DUAL-CPU and Cinemacraft SP ?!?

[Arky]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Cinemacraft SP does NOT utilise SMP (dual processors), does it?

ChrisBensch reckons both his CPUs on his dualie are being utilised by Cinemacraft - I don't see how this can be, since I believe (perhaps incorrectly?) that Cinemacraft SP is NOT a multi-threaded application:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=17227&highlight=speed+time

As I understand it, ONLY the hardware accelerated pro version (CCE-Pro) can capitalise upon dual processors.

h**p://www.cinemacraft.com/eng/product.html

h**p://www.cinemacraft.com/eng/tech.html#04

*******************************************************************

[ HIGH-SPEED PROCESSING ]

High speed encoding can be assured by using microprocessors that incorporate Intel's MMX and SSE, or AMD's Enhanced 3D Now! technologies. A computer that has dual Pentium III microprocessors, of at least 800 MHz, is recommended for real-time encoding of Full D-1*.

Shown below are system requirements for the entire Cinema Craft Encoder product line.

* CCE-Pro supports real-time encoding of Full D-1.

<Supported CPU>

Xeon processor
Pentium 4 processor
Pentium III processor
Celeron processor (533AMHz or greater)
Mobile Celeron processor (400A/450/500MHz or greater)
AMD Athlon MP processor
AMD Athlon XP processor
Mobile AMD Athlon 4 processor
AMD Athlon processor
AMD Duron processor

*******************************************************************


Therefore, as I see it, only TMPGEnc, and Canopus' ProCoder can run multiple threads across two processors. Although LynchEyes' system uses dual Athlon MP1800s,

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=18043&highlight=speed+time

and even a single MP1800 is pretty damn quick, I do not see how his dual makes Cinemacraft run any quicker than a single Athlon 1800XP (I'm assuming, for argument's sake, that no other applications are running, and I'm >hypothetically ignoring< the CPU overhead of the Operating Sytem itelf). This is of particular interest to me, since I've been floating around the 2cpu.com forum for some months now, deciding whether or not to go for a dual-CPU (Tyan Tiger and Dual AMD 1800MP CPUs) with my new desktop. I concluded that, TMPGEnc aside, there was little point, since there is a tradeoff with other incompatibilities with budget SMP configs. I am literally about to buy a new PC within the next day or so, and have concluded that I'm better off spending my money on a faster single CPU machine (2.26Ghz 533mhz-FSB P4). Much as I like TMPGenc, I fully intend to use Cinemacraft for the most part. If somebody knows FOR A FACT that Cinemacraft can utilise dual processors then please let me know ASAP!!! (no speculation, please - only hard facts if you know them). I can't find any SPECIFIC discussion on this issue on this forum, although I can't help thinking that it must have been covered at some point in the past... The closest I can find is:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=14050&highlight=speed+time

Cheers,


Arky ;o)


http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=23845&highlight=speed+time

[da franksta]

being a moderator you should know not to cross-post.

i answered your question in the other thread

in summary: CCE-SP is indeed multithreaded and SMP aware

[Arky]

Hmmm...well I take your point, but to be honest, I was being more conversational in the other thread than anything else. What's written ABOVE is really my (fully-explained) query, and was written before I finally managed to dig up the other thread :P


Arky ;o)

P.S. I actually e-mailed Cinemacraft, so I'll get a definitive response before too long, hopefully. I do believe you, if you say CCE-SP is MP-aware, but I must say I am surprised that Cinemacraft don't specifically advertise the fact, since it is a worthwhile selling point, and they are quick to specify it on the PRO version. Strange!

[da franksta]

being sleep deprived, i might have sounded a bit cross (no pun intended) :p

looking forward to see their response

[ScooterMyth]

It is SMP aware and it works on my dual P3-700@933 very well.

[Arky]

Dammit - indecision has now struck me again!

Although I was initially very keen to go the (AMD/Tyan) SMP route, I went off the idea because there are AGP incompatibilities with SMP boards, often necessitating the use of PCI graphics cards instead. Furthermore, very few appz DO actually support SMP - it's basically a rendering/encoding thing. Lastly, the chipsets of the single-CPU boards seem to be more up to date than those of the SMP boards. For instance, I wish to use the 533mhz FSB and 333/PC2700 DDRAM, because these can make a dramatic (and often underestimated by the masses, who only tend to look at the CPU Ghz as the supposed bottom line for performance) difference to overall rendering speed and general performance.

