telecide

[Mosaic]

I am doing an NTSC 92% interlaced movie and I see DVD2SVCD makes an avsynth script with decimate and telecide.

What are those operations.......

And is there anyway i can suppress the resize part of the script without stopping the proicess to edit the script?

[sandchar99]

Try these additional settings:

1) DVD2AVI tab --> Force Field "off".
2) Conversion Tab --> Blend Fields (faster)or SmartDeinterlace (slower, possibly worse result)

See how it works.

:)

[manono]

Hi-

If he follows your suggestion sandchar99 he'll be stuck at 29.97fps and a lower quality movie than if he were able to IVTC it and bring it down to 23.976fps.

Mosaic-If DVD2AVI shows it as NTSC at 92%, that doesn't mean it's 92% interlaced. I believe it can probably be IVTC'd (use Telecide-Decimate), but you haven't provided enough information to be sure.

You might read this Sticky here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23776) to try and understand what's going on and why Telecide-Decimate is the right way to go if possible.

[Mosaic]

Whats the difference

Also ....I observe in DVD2avi playback that the the coded frames vs the played frames are slowly developing a difference. This is odd.....since for pure interlace they are supposed to be the same. I see an "error" of about 30 frames every thousand.

[manono]

Hi-

Telecining is the process of converting film at 23.976fps (like in a movie theater) to 29.97fps to conform to the DVD specs for playing on NTSC type televisions. That was explained clearly in the Sticky thread to which I pointed you. To return it to its original progressive frames and 23.976fps, you perform IVTC (or Inverse Telecine).

Telecide is Donald Graft's (creator of Decomb) term for reconstructing the original frames. Telecide combined with Decimate performs IVTC.

Got it? Clear as mud? I can't help you with the second part of that last post as I didn't understand any of it. But sources that can be IVTC'd are not pure interlace, so maybe that explains what you're seeing.

[Mosaic]

maybe the movie is badly telecined.....because....for pure interlace coded fames = playback frames and for telecined frames 23.98 frames coded = 29.97 playback.

Well...this ain't whats happening.

I see every couple hundred frames of playbck in dvd2avi ....I get a momentary flick to progressive and then back to ntsc....this results in "dropped" frames as far as the coded count goes.

Further to this ....at the end of the Tmpgenc pass 1 ....avisynth reports a video stream error.....and stops frame serving. Sucks....I have done this 3 times....with different approaches to de-interlace and it happens every time. At 13 hours per pass.

[sandchar99]

Originally posted by manono

If he follows your suggestion sandchar99 he'll be stuck at 29.97fps and a lower quality movie than if he were able to IVTC it and bring it down to 23.976fps.

Mosaic-If DVD2AVI shows it as NTSC at 92%, that doesn't mean it's 92% interlaced. I believe it can probably be IVTC'd (use Telecide-Decimate), but you haven't provided enough information to be sure.


In my experience, nearly 3 out of 4 times when region 1 shows 92%, it is interlaced, especially concert films. (1 recent exception, NINE INCH NAILS "And all that could have been"-- NTSC 100%, not interlaced). Try ForceFilm off and Preview movie and look at several of the frames. If you see interlacing on some of the frames then try BlendFields.

Good luck.

[jggimi]

Hmmm...

Content that had a standard Telecine process done to it -- when examined frame-by-frame at 29.97fps -- will show 2 interlaced frames out of every 5. "Force FILM" will use the metadata in the mpeg2 video stream to eliminate those 2 interlaced frames.

But sometimes, even with a standard process, the mpeg2 metadata can't be used, and Force FILM won't work.

The gory details of Telecine are in www.doom9.org/synch.htm

Even if the Telecine is non-standard -- a different rate than 3:2 -- Telecide can usually reconstruct the frames properly. However, Force FILM must be turned off so that all frames go through it.

Decimate will eliminate the extra frames after Telecide re-assembles and deinterlaces them.

You should have documentation on the Decomb filter suite in there somewhere. I'm not a DVD2SVCD user, so I can't point you to the exact place. Search on "decomb" and you should find the file in one of the folders.

I hope this helped.

[manono]

sandchar99-

If it is pure interlace from a video source, it will always show as NTSC (100%)-always. But-even some that show as NTSC can still be IVTC'd (as you implied with the 9 Inch Nails comment). I think you could stand some serious study of hakko504's invaluable Sticky also.

Quoting from the Sticky:

Correct, a truly interlaced source can not be IVTC'd. Unfortunately for us, DVD2AVI can not distinguish between bad telecining and genuine interlace. They will both appear in the statistics window as NTSC.

Ordinarily, if it shows as 92% NTSC, it can be IVTC'd. There's one major exception to that, and that's if it's a hybrid (mix of video and film source-there's a chance that's what Mosaic has). Your advice to Mosaic to look at the frames was good advice. Your advice to him to BlendFields (and keep at 29.97fps? You weren't clear) if he sees any interlacing at all was bad advice.

[sandchar99]

Originally posted by manono

If it is pure interlace from a video source, it will always show as NTSC (100%)-always. But-even some that show as NTSC can still be IVTC'd (as you implied with the 9 Inch Nails comment).....

Correct, a truly interlaced source can not be IVTC'd. Unfortunately for us, DVD2AVI can not distinguish between bad telecining and genuine interlace. They will both appear in the statistics window as NTSC.

Ordinarily, if it shows as 92% NTSC, it can be IVTC'd. There's one major exception to that, and that's if it's a hybrid (mix of video and film source-there's a chance that's what Mosaic has). Your advice to Mosaic to look at the frames was good advice. Your advice to him to BlendFields (and keep at 29.97fps? You weren't clear) if he sees any interlacing at all was bad advice.

I agree. I do not completely understand Interlacing and IVTC. But my point is this: many DVDs are "tricky". My points are...

1) Sometimes it takes playing around with settings. It helps to do just 1 chapter.

2) It helps to use the "preview" function. I also always load the project into DVD2AVI and look at a lot more frames. I yearn for the days when DVD2SVCD ran DVD2AVI as a window and not as a commandline.

3) ForceFilm is great but sometimes back-ups have to be done at 29.97 even though we would rather have it other ways. This is especially true when a user wants to be able to view SVCDs on the PC and not just on the set top DVD player.

Thanks for the education.

:)