A little something about Microsoft

[dvd2svcd]

This might or might not be common knowledge, and it might or might not be slander (although it doesn't seem to be). Anyway, read for yourself, I found it disturbing, maybe you do too.

Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going. (http://hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm)

It starts with a simple question "I've heard WinXP removed the cmd/command prompt." And from there the article expands.

[gerti67]

Yeah,

that's why I still use Win2k - and in fact that's about all MS software I use (Ok, besides IE but Mozilla 1.0 is on the way ;)). Not that I don't have a problem with registering WinXP as you can do this via phone also - but I hate to turn off thousand of gizmos here and there that try to contact the net every now and then.

Here's a quote I can't remember who said it:

"Have you ever noticed that whenever Microsoft calls something 'Smart', it's definitely a feature you want to disable!"

I think it describes my feelings to the MS .Net-Feature-Mania very good. But it could also be possible that I'm just a bit too paranoid. :D

But if they stick to their "Palladium" plans than Win2k is also my last OS from MS and the next one will be Linux I guess - btw. are you already planning to add "Linux support" to DVD2SVCD? :D - Just kidding.

Greetz,
Gerti

[MxxCon]

OMG!
how can that idiot even dare to write such lies?!
how can you even dare to belive that bs?!
i can prove you that like 95% of stuff written on that page is either misleading or plain WRONG.
all i can say is the only thing you should belive in that article is that he spellchecked it:rolleyes:
(if you insist i can do point by point analysis of this crap)

[buba king]

well i've never seen those problems with the cmd line.. and i use it ALOT! :P

oh.. man i really need to jump to linux :( (i'm too stupid)

[dvd2svcd]

Originally posted by MxxCon
OMG!
how can that idiot even dare to write such lies?!
how can you even dare to belive that bs?!
i can prove you that like 95% of stuff written on that page is either misleading or plain WRONG.
all i can say is the only thing you should belive in that article is that he spellchecked it:rolleyes:
(if you insist i can do point by point analysis of this crap) That might be so and I will not defend what he writes or take it for face value, however, I followed the links he referred to, among those the article on TheRegister and ZDNet. Did you follow the links and read them?

Sorry MxxCon, but it seems to me that you only read the first 10-20 lines and jumped to conclusions that this article was just about the Commandprompt.

Anyway, I don't want to start any flamewars (pro/con microsoft), I just fell over this article + links and wanted to put it forth to whomever was interested in the issues.

[MxxCon]

no, i read the whole thing, not just command line part.
not only is that article inaccurate, but it also link to TheReg, as you mentioned, which we all know is a far from an objective news site and will try to create hype and histeria every chance they get.

[Neo Neko]

The Register is just as objective as Microsoft and friends. Perhaps more so. They both have their own spin. The trick is to filter out the mountains of crap and obtain the grains of truth. I have yet to find any grains from Microsoft myself. And while he has not laid out detaild explanations of the things he brings into question, they are still questionable. Much of the behavior he describes is true. Whether it is good or bad remains to be proven. If you have proof that it is good I would like to hear it. When it comes to Microsoft I am generally never suprised if I assume the worst of them. I don't want to start a MS flame war either. But unlike many of those rabbid MS supporters who are are deaf or blind to the other side. I myself as a Microsoft pessemist/basher like to be armed with all the info and truths possible. I never bash needlessly or without purpose. But still I find myself dooing an awful lot of bashing.

[diji1]

MxxCon : i can prove you that like 95% of stuff written on that page is either misleading or plain WRONG ... (if you insist i can do point by point analysis of this crap)

i'd be interested in seeing a point by point analysis by you as a lot of the points in that article(s) are true - many are common knowledge and i consider it an abuse of position by microsoft and i do find them disturbing as to the direction of "enthusiast" computing.

[MaTTeR]

As someone in the I.T. industry and a so called advanced user of Windoze for the past 9 years, I'd also love to hear someone defend each of these points the author of the link pointed out. Most of us have dealt with Windoze/M$ for several years and I think it's very clear the author certainly knows what he's talking about.

