Copy CD problem

[metrum_eng]

Hello all,

Everytime I try to copy a CD, via CD (in dvd-rom) to CD (in cd writer rom) I experience problems/errors. Occasionally I'll have a successful copy, but I've noticed that NERO gives me an error warning before I can start the CD 2 CD copy process. It'll say that my source (dvd rom) and destination (cd writer) are on the same IDE bus, and it's recommended that I change IDE buses for a more optimized CD copy. And it does warn that I can and probably will encounter errors because these 2 devices are using the same IDE bus and have a hard time reading and writing at the same time on the same IDE bus..

So my question is, has anyone ever experienced this and if so do you know where I can obtain information on how to change IDE buses?

FYI I recently switched OS from Windows ME to Windows XP. While I had WinME I experienced the same problems, but now I have WinXP. Possibly is there a way to change this without manually opening my system with WinXP? Or do I need to physically open my system and switch cables around to different sockets on boards.

Any information regarding this process would be helpful and appreciated.

[jggimi]

When you open up your PC, you'll find a ribbon cable runs from your motherboard to both your dvd-rom and your cd-rw drive. This is one of your IDE busses.

You'll see another ribbon cable running from the motherboard to your hard drive(s). This is your other IDE bus.

Each cable has room for 2 devices on it.

Warning! You can't just replug cables!

You'll usually find that one device is configured as the master, and the other device is configured as the slave. With a single device on a bus, it is usually configured as the master. The easiest way to replug your channels is by moving the slave device(s) around. That way, you don't have to reconfigure any device.

Each drive has configuration pins with little connectors on them. They'll be near where the IDE cable plugs in.

[Note: You might find disk-drive letters change when you move things around.]

You'll probably have to go to the manufacturers' websites to figure out which pin configuration means "master" or "slave".

If this is too much trouble, duplicate your CDs through your hard drive rather than CD-to-CD.

[Mrafrohead]

I have my hard drives on my primary cable and my cd/dvd drives on the secondary cable...

I have not had any problems with them being like this.

I have found that for me, everthing works out the same. Make sure your BIOS is set properly. Make sure you have the appropriate drivers installed for your chipset on your motherboard.

When I used to keep them seperate, I noticed no difference in performance or stability.

So I thought that you may be interested in knowing this;)

Mrafrohead

[metrum_eng]

Thanks for the input on this matter. @ jggimi, It doesn’t sound too complicated, however I feel I need to contact my system manufacture and make sure which pins are which.

You say that I can copy CD’s from my hard drive? Is there is a way I can copy the CD image to my hard drive, have it copied/stored in HD memory as if it were an actual CD? Then copy that to an CD-R and it would result in a CD to CD copy?

For example, I sometimes like to copy PC games for friends, but when I put the cd game into my drive, it’ll automatically open the game, and I can’t just open the CD to look at the folders/files because it automatically starts the games. So I would need to do a CD to CD copy in order to make duplicate. I didn’t think I could do that by using only one drive (cd-writer) and my hard drive? If there is a process/way I can do that, please let me know?

Another example, with my encoded movies that I store on cd-r’s, I know I can easily open those and just copy the avi files from them to my HD memory and then copy from my hard drive to CD, that’s easy. But with particular CD’s that instantly open when you put them into your cd drive, there’s no way for me to open those to copy the files/folders. But if there’s a way to store the cd image to my hard drive, please let me know? Hope you understand what I’m saying and sorry for the rambling.

[metrum_eng]

Disregard my last message, I figured it out :D

It's pretty easy using Nero 5.5, but can you recommend any other cd copier program, perhaps Easy CD Creator Platinum?

Anyways, thanks for your help and feedback. Best Regards :)

[jggimi]

I use Nero for most cd burning activities, and Nero can burn a cd-image file that can be used for replicating without going player-to-player.

But for CD replication, I prefer the blindwrite suite. It manages cue/bin files a little easier than Nero, too. You can download it from www.blindwrite.com and give it a try.

The websites of the various drive manufacturers is where you'll find pin configuration information. You'll need the model numbers of your dvd, cd, and hd(s).

[mpucoder]

Most drives (disk, CD, and DVD) made in the last 3 or 4 years have a legend on the case to help set the jumpers.

[Pyre8]

Is there an option in Nero which is perhaps trying to do the copy 'on-the-fly' i.e. without writing to the disk? Could this be an issue - on-the-fly on the same bus will sure give you problems.

[jggimi]

The "wizard" give you the opportunity to turn off using the HD as intermediate storage.

[theReal]

I'd say if the copying from CD to CD works with both drives being on the same cable, just ignore the error message! I've done that for a very long time without ever running into trouble. I was able to copy 16x from CD to CD and at the same time encode a movie at idle priority. Nothing ever went wrong. I think Nero just warns that this MIGHT cause severe problems, it doesn't have to.

EDIT: I just realized you actually HAD problems, so, ok, forget the ignoring...
You'll have to change the drives to other cables (and unfortunately you probably have to connect one of the drives - preferably not the writer - as a slave device on the same cable with the HD). Or you just use an image file with Nero. On the copy-panel, you basically have to uncheck "on the fly", but you can also configure where the image file should go and if it should be deleted after the copy.

In Nero, to only record an image file and burn a CD later, you'll have to change the CD-Writer to "Image Recorder" instead of your CDRW drive. Then just do a normal on the fly copy and you'll be asked where to save the image as soon as you click "burn".

[metrum_eng]

Originally posted by theReal
Or you just use an image file with Nero. On the copy-panel, you basically have to uncheck "on the fly", but you can also configure where the image file should go and if it should be deleted after the copy.


