 17216 Times, Percentage Used : 10.32%
Quant 7 Used : 2419 Times, Percentage Used : 1.45%
Quant 8 Used : 1205 Times, Percentage Used : 0.72%

Average Quantizer Used for Movie : 4.540

Quantizers Used For Credits :
--------------------------------
Quant 31 Used : 4325 Times.

MPEG Quantization Type Used 171099 timed, Percentage Used : 100.00%

Quantizers prevented from rising too steeply 0 times


Intra-Frame (Key-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 4 Used : 3454 Times, Percentage Used : 99.11%

Credits
---------
Quant 31 Used : 31 Times, Percentage Used : 0.89%

Number Of Consecutive I-Frames : 16

Inter-Frame (P-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 709 Times, Percentage Used : 0.42%
Quant 3 Used : 17048 Times, Percentage Used : 10.17%
Quant 4 Used : 62711 Times, Percentage Used : 37.41%
Quant 5 Used : 62012 Times, Percentage Used : 37.00%
Quant 6 Used : 17216 Times, Percentage Used : 10.27%
Quant 7 Used : 2419 Times, Percentage Used : 1.44%
Quant 8 Used : 1205 Times, Percentage Used : 0.72%

Credits
---------
Quant 31 Used : 4294 Times, Percentage Used : 2.56%



Frame Analisis
----------------

Number Of Intra-Frames (Key-Frames) : 3485
Number Of Inter-Frames (P-Frames) : 167614
Total Number Of Frames : 171099

2.04% of the Movie is Intra-Frames (Key-Frames)
97.96% of the Movie is Inter-Frames (P-Frames)



Size Analysis
----------------

1-Pass Size : -940936129 Bytes or 3275421 KBytes
Scaled Size : 1124271714 Bytes or 1097921 KBytes
Actual Size : 1124234895 Bytes or 1097885 KBytes

Usefull Statistics
------------------
Compressibility : -119.48%
Relative Quality of XviD avi : 44.05%
Absolute Quality of XviD avi : 92.38%

---------------------------------------------------

I'll repeat the test with 08082002 build, using H.263 for the first pass and Modulated for the second, and with lumi masking in both passes, to increase compressibility and reach a lower average quant. I'll leave the other settings as above.

iago

[Koepi]

Nice, thanks for testing iago! :)

[Marc FD]

@Koepi
when you use EPZS^2 for search16, what do you use for search8 ??

here are the results of my test :

XviD Motion Estimation test with CVS 07.08.2002 (custom debug builds)
ME used :

1 ) EPZS_16 EPZS_8 : full EPZS(^2) (EPZS is not a good choise for search8)
PMV_EARLYSTOP16 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE16 | PMV_EXTSEARCH16 | PMV_USESQUARES16 |
PMV_EARLYSTOP8 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE8 | PMV_HALFPELDIAMOND8 |

2 ) EPSZ_16 PMVfast_8 : Best EPZS(^2) (mix between EPZS and PMVfast)
PMV_EARLYSTOP16 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE16 | PMV_EXTSEARCH16 | PMV_USESQUARES16 |
PMV_EARLYSTOP8 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE8 | PMV_HALFPELDIAMOND8

3 ) PMVfast_16 PMVfast_8 : PMVFast^2 (current Q6 ME in Koepi's build)
PMV_EARLYSTOP16 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE16 | PMV_EXTSEARCH16 | PMV_USESQUARES16 |
PMV_EARLYSTOP8 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE8 | PMV_HALFPELDIAMOND8

4 ) PMVfast_16 PMVfast_8 : PMVfast AdvDiamond (Advanced Diamond)
PMV_EARLYSTOP16 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE16 | PMV_EXTSEARCH16 | PMV_ADVANCEDDIAMOND16 |
PMV_EARLYSTOP8 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE8 | PMV_HALFPELDIAMOND8

Tested on anime content ONLY.(ME is critical on amime)
test clips :
1) Full Motion (a very fast scene with motion on the entire frame) (83 frames)
2) Moves (some scenes with motion on a still background) (536 frames)
3) Travellings/Zooms (551 frames)

All parameters others than ME to defaults
source : MPEG2 / VDub Fast Recompress
Constant quant 2 encode

Results : (sizes in Ko, min/avg/max I-frame in bytes)
Quant 2 :
clip 1) Full Motion
ME# | size | min/avg/max I-frames
1) 4302 48243/52388/57950
2) 4298 48246/52352/57381
2*) 4278 47713/52106/56938
3) 4384 48760/53421/58821
4) 4382 48904/53395/58786

2* : 2) with ADVANCEDDIAMOND8 instead of HALFPELDIAMOND8. No speed hit.

clip 2) Moves
ME# | size | min/avg/max I-frames
1) 4906 2139/8908/28966
2) 4900 2104/8896/28769
3) 4902 2073/8902/28855
4) 4902 2086/8900/28768

clip 3) Travellings/Zooms
ME# | size | min/avg/max I-frames
1) 5610 1333/10106/34231
2) 5600 1348/10089/33789
3) 5612 1360/10111/33935
4) 5608 1361/10103/33833

PSNR :
The PSNR results were always very close, less than 0,02 dB difference.

