need confirmation: can't cut-then-join, umaniac's build

[avih]

did some retesting. the original caps were using virtualdubvcr1.49, and vdub1.4.10 couldn't recompress-join them. if i capped with vdub1.4.10 i could recompress-join. i wonder if that's a vdub-vcr problem. i'll make some more tests. sorry for the unpercise post :(
hi.
i've had this specific problem in the past, very rarely though.

now, i'm using umaniacs 1-Jul build for some time, and get this error consistantly:

i capture. then i want to recompress the credits at a lower bitrate. all goes fine untill i try to rejoin the 2 segments. it gives an error "Cannot append segment. The video streams have different data formats".

settings:

vdub 1.4.10
capture: xvid umaniacs 1-jul-2002,1-pass-cbr any bitrate (try 1420), 448x288 quants: 2 10 2 20, cbr options: 100,1000,1000.

now open this captures file in vdub, use the 'next keyframe' buttons to select a very small part of that capture (say 20 seconds), audio: direct stream copy, video: fast (or normal/full) recompress, xvid: bitrate 200, quants: 2 31 2 31. save as avi

now, try to append the new reduced bitrate clip to the current clip, you'll get this error.

can someone pls confirm these results?
i know aviutil can join these, but i want vdub to do that, and obviously, with other builds it doesn't happen. and with this build it does. maybe it'll help to fix something in the xvid stream.

cheers
avi

[sillKotscha]

I can remember that I've read a solution... (see my sign.)

in my 'own' words:

the problem may be that your clips have different dwRate & dwSample - try this:

Open the first avi
Video -> frame Rate
Change to (i.e.) 25 fps
Audio & Video Direct Stream Copy
save the file

the same with the second one... and so on and on

then you might be able to append your files.

regards Sill

P.S.: I can't imagine that this is xvid related... but must admit that I've never captured using xvid and therefore can't tell you if it really is the case

[avih]

thx. but it didn't work. and i've read that post already.

atm i think it's related to virtualdubVCR v1.49 capture WITH umaniacs build 1-Jul-2002. after i capture with vdubvcr, i can't do the process in vdub 1.10 as well. but if i cap with vdub 1.10 it's working ok.

also it's not audio related, since i've disabled the audio.

i do know though that with prev xvid build i didn't have this problem, as i'm using vdubVCR for many months now, but started to use this xvid build only lately.

thx though
avi

ps.
i'll try to conduct some more tests, and if i get a different/better conclusion, i'll post it here.

[Swede]

then i want to recompress the credits at a lower bitrate. all goes fine untill i try to rejoin the 2 segments. it gives an error "Cannot append segment. The video streams have different data formats". It could be interesting to have a look at the first, lets say, 10k of the 2 files that won't join. Since all the info about what codec, res. and so on is there and compare them. If you could post them here or send them to me I could have a look.

[avih]

attached are 2 clips. one is the original capture (default xvid values = cbr 900kbps), and one is fast-recompress to 200kbps of that capture (all the other options exactly the same).

both clips are with the audio, and for the recompress i used direct stream copy (audio). the audio is captured directly to mpeg2 using qdesign acm codec.

the clip was cut at keyframes. (single scene).

they can't be joined.

thanx for the help.
avi

[avih]

ok, seems i found the bug (or at least, found how to avoid it).
it seems it's one of those 'creeping' bugs. i cleared the vdub registry entries (both with the app auxsetup.exe, that didn't clean completely, and manually). and now it's working like a charm again.

so it's not umaniac's build fault afterall. just too many hours of capturing, reencoding and cutting/joining with vdub ;). i guess vdub needs a 'reset' once in a while...

still it would be interesting to know what caused the incompatibility, bitstream wise, of the attached clips in my prev post (it's only a 250k attachment).

cheers
avi

[Swede]

Ok, if you open the first clip in VirtualDub's Hexeditor you will see that there is a lot of junk in the Avi streamformat block. Dunno why it's there and I don't think it really matters since that space is unused. But it seems to matter for vDub's append, apparently it does a byte-check... So if you just edit out all the garbage replacing it with zeros, the append will go just fine.
(It's offset D4 to 117)

[avih]

yup, i've looked at the clips with an hex editor, but since i don't know the avi spec, i couldn't know what's important and what's not.

thx for the help. i'll keep the note on "(It's offset D4 to 117)" in a safe place ;)

but it makes me think. it still could be a bug of vdub, since when you recompress, you (vdub ;)) should create the same format, and recompressing the larger clip, and joining doesn't work. you can try that yourself...

[Swede]

it still could be a bug of vdub, since when you recompress, you (vdub ) should create the same format, and recompressing the larger clip, and joining doesn't work. Well, since these bytes are unused it shouldn't matter what is in there, but it obviously does. So the question is, why are they there in the first place? After you recompressed they're gone, replaced by zeros, which I think is the correct way.
Is the junk there in the first avi? The one you got from VirtualVCR?

And btw, if you you the hexeditor in vdub 1.10 you will get some hints to what is what (and what's not used), just click around on a byte somewhere in the beginning. You can also see the RIFF-chunk tree.