.bin size wrong with CCE

[Jason28]

Recently I have been converting Cowboy Bebop to SVCD. Every once in a while I will do an encode and I will end up with a .bin file that is about 750 megs. Normally the size of the .bin file is about 450 megs. The reason why this is a problem is because when burned and played on my standalone I will get bad stuttering and skipping, but when I play it with a software DVD player there is no problems. The weird thing is that I will encode another episode with the exact same settings from the same DVD and the .bin file is the right size. The only way that I have been able to fix the problem is if I use TMPG.

For example the 1st episode of Cowoboy Bebop that I converted with CCE was the wrong file size. I play the image with WinDVD and there is no problems. I burned it (from 4x all the way up 32x) and when I play it in my Apex DVD it starts to skip and stutter (both the audio and sound). Then I convert the file again but this time I use TMPG and when its done I have the right size file and I can play it in both WinDVD and my standalone player.

Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this? Right now I am at work, tomorrow I will post a log file from a CCE encode that is the wrong file size and then I will post the log from a TMPG encode of the same episode.

[gerti67]

Hi Jason28,

...tomorrow I will post a log file from a CCE encode that is the wrong file size...Very good idea. ;)

Do you use 1-Pass-VBR with CCE? If so, you can sometimes end up with wrong filesizes because they aren't predictable very good in this mode.

Greetings,
Gerti

[Jason28]

@gerti67
Yes i used 1 pass VBR. Its just kinda weird that I can encode the same episode agian and again with CCE 1 pass VBR and it will always be wrong. Is there anything that I can do with 1 pass or do I have to use multipass VBR? Anyway here is the log file from the 1st epsiode of Neon Genesis. This is 1 pass VBR and it creats a .bin file that is 758 megs.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 12:35:29 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.0.9 build 2
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 12:35:31 PM
- Free on drive E: 5655.06 mb
- Internal rip
--------------------------------------------------------
Preparing vobfiles to be ripped:
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_1.vob
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_2.vob
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_3.vob
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_4.vob
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_5.vob

Ripping: E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_1.vob
Ripping finished. Speed: 8825

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 12:37:18 PM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\VTS_01_1.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film NOT activated!
Framerate: 29970
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 12:38:01 PM
- Free on drive E: 4741.41 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 12:38:42 PM
- Free on drive E: 4711.16 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~3\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~3\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
Audio conversion of E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 12:40:37 PM
- Free on drive E: 4675.84 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 771186864
AudioSectors: 37637180
VideoPAPO: 11363076
ScanOffsetBytes: 47516
SeqAligningBytes: 3019931
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 719119156.40
Seconds: 1326.22
CalcMPEGStream: 719119156.40
Frames: 39597
CDSize: 740.00
Cut point 735.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 39597
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 5
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 5
Min. bitrate: 900
Max. bitrate: 2230
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\SIMPLE~1\SIMPLE~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~3\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
SimpleResize(480,480)
ResampleAudio(44100)
----AVS End----

Closing program
CCE Max Speed: 0.830
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 1:20:10 PM
- Free on drive E: 3950.02 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 1:20:12 PM
- Free on drive E: 3950.02 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 1:20:14 PM
- Free on drive E: 3950.02 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 735 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 1:23:41 PM
- Free on drive E: 3219.27 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
1266.528 seconds E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 1:24:19 PM
- Free on drive E: 3219.25 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 3

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --verbose --cue-file="E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "E:\Neon Genesis\episode one CCE\VCDXBuild_Script_1.xml"
CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/27/2002 1:26:46 PM
- Free on drive E: 2478.31 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------

[Jason28]

Now here is an encode of the same episode off of the same DVD but I used TMPG and this time the bin file is 453 megs.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 5:22:14 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.0.9 build 2
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 5:22:16 PM
- Free on drive E: 7925.13 mb
- Internal rip
--------------------------------------------------------
Preparing vobfiles to be ripped:
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_1.vob
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_2.vob
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_3.vob
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_4.vob
- E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_5.vob

Ripping: E:\Neon Genesis\video_ts\VTS_01_1.vob
Ripping finished. Speed: 9847

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 5:23:52 PM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\VTS_01_1.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film NOT activated!
Framerate: 29970
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 5:24:33 PM
- Free on drive E: 7011.47 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 5:25:16 PM
- Free on drive E: 6981.22 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~2\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~2\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
Audio conversion of E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 5:27:10 PM
- Free on drive E: 6945.91 mb
- Video Encoding using TMPGEnc
--------------------------------------------------------
Pointers: 840
- Encoding Test Clip E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 771186864
AudioSectors: 37637180
VideoPAPO: 11363076
ScanOffsetBytes: 35637
SeqAligningBytes: 2264948
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Seconds: 1326.22
CalcMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Frames: 39597
CDSize: 740.00
Cut point 735.00
Calculated Quality Value: 80.00
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~2\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
BicubicResize(480,480,0.00,0.55)
----AVS End----

Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\TMPGEnc-2.56.39.143-Free\TMPGEnc.exe" "E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 771186864
AudioSectors: 37637180
VideoPAPO: 11363076
ScanOffsetBytes: 35637
SeqAligningBytes: 2264948
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Seconds: 1326.22
CalcMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Frames: 39597
CDSize: 740.00
Cut point 735.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 8132.9145
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 18180.3171528146
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.00983657211692069
Test Clip: New CQ value: 178.832000782151
Test Clip3: Calculated CQ value: 129.416000391076
Calculated Quality Value: 129.42
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~2\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
BicubicResize(480,480,0.00,0.55)
----AVS End----

Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\TMPGEnc-2.56.39.143-Free\TMPGEnc.exe" "E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 771186864
AudioSectors: 37637180
VideoPAPO: 11363076
ScanOffsetBytes: 35637
SeqAligningBytes: 2264948
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Seconds: 1326.22
CalcMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Frames: 39597
CDSize: 740.00
Cut point 735.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 10440.257
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 18180.3171528146
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.012395863472621
Test Clip: New CQ value: 225.360729315239
Test Clip2: Calculated CQ value: 177.388364853158
Calculated Quality Value: 177.39
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~2\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
BicubicResize(480,480,0.00,0.55)
----AVS End----

Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\TMPGEnc-2.56.39.143-Free\TMPGEnc.exe" "E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 771186864
AudioSectors: 37637180
VideoPAPO: 11363076
ScanOffsetBytes: 35637
SeqAligningBytes: 2264948
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Seconds: 1326.22
CalcMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Frames: 39597
CDSize: 740.00
Cut point 735.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 10482.321
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 18180.3171528146
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.0169226228478557
Test Clip: New CQ value: 307.658650431483
Test Clip1: Calculated CQ value: 242.52350764232
Calculated Quality Value: 242.52
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~2\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
BicubicResize(480,480,0.00,0.55)
----AVS End----

Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\TMPGEnc-2.56.39.143-Free\TMPGEnc.exe" "E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\AviSynth_Script_file.avs
StreamSectors: 771186864
AudioSectors: 37637180
VideoPAPO: 11363076
ScanOffsetBytes: 35637
SeqAligningBytes: 2264948
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Seconds: 1326.22
CalcMPEGStream: 719886018.30
Frames: 39597
CDSize: 740.00
Cut point 735.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 10435.072
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 18180.3171528146
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.0232411915933422
Test Clip: New CQ value: 422.53223417629
Test Clip0: Calculated CQ value: 332.527870909305
Using Quality Value: 100.00
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\NEONGE~1\EPISOD~2\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
BicubicResize(480,480,0.00,0.55)
----AVS End----

Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\TMPGEnc-2.56.39.143-Free\TMPGEnc.exe" "E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 7:33:02 PM
- Free on drive E: 6533.95 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 7:33:04 PM
- Free on drive E: 6533.95 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 7:33:06 PM
- Free on drive E: 6533.95 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 735 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 7:35:04 PM
- Free on drive E: 6097.95 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
1319.208 seconds E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 7:35:27 PM
- Free on drive E: 6097.94 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 3

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --verbose --cue-file="E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "E:\Neon Genesis\Episode one\VCDXBuild_Script_1.xml"
CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 6/26/2002 7:36:59 PM
- Free on drive E: 5655.31 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------

[gerti67]

Hello Jason28,

usually CCE is more precise than TMPGEnc when speaking of the filesizes - but as I said before, when using 1-Pass-VBR it is very hard for CCE to correctly keep the filesize within the given limits.

Only thing you can try to help is when lowering the Q. Factor to "1" perhaps and to not restrict the Min or Min.avg bitrate settings. You are using "900" for the Min instead of the default "300" - best thing would be to set it to "0" - the more precisely CCE can calculate and shift the bits per image.

But CCEs real strength is the Multipass-VBR mode and from my point of view it's really worth the extra time - I usually do a 4-pass-VBR but 3-pass is also very good already - I never was pleased with the visual quality a 1-Pass-VBR gave me but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

So if your PC is not that slow I would do at least a 2-Pass-VBR and see the result.

And with the always same too large filesize - it really is not surprising because if you don't change anything with your settings and always try the same episode then why should the result should be different? - It's always the same algorithms so the result will always be the same - if they fail in keeping within the given limits the first time they will do the next time. ;)

With TMPGEnc for this episode it is better but I bet there will be some day some episodes where the result will change and TMPGEnc might create a too big image file.

So to end it all up, the only way to have exact filesizes is to do a Multipass-VBR also with TMPGEnc (you can set it for 2-Pass-VBR also instead of CQ-Mode) or you use the constant bitrate mode with them but I only do this if my average bitrate is above 2300 kbit.

Hope this helps,
Gerti

[Jason28]

Gerti67,

Thanks for the replys. I will try the things that you mentioned and see if I can get it to work.

I use the settings that are listed in this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13435&highlight=Good+CCE and I think that it looks almost as good as the DVD. I have made test chapters with these settings and the sharpen settings that markrb uses and can see a little diff in quality for the sharpen filter, but I dont think that the time diff that it takes for me to do it is worth the small increase in visual settings.

Have you ever tried these settings? What do you think of them?