I have used XP since it's beta stage and decided over the weekend I'm sick of the cons that it brings to my everyday computing life and going back to Win2k. Has anyone seen the new Apple commercials on TV? It's about time Apple gets some aggressive marketing going against M$ :)

[Alestrix]

Since I'm not in the states - where can I download that commercial? :-)

[vorbis]

Whoever wrote that seems to me to be afraid of his own shadow. Several of his points are common knowledge. Anyonwe who doesn't want to install Passport for instance, can choose not do during installation. if they can't, then they're a fool. If you really care that much about it, you should at least read every thing that flashes up on the screen.
As for the comment regarding security patches might interfere with the running of programs. That seems to me to be a typical legal statement. Its like if I said every dog has 4 legs someone would find one that hasn't. Similarly, a statement such as "this will not affect any program" would be exploited by some smart ass running some 2 bit shareware program.
If you feel the need for ultimate privact then chuck the PC out the door and wall up the windows. I've been using XP for months, quite happily (encoding movies, surfing the internet etc.) and no police have broken down the door. Anyone here actually been affected by this stuff?

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by vorbis
Whoever wrote that seems to me to be afraid of his own shadow.


And whoever ignores it is a typical Microsoft user. Who are you to say there is no reason to be warry of the things he writes?

Originally posted by vorbis
Several of his points are common knowledge. Anyonwe who doesn't want to install Passport for instance, can choose not do during installation. if they can't, then they're a fool. If you really care that much about it, you should at least read every thing that flashes up on the screen.


When did passport enter the conversation? Sure it is weak and a joke. But people can choose never to use it in the first place. What he describes are basic default enabled parts of Windows there is no easy way to not use or disable. Sure it can be done. But it is beyond most Windows users and those things are dubious.

Originally posted by vorbis
As for the comment regarding security patches might interfere with the running of programs. That seems to me to be a typical legal statement. Its like if I said every dog has 4 legs someone would find one that hasn't. Similarly, a statement such as "this will not affect any program" would be exploited by some smart ass running some 2 bit shareware program.


Microsoft has purposefully broken competitors programs in the past. It is part of the anti-trust case. Are you saying that as things stand Microsoft would never do it again? The auto-update and security patches are a perfect vehicle for stealthly installing such things. Have you actually looked at what is inside these security patches as to what is labled? There are often instances of undoccumented bits in there. As an experienced user I inspect all those securith patches as much as I can before I put em on my PC. You should not just go out and apply all patches till there are none. One patch will fix one thing and often times in the process break several others. Especially when it comes to Microsoft. History has show that Microsoft can not be trusted. Is it wrong to be warry or skeptical of them?

Originally posted by vorbis
If you feel the need for ultimate privact then chuck the PC out the door and wall up the windows. I've been using XP for months, quite happily (encoding movies, surfing the internet etc.) and no police have broken down the door. Anyone here actually been affected by this stuff?

Yes. Ignorance is not a deffense. People in the past paid no mind to Microsoft and look where we are. They have achieved a monopoly status and abused all the powers that came with it many and numerous times. All because people in the past ignored the obvious. We need to work to connect the dots and see the bigger picture. I used to be like you. But I am proof that there is hope for Windows users. You happily take all the hype that MS feeds you and are instantly overly critical of anyone who questions Microsoft? Research, dig deeper. You will be suprised! And not in good ways.

[vorbis]

hey I never said Microsoft was a kind sharing corporation. Regarding those patches, no I haven't inspected them. Since you have, could you please name one program that they cripple. In my experienmce, Windows runs just about anything. The anti-trust case about Netscape was more about Ms pre-installing IE rather than making Netsacpe impossible to install. As you said, any half experienced user can deal with most of those threats.
Microsoft's monopoly stems mainly from marketing and OEm agreements. Some might view it as slightly immoral but hardly illegal. From what I understand, they tied Dell and Co volume discounts to an agreement that only Windows be pre-installed. There is no legal obligation on any computer manufacturer to pre-install a version of Windows.
One last point, of course anyone can be wary of MS if they want to. Its a free world. However it seems hating Microsoft has becom like non-Americans hating America: a cool thing to do.

