Gknot?

[ilitherian]

I use smart ripper, then dvdtoavi, then vfapi, then virtual dub with divx 5.0.2 pro. I use Gunnar Thalin's de-interlace, and i don't "blend instead of interpolate". Under DIVX i use "Use GMC" and "bi-directional encoding" and I use a MV file. I crop using null transform. I use VBR MP3 audio, and i cut out the credits. I have been using 720 bitrate, 2 pass encoding. My movies turn out okay, but i have downloaded a few that were alot better than mine are. I was wondering if i was doing something wrong, like maybe i shoud use Gknot to estimate my bitrate for me or something. If you can see something I am doing wrong, or a better way to do it, please tell me. Thanks for your time.

-Cody

[aleksander]

Well..
All I can tell you that there are hundreds of ways of doing movies.
Movies released by Groups are mostly done with divx 3.11 and Nandub. You can try that. Few of them use Xvid nowadays. You can try that.
Some people play with the divx5.xx settings a lot. You can try that.
Everything is just of a questionable nature. For me (for example), the movie done by you can be of a good quality and downloaded of very bad. For someone else it can be the opposite.
Ok - you can try Gknot for doing proper resizing. Use different filters (smoothing, resizing), use Avisynth (a lot easier) instead of Vfapi, try everything that has been said above.

take care

[diji1]

hi ilitherian,

as well as what aleksander said i would add: get with the times and start using vorbis audio instead of mp3 - ogg media stream files ( a container format that can contain vorbis ) are easier to navigate around in and vorbis produces more or less equivalent quality sound to mp3 at 1/2 the same bitrate ( providing it's low bitrate which is what u seem to want ).

using gknot is an excellent idea - basically u can use it for automating everything or just a number of small tasks in the process of getting the backup, such as estimating the bitrate properly or producing avs ( avisynth ) files easily. the compression check is pretty essential imho ... maybe i am wrong but u say u use 720 bitrate - i assume u mean _all_ the time, big nono: use the compression check if nothing else to ascertain a "correct" bitrate for every film.

always remember its a tough call anyways - no two movies are the same compression wise and everybody has their own idea of quality. i could argue with some ppl till im blue in the face that divx 3.11 is better than divx 5, and they could do the same thing. in the end we are _both_ right if u see what i mean.

good luck. ;-)

[aleksander]

@diji1
Well said :)

take care

[ilitherian]

Which program do you recommend to encode ogg vorbis files? do i need a special codec to play them? I currently use nandub to join final AVI file with audio and to cut out the credits, can i still use this when i switch to ogg vorbis audio? Also, if I use Avisynth instead of vfapi, does it work the same way. . . (take DVDTOAVI file, and convert into avi)? basically, would you explain more about avisyth, and how to do compression checks. On a second note, do you resize your files? Gordian knot (under the resize tab) has some options, but i don't think i want to resize, i just want to crop. It seems that it is forcing me to resize the file. . . the crop is only like 4 on the top and bottom, yet the resolution is at like 704x384. Also. . . if i play around with the slider and make it really small, like 288x160, the bitrate it calculates dosen't change. Am i really lost here or what? Thanks again.
-Cody

[ilitherian]

Oh, yea, i forgot to ask. . . what do you use to deinterlace? I have been using gunthar's filter, but i read last night that telecide was -much- better, what do you recommend? Thanks

[jggimi]

Telecide is not a de-interlacing tool, in and of itself. It is an Inverse Telecine (IVTC) tool, that includes field deinterlacing.

From Decomb_Help.html: "Do not use Telecide on streams that do not contain telecined progressive frames, such as pure interlaced video."

[ilitherian]

so. . . what do you use?

[jggimi]

field deinterlace or greedyHMA. I preview the .avs to determine which looks better.

[ilitherian]

You use gordian knot to encode your video?

[jggimi]

Of course!

(Decomb & GreedyHMA are included)

[ilitherian]

how do you do your audio? what do you use to encode ogg vorbis?

[jggimi]

Me? I use mp3. To see how all this is done, I recommend Doom9's DivX5 guide.

[Emp3r0r]

again, read doom's guides: they tell you how to put vorbis with your videos

[diji1]

ilitherian : Which program do you recommend to encode ogg vorbis files?

ogg machine ( which requires besweet ) ... oggdrop to encode wav. there's also some other app that i won't recommend any more, pretty easy to find dat one too tho.


ilitherian : do i need a special codec to play them?

yes. ogg direct show filters. ull need the subtitle filter also if u intend playing subs in ur movies ... latest zoomplayer has the sub filter built in.


ilitherian : currently use nandub to join final AVI file with audio and to cut out the credits, can i still use this when i switch to ogg vorbis audio?

definitely not. use oggmux and oggcut for those operations.