That's exactly what I did and learned how to do today, lol. I had to uncheck "on the fly" and I was able to choose where I wanted the image file to be placed (meaning which folder on C drive), and once it copied to that folder, it told me to take the source CD out of writer and pop in a blank CD to write image. It worked perfectly.

I used to just copy cd to cd when I had windows ME and using Easy CD creator 4 (I think), and every now & then I would get errors and waste Cd's. Recently I switched OS to Windows XP and no longer had the easy cd creator, but had Nero 5.5 and tried copying CD to CD, which it gave me that IDE same bus warning. So I treid anyway and experienced an error. Which brought me to asking the original questions above, and now thankfully I figured out how to copy the CD image to HD and write from there. Thanks All!

[twistee]

I also had the problem of not doing cd copys 'on the fly'. and nero always gave me that warning. im just want to make sure what your saying with the cables to the cd drives and hard drives.

at the moment i have 2 cd drives (dvd - master and burner - slave) and 2 hard drives. should i plug in the primary hard drive as master and my dvd drive as slave, and then on the other cable plug the second hard drive as master and my cd burner as slave? or should i do it another way...

[manono]

Hi-

Personally I don't think it's such a good idea to put your optical drives on the same channel with the hard drives because they will both then have the same speed as the slower one. That is, you put your ATA-33 CD burner as a slave to your ATA-100 hard drive, then your hard drive just became ATA-33.

[twistee]

hmm...not going to change my setup then, thanks for telling me :)

[theReal]

you could try to change the connection like this:

set up the CD Writer as the master device and the DVD Rom as the slave device on the same cable. This is how it worked for me. Maybe the writer doesn't like to be the slave, whatever...

[jggimi]

I don't have this particular issue, because my dvd-rom and my cd-burner are on different PCs.

[Alestrix]

Originally posted by theReal
set up the CD Writer as the master device and the DVD Rom as the slave device on the same cable. This is how it worked for me. Maybe the writer doesn't like to be the slave, whatever...
I don't think swapping drives should make a change. At least on my computer (DVD master, CDRW slave) on-the-fly works fine. But I'm somewhat surprised nobody mentioned DMA so far... metrum_eng: Ever made sure that both optical drives have DMA enabled?? If they're not too old they should support it. I don't have XP but I think the setting can still be found in the Device Manager.

Just my two Eurocents (formally known as roughly four Deutschpfennig)
A

[twistee]

im pretty sure i have dma enabled...i havent checked though. its kinda wierd though. i have a 40x burner...and it burns faster than i copy stuff to the hard drive from cd (from my dvd drive)...so i dont think it would actually be possible...but i could be wrong.

[Alestrix]

Originally posted by twistee
...and it burns faster than i copy stuff to the hard drive from cd (from my dvd drive)...
Well it's logical when using on-the-fly you can't burn faster than your DVD deliveres the data - but you already knew that, right? ;)

I normally copy CDs at 16x, even though my CDRW can burn 32x - I'm positive that Audio-CD Players might have less problems with a CD-R written at 16x than at 32x...

- A

[metrum_eng]

Originally posted by Alestrix

metrum_eng: Ever made sure that both optical drives have DMA enabled?? If they're not too old they should support it. I don't have XP but I think the setting can still be found in the Device Manager.


In my old OS, WindowsME, I was able to see and check the DMA in device manager regarding my DVD rom. I'm now running Windows XP and I've tried to locate the DMA setting in the device manager but cannot locate it (both cd-writer & dvd rom). I'm assuming that WinXP has them checked somewhere because when I rip the vob files from DVD's, it's as fast or a little faster now with WinXP. And from my understanding, if your DVD rom doesn't have DMA checked, it'll slow down the rip/vob process, thats why I assume it's checked someplace, just cannot locate it.

If you know where to locate the DMA setting in Windows XP, let me know, thanks.

[Alestrix]

Originally posted by metrum_eng
I'm now running Windows XP and I've tried to locate the DMA setting in the device manager but cannot locate it (both cd-writer & dvd rom)
[...]
If you know where to locate the DMA setting in Windows XP, let me know, thanks.
Try looking at the IDE controllers (primary and secondary) instead of the drives. At least that's where it's located in 2k.

Good luck, (and good nite :) )
A

[twistee]

I cant stand burning slower than 40x now...im impatient, and i like to use my computer when burning, so the littler time burning the better. I burn everything at 40x (if the blank cds let me), audio, vcd, svcd, and normal cds. I have never had a problem with audio cd players and dvd players not liking the speed that i burn at...maybe i have just been lucky...for a long time...

[metrum_eng]

Originally posted by Alestrix

Try looking at the IDE controllers (primary and secondary) instead of the drives. At least that's where it's located in 2k.

Good luck, (and good nite :) )
A

Yes I located them and found out that the Primary IDE channel had DMA enabled:
(DEVICE 0)
Device Type: It's grayed out auto detection
Transfer Mode: DMA if available checked
Current Transfer mode: Ultra DMA mode 4

(DEVICE 1)
Device Type: Auto Detection
Transfer mode: DMA if available
Current transfer mode: not applicable

And on my Secondary IDE Channel it look the same BUT instead of DMA it has PIO whatever that is/means? I do have an option to check DMA instead of PIO, do you recommend I should?

[manono]

Hi-

do you recommend I should?

Yes, by all means. And you might check the BIOS as well to see if there's a setting to enable UDMA (it may already be enabled).

[theReal]

In my BIOS settings (Epox 8K7A+), there's a switch "allow UDMA for CDROM", which is disabled by default. Maybe you have something similar.

There are however some burners which don't like UDMA modes (or can't handle UDMA transfers at all). Those burners should be connected as the only drive on a cable.