Encoding Evangelion ADV dvds

[shu]

I have tried again and again to encode the Evangelion ADV dvds, but its source is extremely interlaced and I cannot find any way to ivtc and deinterlace it without producint a ghost image (like those produced when blending fields for deinterlacing).

I am using avisynth and has tried decomb.dll and greedyhma.dll with the following settings, none of which produces satisfactory results:

decomb:
Telecide(post=true, guide=1)
Decimate(cycle=5)

greedyhma:
GreedyHMA(1,0,3,0,0,0,0)
GreedyHMA(1,0,3,0,1,0,0)
GreedyHMA(1,0,4,0,1,0,0)

I am just wondering if anyone has encoded those dvds, and if so, how did you get it to look good?

[RadicalEd]

I've tried the same, but after IVTC failed I assumed they were true 29.97 fps interlaced images. Perhaps that assumption was premature. Are you positive there are really salvageable progressive frames in eva? I'd check but my hard drive is stuffed and I cant afford to rip them right now. If in fact there are progressive frames in this mess, I can't think of a way to get them back, because as you said ivtc dosent seem to work. hmm.. quite perplexing

[manono]

Hi-

That thing's a mess. It comes already ghosted. Do a SeparateFields and you'll see what I mean. I sent a sample once to neuron2 and he just laughed and said to FieldDeinterlace it. However, it does have salvageable Progressive frames. He later came out with his Mode=1 setting. You might try this:
Telecide()
Decimate(Mode=1,Threshold=50)
But that will also keep it at 29.97fps, but it should look a bit better. You can find out more about Mode=1 in the help file for Decomb.

[DJ Bobo]

Look here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21403
especially my last reply and tell me if it works well.

[shu]

IVTC 2.2 with the settings copied from your [bobotns] thread does not catch alot of the interlaced frames.

As for Mode=1, I think it is a little better, but of course there is alot of ghost images (like in the OP when Shinji's face is moving across the screen).

I'm begginning to think that these EVA sources are just impossible to encode, heh. Yes, they are truly a mess. Not only the weird telecined source, during scene cuts the whole picture moves in a random direction for several pixels then moves back, it is _extremely_ annoying. It also has a lot of noise compared to other animes, I wonder if this is ADV's fault or the original Eva sources (my Eva movie dvds which I bought import does not have the random shifting and are 98% FILM, but that's because they're movies. They also have considerable noise).

[RadicalEd]

Tell you what, in this case I think the best bet is either encoding at 320x240 or just doing an all out deinterlace. I know that sucks, especially for as great as eva is, but it dosent seem like there are many other options as of now. When I finally get around to cleaning out my HDD I'll rip one of these and try a manual ivtc with TMPG, that should reveal any possibilities for a successful ivtc.

[DJ Bobo]

@ shu
Can you please upload 15 seconds from a really messed up scene (I want original VOB) so I can try to find better settings for you?
I havn't those DVDs so I can't experiment on them :(

Notice that there is scenes that seem to be interlaced but are not really interlaced. The Anime that needed the new settings (60,11,110) has after IVTC many frames with interlaced artifacts, but not telecine artifacts, they are interlaced artifacts that are on the frame itself because of bad editing/authoring/capturing or so, so IVTC has done its job correctly.

[shu]

I would like to upload it if I had a suitable place to put a 80 meg zip of the opening vob. I'll go look for one, and I'll contact you once I find a place. Thanks for offering this. :)

Your comment about it being crap not attributed to telecined artifacts but just other artifacts makes sense, the Eva sources, as I mentioned before, doesn't seem to be done very well, shame it's such good content.

[DJ Bobo]

@ shu
Please check your PM Box. I sent you a private message.

