Avisynth Editor

[Marc FD]

HI.
I looked around and it seems to be that there is no Avisynth dedied editors (with colored syntax, names completion, errors preprocessor,ect..). U are all using a Notepad-likes ?
Am i right ?? :confused:
Because i may create a Avisynth Editor. With tons of cools features :)
If s.o. is interessed :
1) Think of the Avisynth Editor of your dreams.
2) Do features requests Below.
3) Dl the soft when i release it
4) Test it.
5) go to 1)

If you keep me busy. I would make a release as soon as it is better than Notepad or an automatic scipter like GKnot,AutoDub,and others :devil:

[Richard Berg]

Sounds cool. I suppose the easiest thing would be to make a language plugin for TextPad/EditPad/OmniPad/UltraEdit/Emacs, but if you wanna make a full-blown app I doubt anyone will complain.

[Marc FD]

a plugin language would just color some keywords stuff, that's all..
(i think.. I'm not a xxxx-SuperUltraMega-Edit-like user ;) )

what i will implement is :

- Syntax complection :
you write video = AVI... and the prog proposes 'source' in a popping combo box. you type ENTER and it's writed.
- Directories Assist.
you write MPEGsource("C: and the prog pops up a Open Dialog !
- Plugins Autoload.
you write simpleresize, spatialsoftenMMX, tempsof2, mpegsource, tweak, unfilter or whatever else and the Editor will AUTOMATICALLY
write a LoadPlugin("c:/plugdirectory/plug") line in the top of your script.
- preview.
you type <TAB> and a window pops up and show you the result of your script.
- Noob Help
Were all Noobs somewhere. for ex. I don't know how to use the UltimatFilterWhoMakeTheVideoLookBetter.DLL and there are 10 args and if you enter bad args you obtain shit. I will be angry.
It's why my editor will have defaults args for Filters,
Tons of already makes scripts for each purpose, Help on each filter with F1, Dialog Box for Each filter, ect...
- That's already a big stuff..
And if you add you features request below and keep me busy :D we will get the ULTIMATE AVISYNTH EDITOR EVER MADE &copy; :devil:

(I am not a beast in programming but i can do everything's that i have said before. I'ts no bullsh*t :cool: )

[Richard Berg]

You've got some great ideas; if you can implement half of that featureset it would be a godsend for a lot of folks.

- Syntax complection :
you write video = AVI... and the prog proposes 'source' in a popping combo box. you type ENTER and it's writed.
- Directories Assist.
you write MPEGsource("C: and the prog pops up a Open Dialog !

Look at the way Visual Studio does this. The completions are given if you want them, but someone typing with his eyes closed could continue as if it wasn't there.

In short, helpful but unobtrusive is the name of the game. I think the ultimate example of this is the CMD shell with [tab] filename completion...something as simple as that, applied to filter names & filenames inside XXXSource(), would be most of the battle. Of course, the argument tooltips you described further down (another thing Visual Studio does very well IMO) would make some most excellent icing on the cake, if I may mix metaphors.

- Plugins Autoload.
you write simpleresize, spatialsoftenMMX, tempsof2, mpegsource, tweak, unfilter or whatever else and the Editor will AUTOMATICALLY
write a LoadPlugin("c:/plugdirectory/plug") line in the top of your script.

Cool so long as the program's kept up to date WRT plugins that get rolled into the main avisynth.dll...

- preview.
you type <TAB> and a window pops up and show you the result of your script.

Even better: it displays the script output side-by-side with the clip(s) it sees being read with XXXSource(), or another clip chosen in an Open dialog (since multiple sources would get confusing quick). VirtualDub-style, in other words.

Advanced version: if the script does any kind of framerate conversion, decimation, etc., your program is smart enough to advance the source 3 frames for every 2 frames avisynth feeds it (or whatever).

Advanced version of filter-argument tooltips: filters like Resize and Crop have the parameters of the source clip shown for reference.

Immediate window (think QBasic :)): one or two lines of screen real estate where you can quickly test bits of code without executing the whole thing or opening another file.

Advanced version: as above, including support for functions you may have defined in the main script window.

----------

Ok, that should keep you busy :cool: Release early & often...if you wanna set up a SourceForge project I've just been through the whole rigmarole so shoot any questions my way...

[Dark-Cracker]

hi,

Very nice idear,just a little questions :

- in which language do u think develop this tool ? (if it in visualbasic i could help u if an not keep busy by the development of my tool).

