Getting the best out of CCE?????

[1loser]

I used the guide Getting the best out of CCE (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/cce-advanced.htm) and I think it's the high bitrate that is making the audio break up. If that's the case, the guide should mention that the bitrate needs to be below a certain level.

http://home.san.rr.com/oneloser/toy.story.bitrate.viewer.jpg

[kdiddy]

Your video has no effect on your audio quality in that manner you speak of. If the audi is breaking up its due to these reasons.

1)Poor audio encoding process

2)Overall stream bitrate too high for your DVD player

3)VBV Buffer too high fo your DVD player

[1loser]

Originally posted by kdiddy
Your video has no effect on your audio quality in that manner you speak of. If the audi is breaking up its due to these reasons.

1)Poor audio encoding process

2)Overall stream bitrate too high for your DVD player

3)VBV Buffer too high fo your DVD player

I know very little about encoding but I recently spent a lot of time on the conversion of Toy Story 2 from DivX to SVCD and I must disagree with you. Did you look at the link for the bitrate screen shot I provided? http://home.san.rr.com/oneloser/toy.story.bitrate.viewer.jpg

I made a spread sheet listing the video's highest bitrates and the time. When I played in my DVD player the audio would break up at the exact same places as the high bitrates. Also when I do the conversion with DVD2SVCD the results are perfect, no audio breakup. I also tried 2 completely different audio sources. Tried diferent ways of converting the audio, always with the same results until I lower the bitrate of CCE encoding process.

I am confident that the problem is with the high "video" bitrates. Let's face it the SVCD std is 2500 NOT 7000+!!!

Is there anyone that agrees with me on this?

[TRILIGHT]

I don't know much about SVCD standards but I know they follow the same as DVD when it comes to max bitrate. The max bitrate is the maximum of the video bitrate and all audio track bitrates. For example, if the max bitrate is 2500, you can't set your video bitrate to 2500 and then add a 256kbps audio file, even if the video is VBR. You would have a problem anytime the VBR of the video bitrate went higher than 2256kbps.

[kdiddy]

When I played in my DVD player the audio would break up at the exact same places as the high bitrates

Ok you obviously didn't understand my statement #2 which was...
...
2)Overall stream bitrate too high for your DVD player


This is what is happening here, the the max bitrate for this stream our the total overall bitrate is HIGHER than you DVD player can handle. This is not a result of your video encoding process affecting your audio enocding process. It is simply a matter of 4 + 4 being greater than 7. You overall bitrate is TOO HIGH for your player. If you lower you video by 400 kbps and raised your audio by 400 kbps, you would still have the same problem. This is why Im telling you that it is not the video that is affecting the audio, simply your SUM of the audio/video that is the effect. Yes SVCD standard is OVERALL bitrate (ie, audio bitrate + video bitrate) is max bitrate of ~2500. Some players cant handle bitrates that high & some can. My player can take as high as ~3.2 mbps off a CDR. What you need to do is do some short CBR encodes at 2400,2500, 3000, etc. (total) to see what the max bitrate your player can handle. Thus you will then find out the proper max limit for your player. Since mine is ~3200 kbps, and I encode my audio at 160 kbps, then max bitrate for my video can be no higher than ~3040kbps. Then my SVCD encode settings are as follows:

Video: 3pass VBR min-avg-max = 300kbps - whatever takes to fill the 80 min disk kbps - 3000 kbps.
Audio: 160 kbps
Peak Total Bitrate in Kbps: 160+3000 = 3160, which is less than ~3200.

The other problem is that you did not read that guide carefully. It clearly states,

Please note that this guide is sort of hanging in the air. It will leave you with a DVD compliant MPEG-2 video file and an AC3 file but you can import these in any DVD authoring program and create a DVD-R that can be played in any DVD-R capable device.

It was not intended for SVCD video bitrates. Therefore, since you used in such a manner, you should have known to lower the bitrate constraints appropiately to fit within SVCD specs.

[1loser]

Originally posted by kdiddy


What you need to do is do some short CBR encodes at 2400,2500, 3000, etc. (total) to see what the max bitrate your player can handle. Thus you will then find out the proper max limit for your player.

The other problem is that you did not read that guide carefully. It clearly states,

It was not intended for SVCD video bitrates. Therefore, since you used in such a manner, you should have known to lower the bitrate constraints appropiately to fit within SVCD specs.

Some good advice about finding what my player can handle. I will try that next. I did a conversion of Cinderella 2 and this time I set the max to 5000 on both passes. When I open it in bitrate viewer my max values came out to be 4444 and 4738 for the final video and everything else was much lower. With Toy Story I set the max to 9800 and with bitrate viewer I got max of 6600 and 7000 for the final video. I noticed when playing back that the breakup accorded only when the video bitrate was @ above 5000.

You're right, I didn't read the guide carefully. I'm very bad when it comes to digesting what read, I usually miss the most important points!

Thanks for you patience with me. Really appreciate your help.

[kdiddy]

No problem at all. I looked at my post again, and I realize I may have come off sort of rude. That was not my intent. I glad it seems you did not take it as such and took as a straight forward explanation.

[1loser]

Originally posted by kdiddy
Your video has no effect on your audio quality in that manner you speak of. If the audi is breaking up its due to these reasons.

1)Poor audio encoding process

2)Overall stream bitrate too high for your DVD player

3)VBV Buffer too high fo your DVD player

I didn't read your first comment carefully. I was focusing on your 1st point and didn't want to hear anything about the audio because I spent way too much time determining that the audio by itself wasn't the problem. Also I didn't realize that the combination of audio and video is important to consider and not just the video. Although the audio is usually only 10% of the total it still needs to be considered.

Now I have to search for some answers to problems I'm having with CCE.

Thanks again.

[kdiddy]

Throw them out there, I may be able to help.

[1loser]

Originally posted by kdiddy
Throw them out there, I may be able to help.

thanks for offering to help. I just solved the problem by using the CCR patch for CCE. Is there anything bad about using it? So far it works great to get rid of the crc checking errors.

I like the guide "Getting the best out of CCE", it works great for DivX to SVCD conversion even though it's written for DVD-R's as long as I drop the birate to 6000 to 6500. The final video comes out to be just under 5000 at peaks and my $50 APEX (after rebate) handles the bitrate fine.

Have you used this same guide? Are there other things I should change since it's being used for DivX to SVCD?

[kdiddy]

No I know of nothing bad as a result of the CRC patch. And no, I havent used that particular guide. I do not do any DivX to SVCD conversions, even though I know that is not what the guide was aimed at. But mainly I do not use it because I don't have the desire to devote that much time to it. Im very happy with the results I get from my DVD-rips. I get high quality SVCDs, and if I need that much better quality, then I'll simply purchase the DVD.