[dvd2svcd]

Vorbis: You gotta read before you answer. In the new update for Mediaplayer MS wants your accept to "cripple" supposed illegal programs without your consent. As it is today they don't cripple anything. What I object to is the principle of it. Here's part of it:

"You agree that in order to protect the integrity of content and software protected by digital rights management ('Secure Content'), Microsoft may provide security related updates to the OS Components that will be automatically downloaded onto your computer. These security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and use other software on your computer. If we provide such a security update, we will use reasonable efforts to post notices on a web site explaining the update."

Now don't tell me that you find that ok.

[GregS]

Win XP is bloatware! , as initially installed,and intrusive , but
with a little research and a few mouse clicks it's the best yet .

Did everyone here at doom9 run and hide from the MPAA and their
DMCA ? I don't think so !(insert here the speech Bluto gave in
Animal House only change "Dean Wormer" to "Microsoft" ).

I've been using XPPro for 5 months since I built my new computer and
not one crash , not one fatal error and no cops at my door .We
can't use our PII's w/ Win 98 , 2K , ME forever .I can rip a dvd
w/ DVD2SVCD and my wife can switch users , surf , e-mail ,switch
back and DVD2SVCD never knew anything happened .

Do a search for corpfiles.zip ,they're the files you need to install
XP on more than one machine (you own)without reactivating .Violating their EULA is not
a criminal offence! I am in no way telling anyone to do anything
illegal .

We just need to get doomXP.org up and running .

[GregS]

When I started to write my previous post , I hadn't read DVD2SVCD's
post and I wasn't replying to it , just this thread .

My reply to his last post would be Why? ,why would you bother
updating ms mediaplayer ? It sucks . You don't have to update
anything you don't want to .

I think this is a very relevant topic and we're all going to have
to deal with it sooner or later .

[dvd2svcd]

Originally posted by GregS
When I started to write my previous post , I hadn't read DVD2SVCD's
post and I wasn't replying to it , just this thread .

My reply to his last post would be Why? ,why would you bother
updating ms mediaplayer ? It sucks . You don't have to update
anything you don't want to .

I think this is a very relevant topic and we're all going to have
to deal with it sooner or later . You do not see the bigger picture.

1. What makes you think that MS wont make you accept the above terms for all updates in the future?

2. Do you know who gets blamed by all n00bs in the world the day GordianKnot, DVD2SVCD, WinAMP, BeSweet and so on doesn't work anymore. Yes, us the developers :(

3. Would you rather live with the known security holes of which the new MS Player fixes than update and fix it. I know you would say to this: "uninstall mediaplayer then your problems will be solved". As a sysadm at a company I do NOT want to be the cop telling them what they can do and cannot do and quite a few are using MS Player being the n00bs they are to listen to radio, so I have to update MS Player because of security risks. :(

Don't tell me that nobody will update MediaPlayer, they will. Sorry but I find your argument "don't update" to be non valid.

Besides, I am the typical MS user and I do like their software (to which I think they should stick), however I feel that they are crossing a dangerous line here. IMHO they should not start acting as vigilantes for the digital industry.

[vorbis]

that does sound worrying. However, I've updated it plenty of times. Every program still seems to work. I'm sorry but I've never heard of one single program not working because of an update. Its also a legal issue. They could run the risk of upsetting some legal programs (as GKnot is) if they try that.

[dvd2svcd]

The above statement from Microsoft is when you update to the latest version of MS player (it is a completely new statement). So ofcourse nothing have been crippled, yet. But it will happen, otherwise, what would be the point of it?

[vorbis]

Only way to see who is right regarding these new updates is to wait and see if any programs are affected. Fairest way I guess.