I really want top rendering speed, but I think, on balance, despite the increase in brute CPU power that SMP would offer me for encoding/rendering, I will get better ALL ROUND performance with an increase in speed throughout the motherboard/RAM/FSB and a single, but newer, single Pentium CPU.

Why is nothing ever simple?!?! :( :scared: :angry:

Still, thankyou all for your informative contributions, my decision has not been easy, I can tell you! :eek:


Arky ;o)

[mb1]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cinema Craft Encoder SP Release History

Copyright (C) 2000,2001 Custom Technology Corporation. All rights reserved

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Version 2.64.01.02 Tuesday, November 20, 2001

Changes
- Tuned for Dual CPU environment.

----------

Version 2.64.01.00 Wednesday, September 12, 2001

Changes
- Supported VideoCD and Super VideoCD.
- Supported Adobe Premiere 6.0.

[namechamps]

I think if you don't yet have a SMP system you should wait...
The Clawhammer will be an amzing SMP system.
First Clawhammer systems should be out Christmass or Q12003. With speeds of 3000+, 166mhz bus, dual CPU, 8xagp USB2.0 firewire, ATA100, on chip memory controller. Support for PC2700 RAM, independant memory (i.e each CPU gets dedicated memory, but can swap data with other CPU memory over Hypertransport links). 64bit support. This list goes on and on.

I am not saying clawhammers will be gamers systems and they will not be for everyone. However for SMP systems Clawhammers offer so much more than the current Athalon MP with MPX chipset. Most MB have produced their last MP board and are tooling up for the Clawhammer.

The Clawhammer codename will be marketed as a Athalon Pro but will be 100% incompatible with existing motherboards. It uses completely different pin layout and does away with the northbridge.

The Sledgehammer (4-8 processor systems with 1MB on board cache) will be marketed under the Opteron name (not sure on spelling).

This is AMD next major move and they are throwing everything behind it. They are discontinuing the duron line in Q4. The current athalon will become the value chip. Most likely the Athalons (including MP) will max out at 2.4 to 2.6 ghz. They may push it more but unlikely as this will pull thunder from the Clawhammers.

Sorry for the long post but unless you need SMP TODAY you are better off waiting for the clawhammers. If you need RAM today BUT Certified PC2700 it is back compatible with PC2100 and PC1600 but you will be able to throw it on your Clawhammer board and save a couple bucks.

But that is just my 1/50 of $1.

[Arky]

Yeah, thanks MB1 - I got an e-mail from Cinemacraft tech-support confirming that CCESP categorically DOES support SMP:

"CCE is designed by multi-thread and supports dual processors. We recommend you a dual-CPU for high speed MPEG2 encoding as almost two times faster. However, please understand whole processing speed must be less than two times, because it depends on decoder and HDD as well.

This is why we also recommend a PC having two HDDs. If your PC has
only one HDD, it is a bottleneck in whole performance. You should
save a source file and an MPEG file into each HDD separately".

So now I know this, why am I STILL probably going to go for a single Pentium4, rather than a dual-Athlon? Well I just feel that AT THE PRESENT TIME, the Athlons may well compete with all but the latest Pentiums on number crunching, but the 266mhz FSB lags WAY behind that of the P4s on 533mhz - the point being, that the REST of the motherboard is running more slowly with the AMDs. This being the case, I will only get faster results from dual-athlon with SMP-ready appz (which is, in itself great, don't get me wrong), but in every other area of performance, with non-SMP-ready appz (which are in the majority), I'll be losing performance.


Arky ;o)

[Arky]

Regarding the Clawhammer AMDs, I am inclined to agree with you, but my decision is based on the here-&-now. In 9months time, I may well splash the cash on a Clawhammer SMP, since I can still use all my other peripherals/HDDs etc. etc. I look forward to a WORTHWHILE dual-AMD in the future! :devil:


Arky ;o)