OverBurn ... the good, the bad, and the max

[MikeReid]

Hey there...

I'm not too fond of OverBurning...
I have done so in the past using the Daemon Tools and Nero method... However, the most I have ever OverBurned was under 10 seconds...

Now, I have a movie, w/ credits chopped and play length ends @ 2 hrs 50 mins.

Now..
1 CD-R: 80 min = 1 hr 20 min
2 CD-R: 160 min = 2 hr 40 min

Movie length 2 hr 50 min
CD-R capacity 2 hr 40 min
=========================
amt to overburn? 10 min

as you can see, my movie is approx. ~ 10 min over the 80min CD-R limit.

What I have done is merged the entire MPEG-1 file prepared for VCD burning. I have split it into TWO 85 min MPG files.

My question is if it is safe/possible to overburn by 5 minutes or so?

Is it a risk that I should take, or should I just clip 10 min somewhere in the movie?

I hate to ruin the film in any way, but also I hate the inconvenience of a 3rd disc with only 10 min of video on it.

Alternatively, for the time being, I have split the movie into approx. 3 - 60 min MPG files and burned them to VCDs.

Anyway, what is the most anyone has ever successfully overburned, in seconds, minutes, etc.?

I have an LG 16x/10x/40x CD-RW and I use Memorex 32x 80min/700MB CD-R media...

[ux-3]

check if your drive supports CDR90

[Labersack]

I have sucessfuly burnt 82:30 on an CDR-80 with my LiteOn24/10/40 and my TEAC CDR58S. Never tried more. But it depends much on the CDR itself. I think Fireburner has an option to check the real max. capacity of a CDR.
If you want to be sure, buy some CDR90 or CDR99.
You have to check if your Standalone-player supports this CDR, not all player do so.

[madmuppet]

Why dont you just try a SIMULATED burn with nero and see how much you can burn successfully.
I have got 83min on a 80min cdr with 40X Plextor and Nero though I have not tried more.

[markrb]

There are a couple of long threads on this subject in the advanced forum. Try a search.

Mark

[chainsaw135]

i dont recall the minutes but i've put 830megs on a 80 minute cd.....but like mark said we've been through this before you can do a simple search and find the threads on it..

[MikeReid]

can do...
sorry, I didn't even think to search the ADVANCED forum...
knowing me, I searched the basic/newbie forum...

thanks for the posts, however.

I didn't even know you could buy 90 or 99 MIN CD-R!!! what brand and where?

I normally use Memorex... should I check my cd-rw drive's manufacturer to find out if can burn cd-r 90/99, or what?

[MikeReid]

WTF?
I just went to THREE different stores, and they don't carry 90/99 min CD-Rs???

do I HAVE to buy them online or something, or does anyone have any advice...

it's not like i'm in some small little town either, I live in SLC, UT... pleanty of locations!!!

help!

according to http://www.feurio.com/English/cd_writer.shtml my CD-RW drive is compliant

[mrbass]

http://www.disc4you.com/news/99min.html

look's like LG burners consistently failed overburning at anything higher than 4X. I know your CED-8160B isn't listed but it most likely is the culprit. $63 for lite-on 32X nowadays.

[Sylfest]

There are only a handful of actual cdr manufacturers out there and each manufacturer makes their cdr's a little different. One of the things that usually differ is the max capacity of the cdr, hence the max you can overburn depends on the cdr manufacturer.

The best way of finding the cdr capacity is to use Feurio (www.feurio.com). It has a function called CDR capacity test, that attempts to burn a very large file to a cdr in simulaiton mode. When the burn fails the program simply subtracts the space needed to succesfully complete the lead out, and whoalla you have the max capacity of the cdr in minutes and seconds.

As I mentioned earlier most cdr are a little different so dont assume that the capacity of one manufacturers cdr is the same as another manufacturer. I would actually recommend that you run the test on each brand you want to use.

If you are interested in converting the minutes and seconds to MB just plug your info into the following formuals (depending on what type of cd you are burning:

Audio CD = ((Min+(Sec/60))*4500)/446

CD-Rom Mode 1 = ((Min+(Sec/60))*4500)/512

CD-Rom Mode 2 = ((Min+(sec/60))*4500/448

[MikeReid]

I appreciate all your help..thank you!