3 little suggestions :
- i think a specified plugin will not a good solution (most of these editor are shareware and the syntax is to structured) simply create an editor (1 form + 1 menu + 1 richbox = notepad).
- use a specified directory with all the plugin.
- make an error parser.(when u try to read an false .avs it return u and num line error, it will be fine to focus in the tool the bad line.)

I hope this will help u :-)

Good luck :)

[Acaila]

Great idea!! We sure could use such a great tool!

- How about making an internal library where one could pick out filters to use and insert them. All with helpfile for how to use that particular filter and the parameters (and examples for those who don't know that filter).
- A preview would be excellent, but I don't think it would fit into the scope of this project. But if you insist, by all means :).

[Richard Berg]

Make sure the filter info is maintained in an external file (I suggest XML) so we don't have to recompile your program every time there's a change.

[poptones]

Yer gonna hate me for this, but I honestly think "scripts" should be optional. I know this is all synchronous, and avery told me long ago it'd be a pain to make it async, but I honestly don't think that stands in the way of making it a lot more friendly. If the GUI were based on XML then new filters would be fairly easy to add: just specifify syntax, and what variables need "sliders" or text boxes.

Anyway, IMO the single most handy feature would be a media player applet for previewing that has a tiny bit of intelligence in refreshing. I used veedub for this, but it's kind of a pain because to get from one frame to the next you can't just type in a frame number (or can you? Am I missing something?)

If you could just tweak the filter in notepad, ctrl-s and then click "refresh" in a preview window and it would reopen the file AND automatically seek right back to the same frame, that alone would be a giant step forward. I had something like this I fudged together from DHTML using WMP, but it's a bit too kludgey to be shared. Anyway, given that, I don't think it would be too hard... maybe?

[dividee]

We could easily add a function in avisynth IScriptEnvironment (remember, there is a CreateScriptEnvironment function exported by the dll) which would return the list of all available filters and their paramaters. So you could query it directly. For plugins, you would need to call LoadPlugin first which add the filters in the plugin to the list.

In a second time, we may add more complete syntax info into the filters themselves, such as default values and valid ranges.

Or if we go with the XML description, the file should be kept in the CVS an updated when we add/modify filters.

[EDIT:]

I used veedub for this, but it's kind of a pain because to get from one frame to the next you can't just type in a frame number (or can you? Am I missing something?)

Yes you can! Just hit Ctrl+G

[Koepi]

I agree with poptone, it would be nicest to have a "powerful" GUI in which you setup and preview cropping, can add filters ([ ] temporal cleaner [____/____]) and so on.
A shortcut for modifying the script would be really cool as well.

I thought about doing something like that already but I always got busy with other apps then...

Regards,
Koepi

[dividee]

Koepi, the interface you suggest ([ ] temporal cleaner [____/____]) would terribly limit avisynth; a more powerful one would be like graphedit. But even then, it won't be as flexible as scripting.
And there is the Animate filter, which is very powerful but quite hard to use.

[Richard Berg]

No joke! It'll be hard enough to come up with an IntelliSense-like tooltip for Animate -- would have to be smart enough to recurse over whatever input function(s) you input...brain hurts... Then again, VS is doing much the same thing when it automatically pops up lists of (user-defined) class members.

Now that we've taught poppy the wonders of CTRL-G, I think we can relegate realtime-GUI stuff to gravy; the meat of the effort (IMHO) should be an editor that's as smart with AVS scripting as Visual Studio is with C++.

After thinking about dividee's idea a bit, I think we should limit enumeration-via-DLL to the list of filters and perhaps their version numbers. It would be too hard (vs. the additional payoff [if any] over XML) to come up with generalized specifications for hard-coding and then interpreting that kind of info. Also, where would it stop? Do we compile documentation into the DLL while we're at it?

Backing all the way down to good ol' text descriptions, it's apparent the human brain can do the heavy lifting with much less overhead :cool: If we're gonna have some of the requisite intelligence embedded in the app, though, XML seems the best compromise.

(note: just analyzing, don't let me discourage anyone from proposing ideas, no matter how wacky!)

[poptones]

Yes you can! Just hit Ctrl+G

Doh!

[poptones]

By the way: if we had a more convenient gui to help write scripts...

Well, first let me define "convenient." I mean pick in/out points and then specify effects applied and settings.