ilitherian : if I use Avisynth instead of vfapi, does it work the same way ... ? basically, would you explain more about avisyth.

avisynth is another form of frameserving ( like vfapi ). it has a speed advantage over vfapi in certain situations. avisynth is really just a text file with the .avs file extension - it is a "fake avi" in much the same way vfapi is. quite easy to make up once u know what ur doing, gordian knot make it easy if u don't.


ilitherian : do you resize your files? ... but i don't think i want to resize, i just want to crop. It seems that it is forcing me to resize the file. . . the crop is only like 4 on the top and bottom, yet the resolution is at like 704x384 ...

well, i always resize ... if u don't want to do any resizing it may not make sense to use gordian knot for the compression test ( no point if u aren't intending on res changing right )


ilitherian : if i play around with the slider and make it really small, like 288x160, the bitrate it calculates dosen't change. Am i really lost here or what?

change to "calculate avi file size" on the bitrate tab if it suits.


ilitherian : Am i really lost here or what?

well, sounds like you need to read a gknot guide and follow it for at least one movie i think. that will teach you compression check and the "automated" way of using gknot ( is the "old" guide there still - i haven't checked in a while, no matter )

have a look at this page (http://www.doom9.org/ogg.htm) page for a guide for making ogg media streams.

[ilitherian]

So i made my ogg file. . . so far so good, but when I go to combine it with oggmux, the output wants to be .ogm. what program can i use to compbine to an avi file? also, once I combine the audio with the video, can I work with the final avi file in virtual (or nan) dub? I would like to do this to cut out the credits easily, and split the file for 2 cd's

[Jacker]

When u use OGG audio, u use OGG Mux to combine the final avi (movie avi + credits avi) with as many sound streams as u want, and as many subtitles (str files) as u want. If u want to split in two CDs, u can use the OGG Mux feature Split At or use the Ogg Cutter (which is keyframe accurate).

And u can't use Nandub or Vdub with the OGM file, sorry. But, what do u need it for? If u want to use it for your credits, append them before using Ogg Mux.

Try reading Doom9 guide. It's really worth the time (as all his guides :D ).

Good luck!

[diji1]

ilitherian : the output wants to be .ogm. what program can i use to compbine to an avi file ?

... welll, u cannot make a true avi with vorbis - but why would u want to i might ask ? Ogg Media Streams are superior to the avi format and afaik u cannot use ogg audio in avi :)...

u can use oggcut to cut ur credits, BUT why encode them if u are going to cut them out ? u can cut them out at the dvd2avi stage very easily ...

as for cutting, yes it isn't perfect in oggcut yet, u basically have to trial and error it to get a particular filesize but eventually it will be as easy as nandub i imagine. its a very new format compared to avi so were still waiting for these things.

[ilitherian]

I would rather have AVI so i can loan cd's esaily to my friends so they can watch them, and most of the video tools use avi files. I don't understand why nandub dosen't support ogg, under audio, they have ogg vorbis option. I think i am going to stick with vbr mp3 so i can keeep my AVI's, But thanks alot for the time and effort of answering my questions

[diji1]

yeah, it's there in nandub but does not have real support.

[theReal]

I'm still using mp3 instead of .ogg because you win 64kbit from using ogg at max, but the price is a file that none of your half-to-none-computer-literate friends (that we all have ;) ) are able to play.

What noone mentioned so far is that it is also important what resizing filter you are using. Some filters like precise bilinear in VDub or soft bicubic in avisynth/Gknot can be a lot better for low bitrates. However, neutral bicubic in avisynth/Gknot looks the best if the bitrate is sufficient.
Using Gknot (and the compress test) makes it a lot easier to determine what resolution you should use and if you should consider using filters (like temporalsmoother). A lot of these downloaded 2.5 hour one-cd movies are filtered to make them more compressible. Well chosen filter-settings can make a movie look much better at a small bitrate.

[diji1]

i never understand this ... its _so_ easy to burn the appropriate filter(s) on the cd with the movie ..... oh well. just think, ur missing out on 40-60 megs of video quality approximately or way, way higher audio quality. let alone if the ogg name is scary or the mp3 name sounds cooler ;). each to his own thougyh i guess.

theReal : still using mp3 instead of .ogg because you win 64kbit from using ogg at max, but the price is a file that none of your half-to- none-computer-literate friends (that we all have ) are able to play.

i usually use 70 - 90 kbit vorbis for one cds.

[theReal]

If you're using up to 90kbit vorbis, then you gain less than 64kbit. Only something like 30-40kbit. Better than nothing, I know...
I have a vorbis plugin for winamp installed since I first heard of the format. Since then I have been waiting for vorbis files to show up more and more.
I like to use codecs that I can still play in a few years. I'm not sure what is going to happen with vorbis (even though it's better than mp3, but we know that this doesn't matter - we're all using Windows...)