I think it's time I upgrade to the 40X plextor...
i'll do some research first, however.

again, thank you

[avdmb]

In summary :
. Overburn 2-3 min is possible. Possibility depends on your burner. Quality/reliability depends on the media, and success decreases when overburn time increases.
. Overburn 5 min is not possible with 80 min/700 MB media. A new burner will not help.
. Most elegant solution in your case is to use 90 min media. Beware that some people have reported problems when playing above 87-88 min on some players, so to be on the safe side, rather burn 85+85 than 80+90.

[chainsaw135]

yeah i own a lite-on myself and i would not buy anything else its the best drive i've owned..

[madmuppet]

I have always bought Plextor as they are the fastest and most precise on the market and worth paying the extra as you get a 2year guarantee as standard.
Anyway I have just got the new Plextor 40/12/40a and it can Overburn up to 95mins using Nero.
Not bad if you need it eh!
Try here for the spec
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:23vMFjDFQ-cC:www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Specific.asp%3FArticleHeadline%3DPleXWriter%2520PX-W4012A%2520CD-RW%26index%3D7+80min+cdr%2Bplextor+maximum+overburn&hl=en&ie=UTF8

[markrb]

Keep in mind in the other threads it became quickly apparrent that the Stand Alone DVD player was the weakest link in the overburning of CD's. Some could play almost to the end while others did not. So while I can burn to 830mb on my burner, my Stand Alone DVD player can only read to 828mb max. If you are planning to play them on your DVD player make sure you test it as well.

Mark

[fgm]

Originally posted by Bach


or you can buy the new Lite-On 48x12x48x (http://www.gotapex.com/reviews.php?rev=misc/48x/index.html)

Or you could buy the Lite-On 32X and overclock it to 48X and save a few bucks in the process :D

[Bubba]

A couple of observations:

* Yes, LITE-ON are one of the best CD Writer on the market. The reason I like them because:
1. All LITE-ON can overburn up to 99:59 (i.e. 99-min CD)
2. Very affordable comparing to Plexwriter (i.e. I bought a 32x12x40 for only $72 including shipping & handling)
3. Produce very good result (i.e. no coaster or bad data).

* Speed use to be the primary goal for burning, but for the newer CD burners, faster speed is not the issue, but producing correct data is the primary goal. At one time to burn a 700MB of data, if you burn at 8x speed, it will take 10 min, at 12x, it will take 7 1/2 min, and at 16x it will take 5 min. So if you have 32x burner, it should take 2 1/2 min, correct? Not so.

When the 24x burners come out about a year ago, it has been noticed that it produced bad data if you burn at the maximum speed of 24x. So manufacturers such as LITE-ON come up with technology such as SMART-BURN (Smart Monitoring & Adapting Recording Technology for BURNing) which assures the user that they will not have to worry about coasters or bad quality media. To burn 700MB of data, a 32x LITE-ON will take 3:57 min, and a 40x will take 3:30 min. So don't expect a 2 1/2 min burn.

* I buy most of the 90-min & 99-min here: http://www.yesbuy.net/
A 50-pack 90-min CD cost $25, and a 50-pack 99-min CD cost $30. Their 80-min CD are not too bad either. A 100-pack 80-min CD cost only $15.

[MikeReid]

Bubba...thank you for the detailed reply!

you have convinced me to purchase a lite-on 32x...
is there any specific model that you would recommend??

also, I have just purchased 50 99-min cd-rs from the website you referred me to...

let's just hope all is well and works!!

thank you!!

[Bubba]

A couple of observations:

* Yes, LITE-ON are one of the best CD Writer on the market. The reason I like them because:
1. All LITE-ON can overburn up to 99:59 (i.e. 99-min CD)
2. Very affordable comparing to Plexwriter (i.e. I bought a 32x12x40 for only $72 including shipping & handling)
3. Produce very good result (i.e. no coaster or bad data).

* Speed use to be the primary goal for burning, but for the newer CD burners, faster speed is not the issue, but producing correct data is the primary goal. At one time to burn a 700MB of data, if you burn at 8x speed, it will take 10 min, at 12x, it will take 7 1/2 min, and at 16x it will take 5 min. So if you have 32x burner, it should take 2 1/2 min, correct? Not so.