Now, if we had that, animate would be a thing of the past. It would be irrelevant. It would also make avisynth a tool on par with many other NLE packages. Projects would be self documenting. It would be like having a videoCAD package, which is the reason I developed such a stiffy for this package the first time I learned how to use it. Nothing is to stop you from tweaking text (just like making 3D models with Wavefront) - but you still don't have to do every frame (i.e. vertice) by hand!

I know most people are just using it as a dumb interface for ripping DVDs, but this software is capable of SO much more. Especially after just the last few days of development!

[Richard Berg]

True -- I think I've gotten so used to scripting's limitations that I forget the obvious stuff. Namely, it's a giant PITA to scroll around in VDub until we find that the segment we wanna modify is from frames 1192-5249, then futz with Trim. Simplifying that process should be the first goal of any preview/GUI components added to your editor.

Thing is, I have no idea what a timeline-style interface should look like. With audio, you've got the waveform; with MIDI, you've got notes on a staff or controllers on a piano roll. How the heck do you display at a glance the temporal axis of a video?

[poptones]

I don't think it needs to be a timeline. That's the way the "editing suites" do it, and we all know just how "friendly" that is. I dunno about you, but I barely use that "timeline" because it's such a slow nuisance.

A "preview" window along with a vertical folder-type panel with the names of all the edits would be just as useful. Just click the edit you want to go to and the "preview" jumps to the first frame. To edit the properties have a double-click sort of thing that opens a dialog. If you want to tweak thge code yourself have an edit. I'm thinking kind of like a page mill, where it spits out volumes of code but the text is always just a click or two away.

Anyway, that's admittedly getting pretty complex, and even 'tho I thought about it if I knew how to actually do it I would have already done it, so I think we know how that story ends.

[Dark-Cracker]

i think a good idear it to add later the support of the Vdub plugin (using the Wilbert's script) i have work on that in my tool and i have find a way to detect the processor (AMD or Intel) for using the optimized version of the plugin, i have find too a way to use the AviUtl plug-in in avisynth script file.
i think the second step for the developpment of this tool it to add a topic with the plugins (avisynth, Vdub or AviUtl, optimized version) the user want to see in your tool with the default settings and the optimized value (if some avisynth guru have made test).

Bye.

Mail me if u want some avisynth plugin.

[Marc FD]

Ok.
I will try to answer to all at once :)
- I don't use VB nor VC++ because i avoid M$ softs :devil:
- I use Delphi (I'm a Delphi programmer :D , i'm bad in C/C++)
It is as powerfull as C when you know how to use it (and i'm still 20x better in Delphi than in C)
- I have tried a RichEdit in a form.. the dumbest thing..
I can't use it because it's too limited : I can't highlight keywords, pop a window, ect...
- I've a totally a crazy idea :D : I've make an Text editor from scratch unsing DirectX (it's not a joke !)
want to give it a try (http://ziquash.chez.tiscali.fr/) ?
The next step is to implement keywords recognition...
- I don't know how to use XML , so i will make something like .ini/.inf/.reg files.
I will try to hardcode the few settings possible (Dialogs,ect...)
- What i try to dev. is a TEXT editor, with additional features not another automatic script maker like GK,AutoDub,ect..

[Richard Berg]

- I've a totally a crazy idea : I've make an Text editor from scratch unsing DirectX (it's not a joke !)
want to give it a try ?
Being psycho is good & all, but not at the expense of productivity; don't reinvent the wheel. The guy behind OmniPad (http://godfather.arsware.org/OmniPad/) is a pal of mine, just chat him up and ask how he did this or that, if he asks say I sent you :)

I don't know how to use XML...

XML isn't for preferences a la .ini/.reg -- ok, it can be and often is, but that misses the point. It's a generalized way to store structured data. By generalized I just mean "you can make up whatever shit you want so long as you're consistent" :) Quick sample of what (I think) we're talking about:


<filter name="Crop">
<argument name="Input clip" optional="no">
<type>YUY2</type>
<type>RGB24</type>
<type>RGB32</type>
</argument>
<argument name="top" optional="yes">
<type>integer</type>
<default>0</default>
<min>0</min>
<max>clip.height</max>
</argument>
...etc...
</filter>

<filter name="Foo">
...etc...

[Marc FD]

... I see.. Like HTML
Is it easy to retrive XML data ? (to use them at execution)

[Richard Berg]

http://www.google.com/search?cat=&q=delphi+xml

[Koepi]

Well, my GF is going on holidays to turkey for 2 months on tuesday, so I've some spare time again.

