Resizing - which of the four, if any, is best?

[1loser]

I'm confused about what the correct size should be to convert an avi to SVCD. Source avi 608 x 320, 25 fps. DVD2SVCD came up with the wrong size for some reason but which of these, if any, would be the best Resize and why?

Also when I use the FitCD sizing it leaves a black border when played on my PC with powerDVD but not on my TV, why is that?

1) DVD2SVCD (AVI2SVCD)
BicubicResize(480,337,0.00,0.60) # definitely wrong
AddBorders(0,119,0,120)

2) I changed it to this but it is probably slighty off
BicubicResize(480,424,0.00,0.60) # 480/424=1.132
AddBorders(0,76,0,76)

3) FitCD (Souce aspect 1:1 monitor, no cropping) I'm not sure if monitor and no cropping are correct to use
BicubicResize(448,382,0,0.6,0,0,608,320) # 448/382=1.1728
AddBorders(16,97,16,97)

4) Should/could I have used this?
BicubicResize(480,410,0.00,0.60) # 480/410=1.1707
AddBorders(0,83,0,83)

[avih]

for svcd: pal: 480x576 (576 is the height). ntsc: 480x480. these resolutions show on the tv screen as full screen 4:3. vcd res is 352x288 (pal, don't remember ntsc). also, (i don't remember as well) svcd might support vcd resolution.

but for best quality, you should crop (prob only horizontally) a section of your clip that has a display aspect ratio of 4:3 (426x320 if your clip is with 1:1 pixel ar) and resize to 480x576/480. you can also go for 16:9, but then you'll have black borders (i hate it) when played on an 4:3 display (such as a normal tv).

also, since your clip has a vertical resolution that's near vcd, i think you should consider that as an option as well.

to test the various resolutions, you can encode a short clip (say, 1 minute) using different methods of resize, and burn ALL (yes, it's possible) these clips to a single svcd (or a single vcd), and test with your stand alone player which one looks best. it is subjective afterall..
good luck ;)

cheers
avi.

[1loser]

Originally posted by avih

to test the various resolutions, you can encode a short clip (say, 1 minute) using different methods of resize, and burn ALL (yes, it's possible) these clips to a single svcd (or a single vcd), and test with your stand alone player which one looks best. it is subjective

Yes, I already did this, before I posted, but wanted to know which was the proper way to achieve the best results. #3 seemed to give me the best results but has the black borders on the left and right sides only when played on my PC but fine on my TV.

Since I spend so much time re-encoding I would like to do it right!

[gerti67]

Hi 1loser,

have a look at the DVD2SVCD Q&A - Q62:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21859

And if you want to combine Q62 with Q64 see this for additional info (my last post): ;)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25379

Hope that helps,
Gerti

[1loser]

Thx gerti67,

I'll have to spent some more time reading that, it's a little hard to digest. I read your comment about FitCD 1.0.3 having a problem with 1:1 monitor for SVCD/DVD, that's the version I just started using. So far i got good results using FitCD 1.0.3.

[frank]

FitCD Source:
Select 1:1 Monitor, non anamorphic, set ITU-R BT601-4
Type in your resolution 608x320 (overwrite 1st line)

Small TV Block overscan 2 blocks = 16 pixel at sides is not visible on television, but improves quality because black blocks spare encoding bits.

# PAL (480x576)
# aspect ratio near 2:1 -> high = 384 is a good choice.
BicubicResize(448,384,0,0.5,0,0,608,318)
AddBorders(16,96,16,96)

# NTSC (480x480)
# high = 320
BicubicResize(448,320,0,0.5,0,0,608,318)
AddBorders(16,80,16,80)

Good luck.
frank

[frank]

Not recommended for TV.
Source 608x320 1:1 Monitor

PAL:
BicubicResize(480,416,0,0.5,2,0,606,320)
AddBorders(0,80,0,80)

NTSC:
BicubicResize(480,352,0,0.5,6,0,596,320)
AddBorders(0,64,0,64)

[1loser]

Originally posted by frank
FitCD Source:
Select 1:1 Monitor, non anamorphic, set ITU-R BT601-4
Type in your resolution 608x320 (overwrite 1st line)

Small TV Block overscan 2 blocks = 16 pixel at sides is not visible on television, but improves quality because black blocks spare encoding bits.