When the 24x burners come out about a year ago, it has been noticed that it produced bad data if you burn at the maximum speed of 24x. So manufacturers such as LITE-ON come up with technology such as SMART-BURN (Smart Monitoring & Adapting Recording Technology for BURNing) which assures the user that they will not have to worry about coasters or bad quality media. To burn 700MB of data, a 32x LITE-ON will take 3:57 min, and a 40x will take 3:30 min. So don't expect a 2 1/2 min burn.

* I buy most of the 90-min & 99-min here: http://www.yesbuy.net/
A 50-pack 90-min CD cost $25, and a 50-pack 99-min CD cost $30. Their 80-min CD are not too bad either. A 100-pack 80-min CD cost only $15.

[MikeReid]

Bubba? did you deliberately RE-POST, or am I missing something?

[Bubba]

Mike,

If you go with the LITE-ON 32X, then there is only one model, the LTR-32123S. Same with their 40X, also one model: LTR-40125S. I chose the 32X over the 40X not because of the money (difference is only about $10-$15), but because the 32X was reported to be quieter.

I bought stuff from YesBuy.net for years now. Very reputable. They are based in the L.A. area. My stuff always come in time, so you don't have to worry about that.

Cheers, :)

[Bubba]

Mike,

I don't know what I did, but somehow my article was reposted. I just use the "Preview Reply" and somehow it posted twice. I happened to me in the past also when using "Preview Reply".

[fgm]

If you go with the LITE-ON 32X, then there is only one model, the LTR-32123S. Same with their 40X, also one model: LTR-40125S.

Wrong on both counts:

There are two 32X models: the LTR-32123S that is NOT upgradeable and the LTR-32125W that you can upgrade to 48X.

On the 40X front there are also two models: the LTR-40125S and the LTR-40125W and both can be upgraded to 48X. There are rumors that you will be able to upgrade them to 52X and to the faster 16X and 24X -RW when available.

[Bubba]

fgm,

Thank you for the correction. I guess I did not know anything about the upgradable product from LITE-ON. I just look at the Lite-on products at their official site, and learned more about it. I guess with SMART-BURN (which will dynamically slow down to ensure a correct burn), I don't know faster speed will help out or not.

Cheers, :)

[MikeReid]

I ended up purchasing a 50 pack of 99 min CD-Rs from YesBuy...

then, I purchased the Liteon LTR-40125S 40x12x48 E-IDE CD-RW Drive from http://www.googlegear.com ... I've bought with them before, and the company was founded in 1998 in Silicon Valley by a core of individuals with decades of experience in the computer industry.

Either way, they're items come on time, and packed very well...

So, in about 5 days I expect to have both my CDs and new CD-RW...then I can begin testing!!!

thanks guys!

[fgm]

I guess with SMART-BURN (which will dynamically slow down to ensure a correct burn), I don't know faster speed will help out or not.

Using good media you get a slight speed increase (on the 32X model you ususally get about 26X average; after upgrading to 48X you get about 37X average writting speed), but the real reason to upgrade to 48X is that you get P-CAV and Mount Rainier support ;)

[Bubba]

fgm,

Thank you for the correction. I guess I did not know anything about the upgradable product from LITE-ON. I just look at the Lite-on products at their official site, and learned more about it. I guess with SMART-BURN (which will dynamically slow down to ensure a correct burn), I don't know faster speed will help out or not.

Cheers, :)

[MikeReid]

well, I received my drive in the mail yesterday (LITEON 40x/12x/48x) and it's been amazing...

unfortunately (bubba) yesbuy.net contacted me and said that CD-R 99 media is out-of-stock until next thursday!!! so I guess I'll just have to wait, eh? oh well.

a new question comes to mind, however it doesn't necessarily pertain to DVD2SVCD, so I'll understand any negative criticism if it comes up:

I've never had a LITEON product. Also, I've never burned at any faster than 16x.

Q1. With Lite-on and the new Smart-X technology, etc, can I choose to burn, efficiently, 32x media at 40x speeds? what are the risks, precautions?

Q2. Bubba, what speed capability (?? X) are the CD-R 99 min from yesbuy.net? ... just wondering.

thanks guys, and sorry for the lack of DVD2SVCD content... I just thought the question would be appropriate being that I purchased the drive due to a suggestion from the thread I started and due to it's capabilities for OVERBURNING and 99 MIN CD-R....

oh, and by the way, I just got home from a preview screening of Scooby Doo, from Warner Brothers. It's a clever show!