I'll make a small prototype of what I think how it should be done - I'd really like a preview, I don't want "automatic setup", I just don't want to open the avs all the time in vdub and correct it, reload it,... I think a replacement for this procedure is necessary.

It can be extended to support plenty of filters, maybe some "tabbed setup" would be cool - I have to look into that.

Regards,
koepi

[Belgabor]

Gosh, you guys are fast ;)

I wrote something like this a long while ago, pretty basic, but it dun work anymore :/ (to be honest, i cant even recall if it ever really worked ok)

Problem seems to be - as i made the preview DShow based - AviSynth Scripts seem to be very gay with the IMediaSeeking Interface (Perhaps this was somehow diffrent with other AVISynth versions, alas gayness seems to depend on the avi loaded via the script, too):
- supports only TIME_FORMAT_MEDIA_TIME
- GetDuration gives me 0

If i have time I could try to revamp it to use vfw.

As I dont know too much about this stuff, can AVISynth somehow be modded to support frame based access (or access at all to seeking to be precise) via DShow? Or is the fault burried in the system?

EDIT:
I just had another look at it.
- Neither WiMP nor GraphEdit can seek in AVS files.
- ZoomPlayer somehow CAN! Now if I only could find out how...

Cheers
Belgabor

[UGAthecat]

I'm no genius on the innards of AVISynth, but I started working on a script builder myself using VB, and I used VFW calls to get dimensions, framerate, length, etc from AVS files with no problems, and with your noted issues accessing AVS from directshow, I would guess that AVISynth just doesn't work 100% unless accessed with VFW.
neway, just my 1/2 cent

[Marc FD]

Okay. that what i've make so far. I've coded 30 hours to get it (i'm a not a GENIUS :D ).
IF - you don't like it
OR - want something else
OR - want to code it yourself (because you're a GENIUS in programming and you can code a prog in 3 hours)
THEN say it IMMEDIATLY please :
i don't like to work for nothing (like everyone i think :cool: )
If you can read delphi, i can give you the sources (600 lines), just e-mail me (see blw).

DL it on my site (url in my sign).

[Koepi]

I don't want to render anyone's work useless.

I just want to express that I'd like a GUI which makes "usual tasks" much easier and faster (cropping, resizing, some simple standard filters), and that you can add what you want manually into the script via an built-in editor from that GUI.

Please, don't misunderstand me there.

Regards,
Koepi

[Marc FD]

It's exactly what my prog will do.
Do you want to code it ??
(Becasue It's not very clever to to twice the
same thing)
if you want to code it, i would be better to try to work together
i can make an huge effort and code in C if
the code is clear and well commented :D

[Koepi]

I think that I already code enough ;) And since you already started, why not move on? :)

Regards,
Koepi

[Marc FD]

did you try my little preview ??
Excuse-me what do you think with "move on" ???
was meinst du ??

[Koepi]

Sorry, nope, hadn't have the time to check your tool.

"move on" means to continue with what you started - why should you throw away (more than) 30 hours of work? Just continue to develop it! :)

C'est que je voudrait dire avec ca.

[Milkman Dan]

Add a font-size adjustment, and that would make me happy.

Reminds me of TextPad.

[Marc FD]

@ all
has anyone tested it ??
I don't want to rush like i do when i'm habitualy coding
(eg 12h/day :devil: ) because i was colded by a malloc bug
who annihilated 20 hours of work !
If s.o. has any gifts in Delphi, he could help me a bit
or just correct my errors or code some parts of the code
i need because creating a text editor from scratch
( i only use a DelphiX for the DirectX surface :D )
is much harder than i thought...:rolleyes:

@ Koepi
du kannst immer probieren :) , haber ich bin sicher dass
mein Deutsh besser als dein Französich ist :D
(ich macht nur zu viele fehler , wie in Engl./Franz.)

[Richard Berg]

Haven't tried it yet -- actually, didn't even notice it was up yet (had just been skimming for attachments, forgot about your website).

Mein Deutsch ist sehr schlecht, aber ich kann Französich lesen überhaupt nicht...

[The Link]

@ Marc FD

I just downloaded the alpha...
well... it works and there´s no error message though I don´t know what I should test with your prog at this early stage.
One thing: The key reaction is very slow!
Sorry if I´m just ignorant :D

Regards

The Link

[Koepi]

Hm, dunno if I can help you much there, but maybe this link is of use:

http://www.swissdelphicenter.ch/torry/oberflaeche.php

Regards,
Koepi

P.S.: We don't want to boost with our lack of language knowledge, right? ;)I think it's enough if we meet in the middle and can discuss in english.
(Btw. I never wrote anywhere that I know french well, I always wrote the opposite. But my turkish sucks even more ;) )

[dividee]

Hi Marc
your editor works ok so far but hasn't much functionnality.
Like Richard, I think you shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel: reusable components are a good thing that happened to software industry.