[DJ Bobo]

I looked at the frames one by one in Virtual Dub, and I'm sorry, this telecine can't be inverted properly.
In every 5 frames: 1 is intact, 2 are typical telecined frames and 2 are typical *interlaced* frames!
I don't know how they managed to do this, but this is completely wierd.
Sorry to say that, but you will have to keep those fake 30fps :(

[maven]

the movies (end of eva / death & rebirth) are proper 24fps and can be IVTCed, the series should be (but isn't due due bad source / mastering). same happened on the r1 video girl ai dvd (but not as badly).
anyway, what i really wanted to say is: the r2 german release of evangelion (3 dvds w/ all 26eps) has undergone digital post-processing to remove all those jitter at scene changes (it still consists of very odd fields, though)...
and i've posted english dvd-subber scripts for those at scriptclub... ;)

[shu]

bobotns: thank you for looking at it for me, I guess I'll keep them at 30fps.

maven: yes, the movies (the imports I have), doesn't even need to be IVTC'd, just forced film and they work perfectly. If I had money I would buy the Gainax series dvds too and see how they are...

Thank you all for your help!

[Awatef]

Hi,
I'm interested on buying the evangelion DVDs, but I'm not sure which version to buy, so here are my questions:
1) are the german DVDs progressive (PAL speed up) or interlaced (NTSC to PAL conversion)?
2) IVTC doesn't work with the first evangelion US DVD, or doesn't work with all of them?
3) What about australian DVDs, progressive or interlaced?
4) What about the HongKong edition, are the subtitles good? and is it possible to IVTC them?

[maven]

german dvds:
probably can't be ivtc'd (but still look ok on a progressive screen), it's probably not sped up as their sources were most likely 30fps which they converted to 25fps.
also these do NOT have the annoying scene-changer jitter.

australian:
probably similar (?) do r1?

bootleg:
dunno, but they'd have the same sources (i.e. japanese dvd or us dvd) and this the same problems. and the subs usually suck (unless stolen from fansubbers). try to save some money and buy an official license.

[Awatef]

@ maven
Well, in australia they use PAL standard, so I think their release would be different from the US release.

Is there an australian here that can tell for sure if the australian DVDs are progressive or interlaced?

Talking about german DVDs: what do you mean by "look ok on a progressive screen", are there blends or not?
If there is blends, this version won't be any better than the US release I guess, or is it only the first US DVD that won't IVTC properly?!

[Schlumpf]

Hmm, you´ve got quite a good opinion of the german dvd´s it seems, maven.
I found a page, where someone made a few comparisons of the picture quality: Nge - Quality comparison (http://www.christophkirsch.de/nge/anfang.htm)
and I somehow can´t share you enthusiasm about the german release :rolleyes: .
On the other Hand: I didn´t really expect this to be a gorgeus digital transfer, ´cause you can´t expect a clear picture, if they spread 26 Episodes over only 3 DVD-9´s ! >.<

BTW: You can see by the screenshots that this release is indeed de-interlaced (has blends).

[maven]

i'm not having a high opinion of the DVDs as they could've been a lot better, but it's still is very cheap (i got the set for 100euros (new)) and that was / is my main concern (as a student ^_^).
also, blend are bad on screenshots, but not quite as bad when moving...

[Awatef]

@ Schlumpf
You'll be surprised that the quality of the german DVDs is excellent, the size of the episodes varies between 500 and 750MB, but there is almost no artifacting. I think it is because of the picture being quite blurry.
But they are awfully interlaced :o

[Awatef]

@ Schlumpf
The US DVDs were sharpened in purpose through ADV Films.
See the following screenshot:
To the left you have the original image of the german DVD
To the right you have the same image, but sharpened with the "sharpen" filter of VirtualDub. It is about the same as the US DVD image ;)

[lordbelial]

Im encoding the US Evangelion DVDs also. Personally I simply use VDubs deinterlace filter with blend fields together. Although you still see some interlacing you still get a MUCH improved picture after Vdubs deinterlace. And its not just Evangelion. I noticed the same problem with Record of Lodoss War and several other anime DVDs.

[Awatef]

@ lordbelial
Just a thought: try the following avisynth script on your evangelion DVDs and tell me if it works well (you should get 80%~90% smooth playback with it)

LoadPlugin("...\ivtc.dll")
LoadPlugin("...\decomb.dll")
...
ivtc(44,11,95)
FieldDeinterlace()
...

I tried that on a HongKong DVD that was captured from a LaserDisc and that seems to have the same problems as Evangelion and the above mentionned script seems to work quite well.
You can even don't use FieldDeinterlace, as I have the feeling that interlacing lines provide smoother motion than blends.

[EDIT]
use IVTC 2.2 of course (you find it in the download page of doom9)