Dominion vs. Me !!!

[Sasovics]

Hi all!
I've tried to encode Dracula 2000 movie at 818 kbps bitrate, and fit it to 1CD with Nandub. I have it already as 1 CD rip from Dominion group. The problem is that I tried "almost everything", changing various Nandub settings like Antishit (16,30,0 or 16,30,50 ... also 21,1,0), tried both symetric and asymetric curve compression method (symetric method on 0 % and also on value given by calc button .. crosspoint 280)
Motion based curve modulation on 30% ... also on 0%
gauge: 30-40-80
DRF min-2 max-7
Filters:
250 - High pass
1500-2000 -Low pass
minimum allowed bitrate: 300-320
and I'm using just smart resize filter BUT, the result is ALWAYS worser as that one from Dominion group. I've used the same resolution as they did. 640x272. The only difference is in the source. My source is PAL .. that one from Dominion is NTSC. Now I am out of idea what to do to make quality better, at least on same level as they have. The picture from Dominion is more sharper (I've tried several filters like warp sharp,but it doesn't help), in high action scenes less blocky. Are they using some special "tricky" settings ? Does anybody have any settings from them ? .... just want to compare with mine.

Thanx
See ya

Pete

[Fox Mulder]

Perhaps you can try this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29134

[Sasovics]

... yeah. I've tried it already. But using bilinear filtering you will get blurry picture ... and that's what I don't want.
And another thing .. the high motion scenes are still blocky :(
I'm thinking about changind values on Motion-based Dll switches ...
but almost nobody has suggested to change it. :(
... that's why I'd like to see an example of .vcf file using by groups like Dominion or Vite. I'm very curious, what da kind of settings are they using ... because (as I wrote before) I tried "almost" everything.

Pete

[NeVeRLiFt]

Dude Precise Bilinear is not blurry.
My Nandub rips are all sharp crisp, no detail loss.
When you resize to a smaller resolution you use it.
When you resize to a bigger resolution you use bicubic.

[Sasovics]

OK, your settings seems to be good, but... I don't understand one thing.
Many people and "senior members of this forum" do not recommend to use Motion based curve modulation and Enable Bits Reservoir modulation together. When you are doing 1 CD rips , it is good when this option is enabled , but in other hand the Motion based curve modulation should be 0%(disabled). As I see, you have enabled it both... why ?
:(

[NeVeRLiFt]

I use it cause it works. You use my settings and the results speak for themself. The quality is just there. Ya you may come across a movie that does not look as good but most movies will look beautiful and there only 1cd ;)
Some movies may even have a few bad scenes... playing with the anti-shit are upping the bitrate is the only way to fix that.



I saved my profile then opened it in wordpad and copied it all and pasted it in the post.

I did not have filters set or anti-shit and the bitrate will need set, and that it.

[Sasovics]

... just another question:
Using VirtualDub's filters like 2d cleaner, smart smoother, warp sharper, does it have a big influence on final quality?
I'm still experimenting with that Dracula 2000 ... and still can't find out, where is that "little" point ... to reach at least the same quality as DOMINION has :(

[Dreassica]

Dominion are a proffessional DVd ripping group who have been doing it for quite a while now. U shouldn't be worried that your rip doesn't approach theirs in overall quality.

[Sasovics]

If are they profs or not ... who knows.
I saw several rips released by them with very poor quality. Don't tell me that nobody can make better quality rips as they have.

[Head Hunter]

If their ovie was 23.976 frames/sec, and yours is 25 frames/sec and the filesize is the same, the one at the lower frame-rate should look better, so don't get upset about the difference in quality.

[kilroy]

try using these settings man...
low pass filter: 6000
high pass filter:0
just antifreeze
use hrmm sharp bicubic maybe
enable corrections on low bitrate conditions
try drf of 2,16 or 2,6
motion based curve mod = 0
symetric = 25
luminance = on
gauge = default
keyframe quality = 2,16

try those and let me know how it turns out..those are just a few ideas :) good luck!

[Sasovics]

Originally posted by kilroy
try using these settings man...
low pass filter: 6000
high pass filter:0
just antifreeze
use hrmm sharp bicubic maybe
enable corrections on low bitrate conditions
try drf of 2,16 or 2,6
motion based curve mod = 0
symetric = 25
luminance = on
gauge = default
keyframe quality = 2,16

try those and let me know how it turns out..those are just a few ideas :) good luck!


Hi buddy!

Thank you for your settings, I've tried it,
but the result is the same: blocky picture at dark, high motion scenes :(
If I could prevent this "blockiness" ... the final quality should be the same (may be better) as Dominion have... ;)
Can I prevent those "blockiness" by using some VDub filters ???
Any other suggestions ?

[Sasovics]

Hi all! So had anybody seen how those groups(Dominion, ViTe) makes their movies ?????!!!!!!! :( :( :(

[Sasovics]

Now I am really out of idea. How it is possible to rip movie to 1CD, in quality they have ?!? I tried 100 of settings, suggestions .. and so on, so on... I think they HAVE TO use some other soft to encode their movies. I think I have to give it up ... With using Nandub or Gordian Knot I wont reach the quality as they have. Never !
So what do u think ?

Pete

[Acaila]

There's about 95% chance they used NanDub to encode that movie. But that's beside the point.

Why does it have to be DivX 3 though? DivX 3 always has a block problem at least in fast motion scenes. If you can't get good enough results try using DivX 5 or XviD instead. With those codecs it's far easier to get great quality movies and far less likely to get a blockfest.