Tu peux apprendre beaucoup de choses comme ça mais plus probablement tu vas t'épuiser à la tâche et te frustrer.

@All:
For those using UltraEdit, here is a little file containing syntax definition for avisynth. Go to Advanced/Configuration.../Syntax Highlighting, open the wordlist and paste the contents of this file at the end (you should check that you don't have another /L10 defined). You can then configure colors,... in the Syntax Highlighting tab.
I included some plugins, but my intention wasn't to be exhaustive; you should modify it yourself if your favorite filter isn't highlighted as it should.

[Marc FD]

...that the kind of things i awaited.
It's why i've slow down my work on DxAVSEdit...
Don't want to work for nothing :rolleyes:
BUT i think i will improve more this prog
soon. (i need some tools i don't have now)
(if anyone want to help :D )
BECAUSE i'm not sure that UltraEdit can
bring you Alpha-Filtering/Blending and
realtime AVS playback
(i'm dreaming of a prog where you type your
script on the windows who play your script :cool:)
AND i'm not sure that UltraEdit can show
custom dialogs for filters :confused:
AND UltraEdit is not a freeware :devil:BUT AviSynth is a freeware
(from what i know...)

But i won't blame you : i things many many guys
who are used with omnipad will use and improve
your "patch" (dunno how to name it)
and i would too if didn't hated to use this prog
(i cracked it a while ago and only used once...
I can't remember why...:devil: )

Soo i think it's a positive action
but some users want probably (i do) MORE
and the AviSynth Editor of my dreams is
far, far away from UltraEdit... :)
(far, far away from my version too :( )

[dividee]

Sorry Marc, you understood me wrong. I wasn't trying to stop you from developing you editor. In fact, I encourage you to continue.

Some syntax highlighting doesn't make UltraEdit the ultimate avisynth editor. It's far from the editor of my dreams too. It's just a little something I did in 30 minutes which I think could interest other users.

[Marc FD]

Sorry Marc, you understood me wrong. I wasn't trying to stop you from developing you editor. In fact, I encourage you to continue.

Thanks. But it's really hard to "reinvent the wheel" has richard said.
In fact, I've never seen a Avisynth Editor so the so-called "wheel" does not exist. Of course, creating an all around Text editor with code oriented features like highlighting (oups) was my first idea but has richard say it's more easier to do what you have done (i've not see it working for the reasons you konow)
But to create something who does not exist, i need to create it from scratch and here the problems come..:(

But i keep trying, and i write for this prog alot each day ;)
And when i would have the tools i need, i hope i could implement more serious features :cool: , anyway i create a script editor, and to edit a script we need a text editor, so the code i write is important too (it's what i try to think :D )

[HongKongFu]

DVX 2.15 has an AviSynth Editor built in, there is not much feedback about DVX so far at Doom9, ok original it is a DVB tool, but it works with DVD's as well. Perhabs at least, can somebody tell what's so bad about it

cu fu

[Dark-Cracker]

Hi,

i have tested your avisynth editor but it was very slow , i suppose it because it use the draw fonction instead of using the text function. i think the best solution (=~95 % sure :) ) it to use the richtextbox, and a file to store the keyword. i have make an little exemple in VB (i do it because it will be integrated in autodub) with an Richtextbox and a XML file (i have use only 4 keyword but with the good old notepad and the dividee list file u can add more).

http://www.eclipsedvd.firstream.net/autodub/EditorAVS.zip

i know u don't use Vb but perhaps by seing this exemple u will change your way for your editor.

@Marc
I am not here to concurrence your avisynth editor , i have only post an exemple because i integrate to Autodub some functions that can help u to get a better solution for the development of YOUR avisynth editor :)

PS: u must use some space after the keyword stored in the .xML file.