Thx frank, I didn't select ITU-R BT601-4. Should ITU-R BT601-4 be selected for NTSC also?

When I select the source fitcd puts in the correct resolution 608x320. Maybe you mentioned this incase I didn't select the source (not sure).

[frank]

Should ITU-R BT601-4 be selected for NTSC also?
Yes, Sir:cool:
Ok, in this case the 1:1 source is not ITU-R BT601-4 compliant, but FitCD needs it for the right calculations.

That's why the pixel aspect ratio (PAR) is NOT 1:1 in MPEG-2 coded streams (DVD, SVCD, dig. TV).
PAL: PAR = 54/59
NTSC: PAR = 11/10

But there are wrong mastered old DVD's known. Much more confusion exists in MPEG-1 standard.
In some cases you have to test: a circle must be a circle.

Latest version is FitCD v1.0.4
http://mitglied.lycos.de/fitcd/

[gerti67]

Hi there,

some remarks to FitCD:

If you're using FitCD 1.0.3 then frank is right with his suggestion to tick the "ITU-R BT601-4" checkbox. But only for the reason that FitCD 1.0.3 has a bug when using a "1:1 Monitor" source - but be aware this bug is corrected in the 1.0.4 version of FitCD so you have to uncheck this and the only thing you should have checked is wether you're doing PAL or not. You can see this in the FitCD readme as well. And shh (author of FitCD) has confirmed this bug in some German boards also.

FitCD 1.0.4 uses a correct 1:1 pixel aspect ratio now when choosing a "1:1 Monitor" source because checking the "ITU-R BT601-4" box with a monitor source usually doesn't make any sense.

And another one:

You're right frank if you want to resize directly to a horizontal width of 448 but with this you get bigger black borders than with the original (DVD ?) source because you zoom out a bit and you encode the borders on the left and the right that are usually not visible when watching the original DVD on TV. You can only see these borders when watching the DVD with a software player on your PC.

So if you want to see the whole coded original pixels then you're right but if your goal is to make it exactly look like the original DVD size (borders and visible area on TV) than you have to resize to 480 instead. Or you crop some borders before and then resize to 448 horizontal width to avoid encoding the TV overscan area as described in the second thread I linked in my post.

And you're right the whole aspect thing is sometimes a total mess because even the DVD producers don't care about it. ;)

Greetings,
Gerti

[1loser]

Originally posted by gerti67

If you're using FitCD 1.0.3 then frank is right with his suggestion to tick the "ITU-R BT601-4" checkbox. But only for the reason that FitCD 1.0.3 has a bug when using a "1:1 Monitor" source - but be aware this bug is corrected in the 1.0.4 version of FitCD so you have to uncheck this and the only thing you should have checked is wether you're doing PAL or not. You can see this in the FitCD readme as well. And shh (author of FitCD) has confirmed this bug in some German boards also.


******************************************************
* fitCD 1.03 and fitCD1.04 have opposite results *
******************************************************
fitcd 1.03, PAL, WITH (ITU-R BT.601-4) checked
BicubicResize(448,414,0,0.6,0,0,608,320)
AddBorders(16,81,16,81)

fitcd 1.04, PAL, WITHOUT (ITU-R BT.601-4)
BicubicResize(448,414,0,0.6,0,0,608,320)
AddBorders(16,81,16,81)

fitcd 1.03, PAL, WITHOUT (ITU-R BT.601-4)
BicubicResize(448,382,0,0.6,0,0,608,320)
AddBorders(16,97,16,97)

fitcd 1.04, PAL, WITH (ITU-R BT.601-4) checked
BicubicResize(448,382,0,0.6,0,0,608,320)
AddBorders(16,97,16,97)

[1loser]

I corrected my previous post.

fitCD 1.03 and fitCD 1.04 have different results for the above sample using the same settings.