Speed :
PMVfast^2 and PMVfast advdiamond are the faster
mixed EPZS 5% slower
full EPZS 10% slower

Conclusion :

the best ME in term of compression is :
EPSZ_16 PMVfast_8
PMV_EARLYSTOP16 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE16 | PMV_EXTSEARCH16 | PMV_USESQUARES16 |
PMV_EARLYSTOP8 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE8 | PMV_ADVANCEDDIAMOND8

To avoid EPZS (buggy with luma masking??), best ME is :
PMVfast_16 PMVfast_8
PMV_EARLYSTOP16 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE16 | PMV_EXTSEARCH16 | PMV_ADVANCEDDIAMOND16 |
PMV_EARLYSTOP8 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE8 | PMV_ADVANCEDDIAMOND8

08.08.2002 @15h32GMT / by MarcFD / marc.fd#libertysurf.fr (#=@)


Hope it helps :)

[rui]

Originally posted by Marc FD
To avoid EPZS (buggy with luma masking??), best ME is :
PMVfast_16 PMVfast_8
PMV_EARLYSTOP16 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE16 | PMV_EXTSEARCH16 | PMV_ADVANCEDDIAMOND16 |
PMV_EARLYSTOP8 | PMV_HALFPELREFINE8 | PMV_ADVANCEDDIAMOND8

08.08.2002 @15h32GMT / by MarcFD / marc.fd#libertysurf.fr (#=@)
[/CODE]

Hope it helps :)

So, if i got this right, this corresponds to the advanced diamond in uManiac's builds, motion search precision 5, correct?

What about motion search 6, corresponding to square search quality? I must confess that i am begining to fell a little lost here :)

[Isibaar]

@soulfx:
there's nothing wrong with your SPR results: As I told Koepi already, I also did a SPR encoding using doom9's settings and I got similar results to yours.
There seems to be something wrong with the calculated 1st pass size of the DebugView Analyzer (I guess an overflow happens). I didn't discard the first pass and so I know it was about 4 GB in reality. An average quant of around 6 for the second pass is no big surprise then...

I did yet another encoding yesterday and tried to test some things out and to tweak doom9's settings (well, basically I used MPEG quantisation and limited the p-frame quants to a range of 4-8), and this encoding seems to be a bit better than my earlier one (at least in my opinion, but you know, the MPEG<->h.263 quant choice is more or less a matter of personal taste).


DebugView analyzer for XviD codec v0.10 by MoonWalker
e-mail : s_ilias@gmx.net


Quantizers Analisis
---------------------

Quantizers Used For Movie :
------------------------------
Quant 4 Used : 24299 Times, Percentage Used : 9.97%
Quant 5 Used : 49307 Times, Percentage Used : 20.23%
Quant 6 Used : 60739 Times, Percentage Used : 24.92%
Quant 7 Used : 45236 Times, Percentage Used : 18.56%
Quant 8 Used : 64191 Times, Percentage Used : 26.33%

Average Quantizer Used for Movie : 6.311

No credits encoding!!

MPEG Quantization Type Used 243772 timed, Percentage Used : 100.00%

Quantizers prevented from rising too steeply 0 times


Intra-Frame (Key-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 5 Used : 1750 Times, Percentage Used : 100.00%

Credits
---------

Number Of Consecutive I-Frames : 0

Inter-Frame (P-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 4 Used : 24299 Times, Percentage Used : 10.04%
Quant 5 Used : 47557 Times, Percentage Used : 19.65%
Quant 6 Used : 60739 Times, Percentage Used : 25.10%
Quant 7 Used : 45236 Times, Percentage Used : 18.69%
Quant 8 Used : 64191 Times, Percentage Used : 26.52%

Credits
---------



Frame Analisis
----------------

Number Of Intra-Frames (Key-Frames) : 1750
Number Of Inter-Frames (P-Frames) : 242022
Total Number Of Frames : 243772

0.72% of the Movie is Intra-Frames (Key-Frames)
99.28% of the Movie is Inter-Frames (P-Frames)



Size Analysis
----------------

1-Pass Size : 586191439 Bytes or 572452 KBytes
Scaled Size : 1300794945 Bytes or 1270307 KBytes
Actual Size : 1300775578 Bytes or 1270288 KBytes

Usefull Statistics
------------------
Compressibility : 221.90%
Relative Quality of XviD avi : 31.69%
Absolute Quality of XviD avi : 87.07%

[AndyP]

Results for 06082002-1 build
(Sorry, I know there is a later build but these run last night)