I also hope everyone is enjoying their summer. I suggest to go and get a Snowcone (Tiger's Blood flavor) for all of you who have the option. I had TWO alone yesterday.

thanks again!

Mike

[Bubba]

To everyone who follows this thread,

I would like to apologize about the "re-posting". I have no idea how my system is doing this. Maybe the "back" button this time?


@Mike

* I don't know what's the rating of the 99-min but the rating of the 90-min CD from YesBuy.net is 16X.
* Most of the guide I read, it suggests to use the speed of 8X (or lower) when overburning 90-min & 99-min media. I always succeed with 8X speed. I tried 12x with the 90-min media, but with the 99-min media I never tried more than 8x. A couple of reason for this. First the 99-min media is more expensive comparing to the others (i.e. 90-min or 80-min), and more importantly, I just don't want to waste time. It usually take me a long time to put together contents to burn a 99-min CD, and so I don't want to have a coaster at the end. Just to save a couple of min of burning time, and got a coaster?!!
* The reason I bought the Lite-on is for the 99-min overburn capability and their accuracy and not for the speed. If the burner can burn a 80-min CD about 5 min (i.e. 16X), I would be quite happy. My TDK VeloCD 16x10x40 perform nicely for years now, but it only can burn up to 93:59. So the Lite-On is for that last 6-min to 99:59.
* With Smart-Burn, maybe we can burn it faster, but to tell you the truth I never tried when overburn 99-min CD.

A note for overburning using Nero with the Lite-On. You have to burn manually. Do not use the Nero Wizard, because the wizard will stop you to overburn. Why? The wizard check for the media size, and it will see a 80-min CD (even though it's a 90-min or 99-min), and so it will complain when you try to burn it. If you turn off the wizard, and check the overburn selection (in File menu Preferences), it will allow you to overburn.

Speaking of summer movie, this year I do like "Spiderman", "Insomnia", "Changing Lanes" and "Bad Company". The Star Wars movie remind me of last Summer hype "Pearl Harbor", the action sequence is great, but the acting suck big time. Come to think of it, acting in "AOTC" is even worse than in "Pearl Harbor".

Cheers, :)

[Bubba]

To everyone who follows this thread,

I would like to apologize about the "re-posting". I have no idea how my system is doing this. Maybe the "back" button this time?


@Mike

* I don't know what's the rating of the 99-min but the rating of the 90-min CD from YesBuy.net is 16X.
* Most of the guide I read, it suggests to use the speed of 8X (or lower) when overburning 90-min & 99-min media. I always succeed with 8X speed. I tried 12x with the 90-min media, but with the 99-min media I never tried more than 8x. A couple of reason for this. First the 99-min media is more expensive comparing to the others (i.e. 90-min or 80-min), and more importantly, I just don't want to waste time. It usually take me a long time to put together contents to burn a 99-min CD, and so I don't want to have a coaster at the end. Just to save a couple of min of burning time, and got a coaster?!!
* The reason I bought the Lite-on is for the 99-min overburn capability and their accuracy and not for the speed. If the burner can burn a 80-min CD about 5 min (i.e. 16X), I would be quite happy. My TDK VeloCD 16x10x40 perform nicely for years now, but it only can burn up to 93:59. So the Lite-On is for that last 6-min to 99:59.
* With Smart-Burn, maybe we can burn it faster, but to tell you the truth I never tried when overburn 99-min CD.

A note for overburning using Nero with the Lite-On. You have to burn manually. Do not use the Nero Wizard, because the wizard will stop you to overburn. Why? The wizard check for the media size, and it will see a 80-min CD (even though it's a 90-min or 99-min), and so it will complain when you try to burn it. If you turn off the wizard, and check the overburn selection (in File menu Preferences), it will allow you to overburn.

Speaking of summer movie, this year I do like "Spiderman", "Insomnia", "Changing Lanes" and "Bad Company". The Star Wars movie remind me of last Summer hype "Pearl Harbor", the action sequence is great, but the acting suck big time. Come to think of it, acting in "AOTC" is even worse than in "Pearl Harbor".

Cheers, :)