I encoded Dracula 2002 (is that the same one you're talking about?) with XviD on 1 CD. It had an average quant of 2.51 at 640x272, which is about as good as it can get, with no blocks in high motion scenes. No complicated settings in NanDub needed.

[sid]

Maybe try this:

- precise bicubic resizer
- Try to get more bitrate by lowering audio bitrate (they had 860 for 23,.. fps you have 818 for 25) by using BeSweet --remix preset for ac3->mp3 encoding
- minimum bitrate: 320
- enocding error prevention & quality control: 0
- mbcm: 0%
- curve compression: 0%
- no luma
- set bitrate for credits to 150-200 or cut of credits when they begin to scroll down, thats even better
- high pass filter: 370 low pass: 2500 that will give a little bit more to the high bitrate scenes
- bitrate redistribution: proportional
- smoother 3%
- everything in the motion tab remains standard
- payback delay 45
- enable corrections on low bitrate and modulated
- gauge: 30 - 35 - 80
- both hacks set to 0
- min max drf: 2-8 or if its really hard 2-9
- min max keyframe: 2-6

[spstrikwerda]

Originally posted by Sasovics
Now I am really out of idea. How it is possible to rip movie to 1CD, in quality they have ?!? I tried 100 of settings, suggestions .. and so on, so on... I think they HAVE TO use some other soft to encode their movies. I think I have to give it up ... With using Nandub or Gordian Knot I wont reach the quality as they have. Never !
So what do u think ?

Pete

dude, trust me. as said before, DOMiNiON is a very professional ripping group. Their quality rips are based upon maybe years of practicing and study. So don't go yellin' that their rips are better than yours. just keep practicing with all kinds of settings, use VirtualDub filters, and you may notice you are getting better.
Share your findings with other member of this forum, so we can help eachother find the ideal ways to make a DivX.

When i first started out, i too had the illusion that i could do better than DOMiNiON. But i've tried everything and i gave up. I can live with that.

[Ripe73]

If they are so professional why cant they do movies without freezing frames and shitframes?!?...some of the movies are undersized too
:rolleyes:

[spstrikwerda]

have to agree with that though.... but i ripped kiss of the dragon by myself with quality that equals DOMiNiON (screenshots available) and my rip also has a few shit frames... could this be a nandub bug?

[Ripe73]

I dont think its a Nandub bug,its more a divx3.11 bug...
Just use Antishit and the problem is gone,atleast for me :)
Try something like Antishit 16 Min Quality 1 Motion Mod. 30%
It will encode the frame to a keyframe or a frame with lower DRF insteed of a shitframe...

[-h]

It's a Microsoft bug to do with AC coefficient overflows. There are several deficiencies in the format itself which leave it far from adequate in my opinion.

-h

[iago]

[...] dude, trust me. as said before, DOMiNiON is a very professional ripping group. Their quality rips are based upon maybe years of practicing and study. So don't go yellin' that their rips are better than yours. just keep practicing with all kinds of settings, use VirtualDub filters, and you may notice you are getting better [...] When i first started out, i too had the illusion that i could do better than DOMiNiON. But i've tried everything and i gave up. I can live with that.

Well, I just couldn't resist making this quotation! The helplessness described and the prevailing mood of futility in these lines reminded me of Kafka novels actually! :D

iago

[rmatei]

It's just something that happens naturally, it's weird. You think you've tried everything, but you haven't. At this point, you just need to live with the results and move on. After ripping some 50-100 movies you will find that you can come back to this movie and get pretty damn close to Dominion quality. It's not just the individual settings, it's the finesse of how they interact.

Or you could just use Xvid like I do when I don't have time to tweak.

[ultimatebilly]

Originally posted by Head Hunter
If their ovie was 23.976 frames/sec, and yours is 25 frames/sec and the filesize is the same, the one at the lower frame-rate should look better, so don't get upset about the difference in quality.

Although I do not agree with that statement in general (because that the movie is played slower doesn't mean necessarily that the quality is better,the amount of frames to encode is the same...) I do very well agree that the NTSC-source may be much better than the PAL-source...
The first thing is, that PAL-DVD-resolution (at least vertically) is higher (576 compared to 480), which needs more bits for every frame, so the bitrate must be higher to gain the same quality as for NTSC on the DVD in the first place... And because a DVD is a limited medium, the frame-quality will probably be worse on the pal-DVD (achieving a higher resolution)...
The second thing is that the maximum bitrate a DVD can have is 9800Kbit/sec, and if you have 9800Kbit for 23.976 or for 25 frames is quite a difference (here the DVD-Player is the limiting factor), so for peak-bitrates the statement of Head Hunter is right...
The third thing is that the PAL-DVD may be made from a totally different master...
So I think your work is pretty much a sisyphus-work, as long you don't use the same source they did...
So try to get hold of the NTSC-DVD, or forget it... (Maybe it is better to forget it? ;) )
Another thing is, that Dominion may use a combination of smoother-, sharpening filters you will never know about, so tweaking settings in Nandub may be not the point...
But, hey, I'm pretty sure you learned a lot during your encoding settings, so what?

P.S.: I forgot something... Maybe you have additional language tracks on the PAL-DVD as well, which eat up much space (so the video-quality is further decreased to make the whole thing fit...)

[Sasovics]

Finaly I found out, that there is no point to "fight" which rip is better. Their or mine. And I finaly switched to XviD, which is for me the best solution in DVD ripping. I tried the same source (Dracula 2000 DVD PAL) encode with Xvid, and the quality is "maybe" better as their madee in DIV3 ;)

[Slogra]

I find that Divx3.11 looks sharper most of the time, but those shitty errors drive me completely nuts (and anti-shit is not really a good solution).