(Marco :) je te met juste ce petit mot o cas ou prenne mal ce post en pensant ke je ve concurrencer ton programme mais comme j'integre a autodub un editeur de script en couleur je poste un exemple de ce ke cela pe donner, je suis sur ke tu prendra pas mal ce post mais bon on sait jamais o cas ou tu serai un gas parrano :) )

[Marc FD]

has i said it before, a richtext was the first thing i tried to do...
but it had not worked (but it could work, i have not really wotked on)

I think i'll wait for Dark-cracker to create the best editor he can and then i will port the code from VB to delphi (i think i can read VB, it musn't have so much changed since VB 3 :D )
And try to improve it a MAX with tons of cool features :cool:
But i hope dark-cracker would make more than syntax highlighting because i have already implemented it with a richtextbox (it was the first thing i've made) and it took me 30 sec' (+ 30' sec for file import..).

I still try some other things... Wait'n'see...

@Dark
Bon ben vas y montre ce que tu peux faire mais essaye vraiment de sortir tes tripes de programmeur :devil: et de faire un truc qui assure :cool: après quand t'en auras marre (ou que tu seras trop limité par VB) t' auras qu'a me passer tes sources en VB et je boosterait un peu tout ca ( :D + :cool: )

PS : je suis pas paranno : la preuve : priorité a ceux qui ont la "rage" de coder :devil:

@All

I'm very curious to see what would dark-cracker do. I hope he will release soon a little alpha to see what's an Dark-made Avisynth Editor

[HongKongFu]

automatically seek right back to the same frame

this can be done with DVX v2.16b, just copy the frame number to the clipboard and hit "VirtualDub"

cu fu

[Marc FD]

what is DVX ?? seems cool.
Ok, i'll give a try :)

[Marc FD]

AAARRGH !!!!
a 3.38 Mbytes big file for only an avisynth editor ???
I dunno if your ripp pack worth it but i will not use my little
56K to download such big files only to see an editor ....

Sorry :(

[HongKongFu]

I guess the .NET Framework you need to run a .NET program is 20 MB so you are at 25 MB, sorry

[Dark-Cracker]

LOL :) :) :)

>But i hope dark-cracker would make more than syntax highlighting

u can add more hightlight word by editing the .xml file

>because i have already implemented it with a richtextbox (it was the >first thing i've made) and it took me 30 sec' (+ 30' sec for file >import..).

it's not a race for me :) but i have implemented this feature in 29 sec :cool: :cool: :cool:


Bon ben vas y montre ce que tu peux faire mais essaye vraiment de sortir tes tripes de programmeur et de faire un truc qui assure après quand t'en auras marre (ou que tu seras trop limité par VB) t' auras qu'a me passer tes sources en VB et je boosterait un peu tout ca ( + )

PS : je suis pas paranno : la preuve : priorité a ceux qui ont la "rage" de coder


j'aurais bien voulu sortir mes tripes de programmeur :) mais un nouveaux job me prend tout mon temp et comme ma devise c "place a l'argent" donc je ne sortirais pas de version alpha :) mais bon si tu ve les sources pas de problémes :) mais effectivement le ricthtextbox est limité aprés ca dépend ce ke tu ve faire comme options diverses :)

>I'm very curious to see what would dark-cracker do. I hope he will >release soon a little alpha to see what's an Dark-made Avisynth Editor.

No time to make and full editor, i will only add my exemple to autodub for editing the script before starting the encoding process.

Good luck for your nextrelease :)

[Marc FD]

I see ...
will have to work alone then :(
currently i'm a little depressed because i can't
make what i want (i just lose my time:( )
so i think i will try sometimes to improve it
when i'm in a good mood :)
if anyone is in hurry, make it yourself,
i'm good at rewriting well commented sources :)

(i say rewrite because i'm one of the very very
few delphi programmers on the planet an i'm
surrounded by C/C++ programmers :D )

@HKfu
25 Mbytes !!! you want to kill me ??
do you REALLY need the M$ .NET framework
to make your prog ?? it looks a run-time :(

[HongKongFu]

@Marc FD

probably we all gone need .NET, all MS products are targeted to .NET and Borland is working on to make their products .NET compatible as well. I don't know exact why it must be a runtime, I hope it's not only because MS wants to sell us software from the internet

@all

I've improved the AviSynth editor of DVX and made a new screenshot (4 MB, I got only a modem too :( ), there is no fancy stuff like syntax highlighting or IntellSense, but it's better than notepad.
If there is somebody who wants to code a powerfull editor and also wants to get in touch with C#, maybe he want to take a look into SharpDevelop source code, SharpDevelop supports syntax highlighting and IntelliSense

cu fu

[Marc FD]

it could be interesting but i think i will learn C++ before C# :)