Encoding Lord of the Rings (2h 51m)
Aiming for 1568858KB (2x850MB CD). This was supposed to include credits, but they didn't encode (argh!)
[Is this the fix by foxer in changelog on 7/8]

AVS settings:
crop(0,76,720,424)
SimpleResize(672,272)

Settings:
MPEG quant first pass
Modulated quant second pass
MinKF 1, MaxKF 250
Lumi-masking and MVHints enabled
Iframes limited to 2-3
Pframes limited to 2-8
Iframe boost 20%, Below Iframe dist. 10, bit reduction 50%
Alt CC Low aggression, High dist 200%, Low dist 50%
Credits set for fixed quant 12 with greyscale - DIDN'T HAPPEN!
All else default

Two encodes done - first with motion search 6, second with 5.

Both sized 1568976KB (no credits)

MOTION SEARCH 6 Analysis

Quantizers Analisis
---------------------

Quantizers Used For Movie :
------------------------------
Quant 2 Used : 74545 Times, Percentage Used : 30.35%
Quant 3 Used : 166186 Times, Percentage Used : 67.67%
Quant 4 Used : 4847 Times, Percentage Used : 1.97%
Quant 5 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Average Quantizer Used for Movie : 2.716

No credits encoding!!

MPEG Quantization Type Used 240731 timed, Percentage Used : 98.03%

H.263 Quantization Type Used 4849 timed, Percentage Used : 1.97%

Quantizers prevented from rising too steeply 0 times


Intra-Frame (Key-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 3347 Times, Percentage Used : 94.12%
Quant 3 Used : 209 Times, Percentage Used : 5.88%

Credits
---------

Number Of Consecutive I-Frames : 57

Inter-Frame (P-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 71198 Times, Percentage Used : 29.42%
Quant 3 Used : 165977 Times, Percentage Used : 68.58%
Quant 4 Used : 4847 Times, Percentage Used : 2.00%
Quant 5 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Credits
---------



Frame Analisis
----------------

Number Of Intra-Frames (Key-Frames) : 3556
Number Of Inter-Frames (P-Frames) : 242024
Total Number Of Frames : 245580

1.45% of the Movie is Intra-Frames (Key-Frames)
98.55% of the Movie is Inter-Frames (P-Frames)



Size Analysis
----------------

1-Pass Size : -2067523839 Bytes or 2175237 KBytes
Scaled Size : 1600604196 Bytes or 1563090 KBytes
Actual Size : 1600608464 Bytes or 1563094 KBytes

Usefull Statistics
------------------
Compressibility : -77.42%
Relative Quality of XviD avi : 73.63%
Absolute Quality of XviD avi : 97.85%

MOTION SEARCH 5 ANALYSIS

Quantizers Analisis
---------------------

Quantizers Used For Movie :
------------------------------
Quant 2 Used : 77101 Times, Percentage Used : 31.40%
Quant 3 Used : 163949 Times, Percentage Used : 66.76%
Quant 4 Used : 4528 Times, Percentage Used : 1.84%
Quant 5 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Average Quantizer Used for Movie : 2.704

No credits encoding!!

MPEG Quantization Type Used 241050 timed, Percentage Used : 98.16%

H.263 Quantization Type Used 4530 timed, Percentage Used : 1.84%

Quantizers prevented from rising too steeply 0 times


Intra-Frame (Key-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 3279 Times, Percentage Used : 94.63%
Quant 3 Used : 186 Times, Percentage Used : 5.37%

Credits
---------

Number Of Consecutive I-Frames : 54

Inter-Frame (P-Frame) Quantizers
------------------------------------

Movie
-------
Quant 2 Used : 73822 Times, Percentage Used : 30.49%
Quant 3 Used : 163763 Times, Percentage Used : 67.64%
Quant 4 Used : 4528 Times, Percentage Used : 1.87%
Quant 5 Used : 2 Times, Percentage Used : 0.00%

Credits
---------



Frame Analisis
----------------

Number Of Intra-Frames (Key-Frames) : 3465
Number Of Inter-Frames (P-Frames) : 242115
Total Number Of Frames : 245580

1.41% of the Movie is Intra-Frames (Key-Frames)
98.59% of the Movie is Inter-Frames (P-Frames)



Size Analysis
----------------

1-Pass Size : -2061941988 Bytes or 2180688 KBytes
Scaled Size : 1600604041 Bytes or 1563089 KBytes
Actual Size : 1600607470 Bytes or 1563093 KBytes

Usefull Statistics
------------------
Compressibility : -77.63%
Relative Quality of XviD avi : 73.95%
Absolute Quality of XviD avi : 97.89%

I also did a divx5 encode and will visually compare all 3 and report back
(are you still interested as I know there is another build out)

Seems that Search 5 gives more quant 2 overall (but fewer quant 2 i frames)
Both give 2 frames with quant 5
Pretty saturated I guess so maybe not the best test....

Andy